General/Other - Jax Jax General Discussion

[Poser Paul]

HW is better than Pumped Up. You can take that to the bank

Sir your crazy

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

Sir your crazy

crazy like a fox

 

[Vigilante24]

Wrestler is clearly the best variation. Tbh I feel Heavy Weapons and Pumped Up are tied. Heavy Weapons has the better pressure especially with Gotcha Grab only being -4 (it's probably safer than that tbh) while Pumped Up has a better fullscreen game. Look at Karokelove's guide to Pumped Up zoning mindgames.

For me, im actually a Pumped Up main so ive put some time into this character. I only pick Wrester for certain MUs where I need to get in and fuck shit up. Heavy Weapons I play for casuals. I like the utility that Pumped Up offers:

- 22% armored antiairs with EX Super Gotcha man!! Better than 13%.
- Tho nerfed by 4% (Down from 37% to 33%) Pumped Up still gets most damage off reversal/wakeup EX OH Punch. That is still respectable damage.
- Ive just started using a technique involving dpad and left analog stick to improve my insta air ground pounds as a pad player. Makes them much harder to react to forcing certain characters/players to get a little reckless in neutral to avoid the unblockable.
- OTGs after Uppercuts and Energy Waves on airborne opponents still do good damage making opponents less likely to want to jump. Then back to insta air ground pounds!
- He still gets up to +40% meterless into restand in the corner. Still good damage.
- The restand in the corner may be only +3 but it should still be respected and can still be scary for the opponent. Other than the obvious strategy of using pokes to gain respect and taking advange of the hit advantage, ive had a ton of success breaking armor with D1 EX Super Gotcha (the safer option if not 100% confident with the read) or D1 EX OH Punch. Ive even stuffed Kung Lao's EX Spins (Tempest and Buzzsaw/Hat Trick).

Those are things Pumped Up offers that I like about him over the other variations. I don't think he is useless at all, he is just more of an all around character with some pressure as well as some fullscreen prescence instead of the fast pace in your face 24/7 kind of character. Still the weakest of the 3 variations but he is still Jax. If the player is in sync with the character, I believe the player can fuck shit up with Pumped Up.

 

[RabidMonkey]

If the player is in sync with the character, I believe the player can fuck shit up with Pumped Up.

Exactly,people tend to debate all this nuances and MU analysis about best jax variation (which is wrestler and its mostly applicable in situation when ppl know jax MU and you need to use all of his tool to mix them up) but for your daily-online-random fights: PU Jax kit is all you need.Forget about thick throws and constant pressure,just good ol basic footsies and some PU zoning and you're good.I'm playing Jax PU and Wrestler also but for majority of matches online I find that PU OH reversal damage and restand better options then thick throw,cause you'll rarely use them against ur basic scrubs.

I'm generalizing here pretty much, but as @Vigilante24 said for PU "he is still Jax..", he's basic tool box by itself can be overwhelming if you fight against someone who is "in sync" with him.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Does any one else know that B13 is a string? I've been playing Jax for about 4 months and I just realized that it exists.

 

[RabidMonkey]

Yeah,never used it in a real match,that boot knockdown sounds like a truck hitting a train full speed
Last night i got sledge hammer brutality against annoyingly good A-list JC,oh man felt so good..

 

[EmperorP]

hey guys how do u approach a scorpion matchup it feels like this matchup is hard for jax I don't know how u guy deal with it any help pls

 

[RabidMonkey]

hey guys how do u approach a scorpion matchup it feels like this matchup is hard for jax I don't know how u guy deal with it any help pls

Its hard for me too,you cant be too patient but cant be too aggressive also,almost no jumping,zoning allowed against good scorpions..

Check this out,good overall info on how to handle dem scorps:

MKXL - How To Beat Scorpion (Hellfire) Character Breakdown

How to be a threat in Mortal Kombat XL with: Ninjutsu Scorpion

Not much but can give you some perspective on the MU

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Which variation specifically is giving you trouble? There's significant differences between each of them.

In terms of generic advice, about all there is to play around is his ji3 and his d4. His ji3 has insane priority in the air. Do not contest it. Do not challenge it. Let him do this, and when he lands serve him a DDP into 30%+. There will be a gap after his ji3 and anything else he does. Just to mention, players will adapt to this and do a ji3 to block. If you notice this, you can back walk after a ji3 to start covering more options/get better spacing or just go into raw pressure. You will have to adapt at some level.

His d4 low profiles Jax's f21 so your advancing pressure needs to be reconsidered. This is a really common problem Jax has and characters that are tiny or low profile really well have always given Jax a problem. I consider a few different classes of characters and change my gamplan accordingly: if f21 will hit, abuse that shit. f21 into energy wave or f21 into d1 or f21 into ddp if they are mashing pokes back.
If you can't f21 (scorpion's case) approach with f3. Knees will crush pokes, and it's special cancellable for a DDP (no hit confirm though), or for a command grab if they block the f3. Other than that, just use b3 as a meaty because he gets real low on some wake ups. but most importantly just block low for a second when he's down and bait the ex leg grab or teleport and punish. Scorp players love to unsafe wake up EVERYWHERE especially when they're feeling pressured.

 

[Invincible Salads]

someone mentioned jax has an os involving gotcha grab....what is it?

 

[Osagri]

Wrestler is clearly the best variation. Tbh I feel Heavy Weapons and Pumped Up are tied. Heavy Weapons has the better pressure especially with Gotcha Grab only being -4 (it's probably safer than that tbh) while Pumped Up has a better fullscreen game. Look at Karokelove's guide to Pumped Up zoning mindgames.

For me, im actually a Pumped Up main so ive put some time into this character. I only pick Wrester for certain MUs where I need to get in and fuck shit up. Heavy Weapons I play for casuals. I like the utility that Pumped Up offers:

- 22% armored antiairs with EX Super Gotcha man!! Better than 13%.
- Tho nerfed by 4% (Down from 37% to 33%) Pumped Up still gets most damage off reversal/wakeup EX OH Punch. That is still respectable damage.
- Ive just started using a technique involving dpad and left analog stick to improve my insta air ground pounds as a pad player. Makes them much harder to react to forcing certain characters/players to get a little reckless in neutral to avoid the unblockable.
- OTGs after Uppercuts and Energy Waves on airborne opponents still do good damage making opponents less likely to want to jump. Then back to insta air ground pounds!
- He still gets up to +40% meterless into restand in the corner. Still good damage.
- The restand in the corner may be only +3 but it should still be respected and can still be scary for the opponent. Other than the obvious strategy of using pokes to gain respect and taking advange of the hit advantage, ive had a ton of success breaking armor with D1 EX Super Gotcha (the safer option if not 100% confident with the read) or D1 EX OH Punch. Ive even stuffed Kung Lao's EX Spins (Tempest and Buzzsaw/Hat Trick).

Those are things Pumped Up offers that I like about him over the other variations. I don't think he is useless at all, he is just more of an all around character with some pressure as well as some fullscreen prescence instead of the fast pace in your face 24/7 kind of character. Still the weakest of the 3 variations but he is still Jax. If the player is in sync with the character, I believe the player can fuck shit up with Pumped Up.

Pu is good but not on par with the two other. Iagp is good but does like 6%? Restamd is decent in corner but nothing is guaranteed after it. It's +3 right? The 2 in 12 comes in 11frames so u can break armours that are fast. But I would not go for otg after d2 coz its like 23-24% for a bar and bf2 after d2 does like 22%. Of course if u need the unbreakable dmg its worth it.

 

[EmperorP]

Which variation specifically is giving you trouble? There's significant differences between each of them.

In terms of generic advice, about all there is to play around is his ji3 and his d4. His ji3 has insane priority in the air. Do not contest it. Do not challenge it. Let him do this, and when he lands serve him a DDP into 30%+. There will be a gap after his ji3 and anything else he does. Just to mention, players will adapt to this and do a ji3 to block. If you notice this, you can back walk after a ji3 to start covering more options/get better spacing or just go into raw pressure. You will have to adapt at some level.

His d4 low profiles Jax's f21 so your advancing pressure needs to be reconsidered. This is a really common problem Jax has and characters that are tiny or low profile really well have always given Jax a problem. I consider a few different classes of characters and change my gamplan accordingly: if f21 will hit, abuse that shit. f21 into energy wave or f21 into d1 or f21 into ddp if they are mashing pokes back.
If you can't f21 (scorpion's case) approach with f3. Knees will crush pokes, and it's special cancellable for a DDP (no hit confirm though), or for a command grab if they block the f3. Other than that, just use b3 as a meaty because he gets real low on some wake ups. but most importantly just block low for a second when he's down and bait the ex leg grab or teleport and punish. Scorp players love to unsafe wake up EVERYWHERE especially when they're feeling pressured.

hellfire bro

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Hellfire is more straightforward to fight. Closer to just general run cancel pressure. Learn the + frames (you only have to respect his 214 string on + frames) otherwise you can d1 out of everything. Even armor ddp if you know it can connect and he's poking afterwards.

Be patient in this match up to make sure you are baiting the take downs and teleports, because those lead into really big combos. Same thing goes for the air. Let him jump. There's a good distance where you can actually d2 him out of the air. Also once you corner him, be careful of the wake up teleports. It's just a different bait for oki pressure.

Other than that I don't know what else would be causing problems. Definitely pay attention to what is catching you and try to adapt and adjust. I think hellfire's real ability to open people up are impatience (or not knowing when to push buttons, i.e. any run cancel that doesn't jail) or his really unsafe 50/50.

You can really just be mashing your ddp during any of his fireball cancels just to see if he is jailing appropriately or not. It's pretty easy to catch every mistake they make just because you can mash armor and block again in time to not get hit if he did it right. Just put in the armor input then keep holding block for a sec.

 

[EmperorP]

alright thanks guy's for ur help

 

[thlityoursloat]

214 has a gap between the 1 and 4 so backdash or OH DP that if you can.

 

[EmperorP]

yes am aware of that I always do that bt his jumping kick and the active frames on that aura man it hell

 

[Down 2]

Y

yes am aware of that I always do that bt his jumping kick and the active frames on that aura man it hell

Yea it's his jumping kick that always gets me because I try to do an instant air to air to get a full combo and that kick is so fast it still comes out before my punch. I always try to stay grounded and patient against scorpion and let the player beat themselves up.

 

[Tweedy]

What makes Wrestler better than HW?

HW makes his low options, B3 and 123, both safe. B3 is actually slightly plus so there are mind games there. Am I missing something in Wreslter that's nearly as good as that? The command grab is cool and creates more mind games, but it has dreadful risk/reward, since it's death on whiff and only does 14%. The plasmas also have insanely bad risk/reward. You get to be +7, or you possibly land it, and they can full combo you or just poke you? I'm trying to optimize risk reward out here, friends. At least the command grab gives me over 10%, when I can be full combo punished. The plasma does nothing.

Is the plasma a good tool for getting in, or something?

I'm just so stumped. I've had long talks with Ominous about this and I still don't understand why HW isn't clearly the best. Talk to me.

 

[Indecisive]

What makes Wrestler better than HW?

HW makes his low options, B3 and 123, both safe. B3 is actually slightly plus so there are mind games there. Am I missing something in Wreslter that's nearly as good as that? The command grab is cool and creates more mind games, but it has dreadful risk/reward, since it's death on whiff and only does 14%. The plasmas also have insanely bad risk/reward. You get to be +7, or you possibly land it, and they can full combo you or just poke you? I'm trying to optimize risk reward out here, friends. At least the command grab gives me over 10%, when I can be full combo punished. The plasma does nothing.

Is the plasma a good tool for getting in, or something?

I'm just so stumped. I've had long talks with Ominous about this and I still don't understand why HW isn't clearly the best. Talk to me.

You can make Stuff safe with Wreslter by doing Gotcha grab.
12d3 Mix up is really good
124 Mix up is also really good
Being able to tick thro off of his d1, d1d2, and d3 is really good
Getting more damage with the command grab as an ender is great
The slight Mind game with plasma is decent
Being able to do an unblock move in the nuetral is crazy. Like doing f2 into command grab
Less stamina issues
If you fuck up a rocket cancel you also die-this isequal to wiffing a command grab in some ways
F3 into the grab you only get in wreslter is amazing for putting people back in the corner. Same with the normal command grab.
F3 Tick throw is amazing
Air grab is cute
The tick throws are just really good.

 

[Tweedy]

You can make Stuff safe with Wreslter by doing Gotcha grab.
12d3 Mix up is really good
124 Mix up is also really good
Being able to tick thro off of his d1, d1d2, and d3 is really good
Getting more damage with the command grab as an ender is great
The slight Mind game with plasma is decent
Being able to do an unblock move in the nuetral is crazy. Like doing f2 into command grab
Less stamina issues
If you fuck up a rocket cancel you also die-this isequal to wiffing a command grab in some ways
F3 into the grab you only get in wreslter is amazing for putting people back in the corner. Same with the normal command grab.
F3 Tick throw is amazing
Air grab is cute
The tick throws are just really good.

You can make Stuff safe with Wreslter by doing Gotcha grab.
12d3 Mix up is really good
124 Mix up is also really good
Being able to tick thro off of his d1, d1d2, and d3 is really good
Getting more damage with the command grab as an ender is great
The slight Mind game with plasma is decent
Being able to do an unblock move in the nuetral is crazy. Like doing f2 into command grab
Less stamina issues
If you fuck up a rocket cancel you also die-this isequal to wiffing a command grab in some ways
F3 into the grab you only get in wreslter is amazing for putting people back in the corner. Same with the normal command grab.
F3 Tick throw is amazing
Air grab is cute
The tick throws are just really good.

I understand that messing up a cancel is bad, but that's avoidable. Someone guessing right when you go to command grab them is not.

Wouldn't it be better to just go ham with 50/50s, with half of them being safe and all going for full combos, in HW? Also, doesn't HW have the same frame data on gotcha grab?

Things like F3 tick, 124 tick, 12d3 tick, anything in to plasma, etc, all have really bad risk/reward. I can dig the grappling style but it seems like making launching 50/50s safer should be the way to go on this game.

Btw when you talked about ticks being amazing, I thought of this for some reason.

 

[Indecisive]

I understand that messing up a cancel is bad, but that's avoidable. Someone guessing right when you go to command grab them is not.

Wouldn't it be better to just go ham with 50/50s, with half of them being safe and all going for full combos, in HW? Also, doesn't HW have the same frame data on gotcha grab?

Things like F3 tick, 124 tick, 12d3 tick, anything in to plasma, etc, all have really bad risk/reward. I can dig the grappling style but it seems like making launching 50/50s safer should be the way to go on this game.

Btw when you talked about ticks being amazing, I thought of this for some reason.

How does HW make his 50/50 safer?
OH option is already an OS
123 12 OH dash punch is a risk no matter what you do
I mean if they guess right then oh well. You are playing a command grab character. Sometimes they jump or armor out. THen you get to mix it up with gotcha, dash punch armor, plasma etc
It does have the same frame data on gotcha
The risk reward is fine
Also you don't have to go for plasma in pressure. Its just a nice option and you can hold it to zone slightly.
Jax getting the hard knockdown from command grab is great since it can lead into a armor break situation.
And being able to put them even closer to you mid screen instead of ending in gotcha is amazing

 

[Tweedy]

How does HW make his 50/50 safer?
OH option is already an OS
123 12 OH dash punch is a risk no matter what you do
I mean if they guess right then oh well. You are playing a command grab character. Sometimes they jump or armor out. THen you get to mix it up with gotcha, dash punch armor, plasma etc
It does have the same frame data on gotcha
The risk reward is fine
Also you don't have to go for plasma in pressure. Its just a nice option and you can hold it to zone slightly.
Jax getting the hard knockdown from command grab is great since it can lead into a armor break situation.
And being able to put them even closer to you mid screen instead of ending in gotcha is amazing

123 law cancel is safe. B3 law cancel is slightly plus.

Any attempt to launch off of 123 or B3 in Wrestler, is unsafe.

 

[Indecisive]

123 law cancel is safe. B3 law cancel is slightly plus.

Any attempt to launch off of 123 or B3 in Wrestler, is unsafe.

For a bar you can make it safe and launch in wreslter in the corner.
I know 123 Law is safe and b3 law is plus
One of the points you made was HW makes the 50.50 safe
B2 is still unsafe
123 12 OH is unsafe. It is only making the low safe not the OH. So HW doesn't make the 50/50's he has safe
The best thing HW has is meterless damage. And hit confirming off of f3
Also not enough people do anything about the gap in b34 so it doesn't really matter. I mean it does but its not the biggest deal unless you have fast amor. Since b34 Gotcha breaks some of the amor options.

 

[Tweedy]

For a bar you can make it safe and launch in wreslter in the corner.
I know 123 Law is safe and b3 law is plus
One of the points you made was HW makes the 50.50 safe
B2 is still unsafe
123 12 OH is unsafe. It is only making the low safe not the OH. So HW doesn't make the 50/50's he has safe
The best thing HW has is meterless damage. And hit confirming off of f3
Also not enough people do anything about the gap in b34 so it doesn't really matter. I mean it does but its not the biggest deal unless you have fast amor. Since b34 Gotcha breaks some of the amor options.

I definitely clarified and said that only half of them are safe, in HW.

Which is better than neither being safe. People not doing anything about B34 isn't a point that helps. I play War God and hear people say all the time that his swords are practically safe. That doesn't help me when I play a top player and get punished every time.

I don't understand how F3 law is better than law making B3 plus and 123 a safe hit confirmable launch. F3 law is still unsafe.

The meterless damage is another point for HW, yeah.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Isn't raw B2 unsafe and in HW B2 law can be hitconfirmed into launcher?