Question - Scorpion Scorpions in tournament

[Sage Leviathan]

kiLLtron killed him

That is directly the opposite of what happened.

 

[Kroaken]

I guess, more than anything, it was weird to me because, like Psyren said, he's kinda a poster boy for mkx. Surprised to not see more people (outside of online) that play him because they just love the character.

 

[Slips]

What hell ever happened to Slips? He took shitty MK9 Scorpion to the highest place anyone could have taken that horribly built version and died with Deathstroke in IGAU. Where is he today?

I think the reason why you don't see Scorp doing well in tourney is because he is a GREAT punisher which forces him to play defensive in a very offensive game, and at the same time his armor is bad.

You can try and go offensive with him but his offense leaves him open for counter pressure and since his armor sucks, you're typically best sitting back and trying to guess right on how your opponent tries to get in on you. Especially when you have great counter-zoning, good keep out footsies tools like d4, st.3 and flame aura/Ninjutsu swords, and Scorp punishes hard.

The problem is...this is MKX. You are in the inevitable guess of trying to stop someone from getting in on you in a game that pretty much boils down to a guess between run-in string/poke mixed with run-in jump. Let alone characters with high mobility like air teleports, dive kicks, ect.

It's the same reason why everyone knew pre-patch Quan was out-of-control broke, but he didn't win as often as you thought he would because his armor was ass. It's the same for Scorp. Having decent armor is just too important in a game where it's inevitable your opponent will get in.

 

[Kroaken]

I think the reason why you don't see Scorp doing well in tourney is because he is a GREAT punisher which forces him to play defensive in a very offensive game, and at the same time his armor is bad.

You can try and go offensive with him but his offense leaves him open for counter pressure and since his armor sucks, you're typically best sitting back and trying to guess right on how your opponent tries to get in on you. Especially when you have great counter-zoning, good keep out footsies tools like d4, st.3 and flame aura/Ninjutsu swords, and Scorp punishes hard.

The problem is...this is MKX. You are in the inevitable guess of trying to stop someone from getting in on you in a game that pretty much boils down to a guess between run-in string/poke mixed with run-in jump. Let alone characters with high mobility like air teleports, dive kicks, ect.

It's the same reason why everyone knew pre-patch Quan was out-of-control broke, but he didn't win as often as you thought he would because his armor was ass. It's the same for Scorp. Having decent armor is just too important in a game where it's inevitable your opponent will get in.

This makes a lot of sense. I just didnt know if there were people who just simply loved scorpion.

 

[Mitsuownes]

This makes a lot of sense. I just didnt know if there were people who just simply loved scorpion.

There are, but some love $$$ more

 

[GamerBlake90]

I think its more player preferences. F/T is an example of a completely viable tournament character that people simply don't use because they don't like the character. Scorpion seems pretty viable to me. I mean I've seen Blake lose not because of some cheap character but because of a bad read, better read by the opponent or dropped combo etc.

In some cases, yes, I did make a bad read. In others, the opposing character is just that dumb. *glares at Alien*

On another note, one may ask why would someone like Jagoblake and Eddy Wang or Mistownz (however u spell his name) stick to Scorpion if they know other characters in the roster are more Overpowered/more advantageous to use and better the chances of winning? Well its because when a player knows and is convinced that a character is well built and solid and at least falls in the mid-level category, that is usually enough to satisfy a player who is not a tournament tier whore. I use Scorpion myself and I also use Mileena, Goro, DVorah, Alien, Ermac and Smoke. I know four of the other characters I use are stronger than Scorpion, but I'm happy with Scorpions well built and new buffed state. So its enjoyable to use him because I know I'm not at a complete disadvantage in using him at the casual level.

I stick with Scorpion because I want to be the reason I won my matches. I will never allow character selection to be that reason.

Besides, when you switch characters, you are basically relearning the game from scratch, so it's going to take quite some time to achieve a competitive level of skill with said character, top tier or no.

As for Jagoblake, I was disappointed he shifted to Sonya in MK9, gained back my respect for him with his Batman in IGAU and I still have a space in my heart for him because of the MKvsDC era where his Scorpion was GOD!

Playing Sonya in Mortal Kombat 9 was a mistake I regret to this very day, and it's a mistake I will not repeat.

 

[Kroaken]

@YOMI RM JagoBlake Ya know, you're alright in my book.

 

[GamerBlake90]

@YOMI RM JagoBlake Ya know, you're alright in my book.

A salty asshole like myself is alright in your book? I'm flattered.

For the Shirai Ryu!

 

[Paul the Octopus]

I think the reason why you don't see Scorp doing well in tourney is because he is a GREAT punisher which forces him to play defensive in a very offensive game, and at the same time his armor is bad.

You can try and go offensive with him but his offense leaves him open for counter pressure and since his armor sucks, you're typically best sitting back and trying to guess right on how your opponent tries to get in on you. Especially when you have great counter-zoning, good keep out footsies tools like d4, st.3 and flame aura/Ninjutsu swords, and Scorp punishes hard.

The problem is...this is MKX. You are in the inevitable guess of trying to stop someone from getting in on you in a game that pretty much boils down to a guess between run-in string/poke mixed with run-in jump. Let alone characters with high mobility like air teleports, dive kicks, ect.

It's the same reason why everyone knew pre-patch Quan was out-of-control broke, but he didn't win as often as you thought he would because his armor was ass. It's the same for Scorp. Having decent armor is just too important in a game where it's inevitable your opponent will get in.

For what characters would you say it's the hardest to react to both run ins and jump ins?

Pre patch Kung Lao was the biggest culprit to me, as you had to really focus on j2 to have any chance at anti-airing it. And if you did that there was zero chance you were reacting to the run in f2. Basically, you had to commit to defending one and if he chose the other one the best you can probably do is to just block.

In MKXL, now that KL has been nerfed, I actually don't find this as big of an issue. Off the top of my head, I struggle to think of any characters with pre patch KL's combination of run speed + advancing mid and deadly jump in. Maybe Kung Jin or Sonya are the closest? But not nearly as bad?

 

[Psyren136]

Makes sense. Everyone is making good points.

I've played alot of mid tier fighters that aren't popular in alot of fighting games simply because I loved the character. I don't like playing characters that I'm not really into.

Mitsu put it perfect when he said he would rather lose with a character he loves then win with one he doesn't.

That pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

 

[Slips]

For what characters would you say it's the hardest to react to both run ins and jump ins?

Pre patch Kung Lao was the biggest culprit to me, as you had to really focus on j2 to have any chance at anti-airing it. And if you did that there was zero chance you were reacting to the run in f2. Basically, you had to commit to defending one and if he chose the other one the best you can probably do is to just block.

In MKXL, now that KL has been nerfed, I actually don't find this as big of an issue. Off the top of my head, I struggle to think of any characters with pre patch KL's combination of run speed + advancing mid and deadly jump in. Maybe Kung Jin or Sonya are the closest? But not nearly as bad?

Any character with a pretty fast advancing mid string mixed with a jump in is pretty much a guess. If I see Cage, Cassie, Kotal, D'Vorah, ect. running in I'm either going to use a normal to punish the run in or use my AA to punish the jump in. If I use my normal to punish the run and they jump instead, they are in. If I look for a jump and they run in, I'm lucky if I can block in time.

This is just the bare-bones fundamentals of the footsies game in MKX. Now throw in dive kicks, air teleports, other fast advancing specials and it's a nightmare. All you can really do to keep someone out is throw out stuff and hope they run into it. Because trying to react puts you in this guessing game of run in pressure mixed with run in jump pressure and a bunch of other shit you can't react to. You cannot play footsies and react to jumps at the same time like most 2D games.

 

[God Confirm]

On another note, one may ask why would someone like Jagoblake and Eddy Wang or Mistownz (however u spell his name) stick to Scorpion if they know other characters in the roster are more Overpowered/more advantageous to use and better the chances of winning? Well its because when a player knows and is convinced that a character is well built and solid and at least falls in the mid-level category, that is usually enough to satisfy a player who is not a tournament tier whore. I use Scorpion myself and I also use Mileena, Goro, DVorah, Alien, Ermac and Smoke. I know four of the other characters I use are stronger than Scorpion, but I'm happy with Scorpions well built and new buffed state. So its enjoyable to use him because I know I'm not at a complete disadvantage in using him at the casual level.

I can't speak for the people you mentioned, but I'm pretty sure a lot of us use Scorpion because we DO feel we have the best chance to compete with him. Yes, he has weaknesses, no hes not even a top 10 character, but, he has two very unique designs (Hellfire and Ninjutsu) that suits certain players playstyle more than just picking up Kano and throwing out 50/50s all day. I wouldn't do as well with Alien purely because the character doesn't suit my style. Look at Yagos style of play - you think he would be in his zone using Sonya or someone? There is no other Ninjutsu in this game and no other Hellfire


also, its much more rewarding winning with Scorp than it is a high tier. A. you know your character is fair B. you know to win, you outplayed your opponent fundamentally

 

[IrishMantis]

Any character with a pretty fast advancing mid string mixed with a jump in is pretty much a guess. If I see Cage, Cassie, Kotal, D'Vorah, ect. running in I'm either going to use a normal to punish the run in or use my AA to punish the jump in. If I use my normal to punish the run and they jump instead, they are in. If I look for a jump and they run in, I'm lucky if I can block in time.

This is just the bare-bones fundamentals of the footsies game in MKX. Now throw in dive kicks, air teleports, other fast advancing specials and it's a nightmare. All you can really do to keep someone out is throw out stuff and hope they run into it. Because trying to react puts you in this guessing game of run in pressure mixed with run in jump pressure and a bunch of other shit you can't react to. You cannot play footsies and react to jumps at the same time like most 2D games.

Damn I miss optimistic Slips

Realist Slips is too depressing, keep the truth away from my ears please

I like being delusional

 

[Psyren136]

also, its much more rewarding winning with Scorp than it is a high tier. A. you know your character is fair B. you know to win, you outplayed your opponent fundamentally

I can't agree with this enough. So true. For any character that is mid tier and has fans.

 

[Matix218]

I play Hellfire in US ESL Pro League but I only have played two of the five weeks so far. Lost in 2nd round to Gametime in my first week and lost in 3rd round to DJT in my second week. But I have not attended an offline major since MK9. I use all scorpion though (mainly hellfire but I also play Ninjutsu).

I am surprised that we don't see more scorpions in competition tbh, specifically hellfire since I think an execution heavy player could really make some noise with hellfire.

I personally play scorpion because I love the character. I was a day 1 scorpion main in MKX and he was my primary alt in MK9 (I played smoke in that game and I did compete at several offline Big E majors).

Its a shame that Slips is no longer competing but I totally understand that real life gets in the way and it is just not feasible to have the extra time and money (specifically time) as you get older just is not available like it used to be (I'm 33 and have a wife and son and have not attended an offline tournament since).

But either way we have the European scorpions (JTB, Strykie, Mitsu) and we have Blake and Viking (who I think has a really solid hellfire from the little bits that I have seen) and also Eddy Wang and several others. We also had MIT but he has moved on to other characters.

I think the scorpion forums and group chat are really good and there is very good discussion and information and matchup nuances that are constantly discovered.

 

[Matix218]

I think the reason why you don't see Scorp doing well in tourney is because he is a GREAT punisher which forces him to play defensive in a very offensive game, and at the same time his armor is bad.

You can try and go offensive with him but his offense leaves him open for counter pressure and since his armor sucks, you're typically best sitting back and trying to guess right on how your opponent tries to get in on you. Especially when you have great counter-zoning, good keep out footsies tools like d4, st.3 and flame aura/Ninjutsu swords, and Scorp punishes hard.

The problem is...this is MKX. You are in the inevitable guess of trying to stop someone from getting in on you in a game that pretty much boils down to a guess between run-in string/poke mixed with run-in jump. Let alone characters with high mobility like air teleports, dive kicks, ect.

It's the same reason why everyone knew pre-patch Quan was out-of-control broke, but he didn't win as often as you thought he would because his armor was ass. It's the same for Scorp. Having decent armor is just too important in a game where it's inevitable your opponent will get in.

Good to hear from you Slips!

And yes, I agree the most glaring issue (especially since the game has moved toward more pressure heavy characters like a list, tarkaten and takeda) is absolutely the armor issue. Standing armor guesses are literally NEVER in scorpions favor because takedown is full combo punishable on block or whiff and on hit (although it is plus) only gets you 15 percent. So if you guess right, you get 15 percent and if you guess wrong you lose 30 to 40 percent. That is a major major problem. Like Slips said, quan was way more offensively broken then Scorp could ever be pre patch and he still was not regulating people like you would think he would because of that armor issue, and that was even before armor became even more of a requirement because the pressure characters had not yet started their rise.

 

[God Confirm]

Good to hear from you Slips!

And yes, I agree the most glaring issue (especially since the game has moved toward more pressure heavy characters like a list, tarkaten and takeda) is absolutely the armor issue. Standing armor guesses are literally NEVER in scorpions favor because takedown is full combo punishable on block or whiff and on hit (although it is plus) only gets you 15 percent. So if you guess right, you get 15 percent and if you guess wrong you lose 30 to 40 percent. That is a major major problem. Like Slips said, quan was way more offensively broken then Scorp could ever be pre patch and he still was not regulating people like you would think he would because of that armor issue, and that was even before armor became even more of a requirement because the pressure characters had not yet started their rise.

we have meter building galore, so learn the OS and you will never lose against Tarkatan ever

 

[MK FIGHTER]

Because I love that character and rather lose with him than win with another one.

I totally understand man! Btw, I love your Scorpion.

 

[MK FIGHTER]

I think the reason why you don't see Scorp doing well in tourney is because he is a GREAT punisher which forces him to play defensive in a very offensive game, and at the same time his armor is bad.

You can try and go offensive with him but his offense leaves him open for counter pressure and since his armor sucks, you're typically best sitting back and trying to guess right on how your opponent tries to get in on you. Especially when you have great counter-zoning, good keep out footsies tools like d4, st.3 and flame aura/Ninjutsu swords, and Scorp punishes hard.

The problem is...this is MKX. You are in the inevitable guess of trying to stop someone from getting in on you in a game that pretty much boils down to a guess between run-in string/poke mixed with run-in jump. Let alone characters with high mobility like air teleports, dive kicks, ect.

It's the same reason why everyone knew pre-patch Quan was out-of-control broke, but he didn't win as often as you thought he would because his armor was ass. It's the same for Scorp. Having decent armor is just too important in a game where it's inevitable your opponent will get in.

Good to hear from you, even though you don't know me. I've been a fan of yours since MK9 and since I don't keep up with everyone in the scene I thought you dropped off the map. But good to see you're still around. You're playing in MK9 gave what little hope we Scorpion players had during that time.

 

[Eddy Wang]

For what characters would you say it's the hardest to react to both run ins and jump ins?

Pre patch Kung Lao was the biggest culprit to me, as you had to really focus on j2 to have any chance at anti-airing it. And if you did that there was zero chance you were reacting to the run in f2. Basically, you had to commit to defending one and if he chose the other one the best you can probably do is to just block.

In MKXL, now that KL has been nerfed, I actually don't find this as big of an issue. Off the top of my head, I struggle to think of any characters with pre patch KL's combination of run speed + advancing mid and deadly jump in. Maybe Kung Jin or Sonya are the closest? But not nearly as bad?

Sonya, Cassie, Erron, Kotal, to name a few, these characters can cover ground running so fast that you won't have much time to react to whatever is coming.

 

[Rjsmal]

Well I'm still not that good compared to @YOMI RM JagoBlake @Eddy Wang @OutworldKeith and I must have forgotten more skilled scorpion players sorry for that, but I do main Scorpion Ninjutsu always and this will remain.

I've been holding my foot down for this character since MK1 and I won't stop now.

 

[Eddy Wang]

For what characters would you say it's the hardest to react to both run ins and jump ins?

Pre patch Kung Lao was the biggest culprit to me, as you had to really focus on j2 to have any chance at anti-airing it. And if you did that there was zero chance you were reacting to the run in f2. Basically, you had to commit to defending one and if he chose the other one the best you can probably do is to just block.

In MKXL, now that KL has been nerfed, I actually don't find this as big of an issue. Off the top of my head, I struggle to think of any characters with pre patch KL's combination of run speed + advancing mid and deadly jump in. Maybe Kung Jin or Sonya are the closest? But not nearly as bad?

Sonya, Cassie, Erron, Kotal, to name a few, these characters can cover ground running so fast that you won't have much time to react to whatever is coming.

 

[Tweedy]

kiLLtron killed him

No he didn't. Viking bounced him from the tournament in loser's finals of the pool.

 

[Asodimazze]

So @Kroaken and myself were discussing this earlier.

Why do we not see more scorpion loyalists in tournaments? Most characters have competitive loyalists players, but scorpion you only really see @YOMI RM JagoBlake and @Mitsuownes unless I'm just blind and missing some people.

Anyone got answers as to why we don't see many scorpions in tournaments and the lack of loyalists for the character.

@JINAMOUNAINAI made top 4 in the ESL pro league Europe, and has 2 finals in the EU PS4 Challenger Cup. He also placed 2nd behind Foxy in the monthly finals.

He is representing Scorpion really well

 

[Vjeekes]

IMO @JINAMOUNAINAI and @MAN0 are the best scorpions in EU, and who knows; even beyond...
the only reason these guys didn't win more trofees untill now, is scorpion's strenght by itself.

I'm really happy to have these scorpsluts in my team!!!