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General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

Lil Majin

Raiden Enthusiast
Anyone care to direct me to a place with Master of Trash tech? Thanks.
There was some MOS tech that I used to win against WinterWarz before the XL patch. I'm glad that I didn't share it since it's been removed. The orbs made quite a few attacks completely whiff Raiden if they ate any proximity damage. All jump-ins went right through Raiden if they jumped over an orb to attack him. Kung Lao's db1 would vanish and so would certain weapon attacks like Quan's b2 at a certain distance. I'm not certain if it is gone for good, but it is certainly gone for jump-ins. Coach Steve, WinterWarz, and my Memphis crew were the only people who knew of my MOS glitch/tech. It was *Ninja nerfed* sadly.

The MOS variation requires HEAVY execution and wherewithal to convert off of every activated trap. Same goes for his BnB combos depending on position.

Unfortunately, there isn't much technology for this variation that people don't already know about:

- Throwing people into activated traps, techroll, then bf3 combo.
- Using activated orbs as quick combo breakers

I'm gonna make a quick video about MOS showcasing some small tech.
 

llabslb

R1D1_998
There was some MOS tech that I used to win against WinterWarz before the XL patch. I'm glad that I didn't share it since it's been removed. The orbs made quite a few attacks completely whiff Raiden if they ate any proximity damage. All jump-ins went right through Raiden if they jumped over an orb to attack him. Kung Lao's db1 would vanish and so would certain weapon attacks like Quan's b2 at a certain distance. I'm not certain if it is gone for good, but it is certainly gone for jump-ins. Coach Steve, WinterWarz, and my Memphis crew were the only people who knew of my MOS glitch/tech. It was *Ninja nerfed* sadly.

The MOS variation requires HEAVY execution and wherewithal to convert off of every activated trap. Same goes for his BnB combos depending on position.

Unfortunately, there isn't much technology for this variation that people don't already know about:

- Throwing people into activated traps, techroll, then bf3 combo.
- Using activated orbs as quick combo breakers

I'm gonna make a quick video about MOS showcasing some small tech.
Ah thanks appreciate it
 

Lil Majin

Raiden Enthusiast
Ah thanks appreciate it
Here are some rather meager technologies for MOS:

■ Throwing opponent into activated traps
● Works for both regular and meter burn activated orbs.
● Can't be broken
● Throw must land before the trap activates.


■ Placing orbs out safely in the corner
● Combos must end with 112
● With the right timing, Raiden can place an orb and continue pressure afterwards
□ Make use of the corner with proximity damage since single orbs stay on the screen for 20 seconds
□ If you land a corner combo with an orb already doing prox. damage, then MAKE SURE to end combos with b14 db1 restand. 112 after the restand is NOT interruptable and it's +2 on block


■ Armor breaking with meter burn orbs in the corner
● Same criteria as the safe orb setup.
● Combo MUST end with 112


These are all basic tech for MOS but they are very hard to pull off consistently. Like I said before, this variation requires HEAVY execution. Vicinity Burst cancels are mandatory in the corner and so are the "three f12b2's into bf3" midscreen if you want to maximize this variation.

He can be very deadly in the corner especially if the opponent is eating proximity damage from a single orb and getting pressured at the same time. Just don't be too reckless; be very reactionary to punish jump attempts and whiffs.

It's a struggle but MOS can win if you play the cards you're dealt wisely.
 

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
This is Coach Steve in case people don't know.

But I'm just here to vouch for @Lil Majin that was probably the realest raiden I've ever played. All variations and I learned a lot from that one time we played!
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
HELP ANYONE!

What are you supposed to be doing in the nuetral with Displacer?

He's actually kinda fun, vortex seems easy too.
What should I go for if I don't want to commit to the unsafe 50/50s on b14 restand?
Far tele to big leg
 

Lil Majin

Raiden Enthusiast
This is Coach Steve in case people don't know.

But I'm just here to vouch for @Lil Majin that was probably the realest raiden I've ever played. All variations and I learned a lot from that one time we played!
Thanks man those were good times at RITT5. We definitely learned a lot in such a short amount of time. Many thanks for your kind words and experience. I'm doing my best to become a relevant player in MK and be known as one of the good Raidens out there.
 

supernumian

Triborg Enthusiast
I'm doing my best to become a relevant player in MK and be known as one of the good Raidens out there.
And you are...
I main Displacer Raiden before Triborg came out (not a lot into Thunder God) but you are very ispiring about Displacer/MoS.
How can you land Vicinity Blast cancel so consistently? I just can do that after a njp and stop.
Is there any trick or buffering tech for this?
 

Lil Majin

Raiden Enthusiast
And you are...
I main Displacer Raiden before Triborg came out (not a lot into Thunder God) but you are very ispiring about Displacer/MoS.
How can you land Vicinity Blast cancel so consistently? I just can do that after a njp and stop.
Is there any trick or buffering tech for this?

The Vicinity Blast cancel is tricky because the run cancel window doesn't open until later in the animation. Therefore, you have to hold 2 for quite a time and run cancel while still holding 2. It took me a while to get the timing down but I still drop it occasionally.
 

N00B

Noob
Raiden
neutral game - 2/10
up close game - 6/10
deffense - 5/10
offense - 6/10
mix ups - 6/10
zoning - 3/10
antizoning - 5/10

Not recomended using any of the variations at big tournaments.
Doesnt have a good tool against low profiling.
 

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
Raiden
neutral game - 2/10
up close game - 6/10
deffense - 5/10
offense - 6/10
mix ups - 6/10
zoning - 3/10
antizoning - 5/10

Not recomended using any of the variations at big tournaments.
Doesnt have a good tool against low profiling.
B1? Raiden has decent pokes and displacer is pretty good from what I've seen. I'd maybe give his neutral a 3-4 instead since 2 is a little cruel
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Raiden
neutral game - 2/10
up close game - 6/10
deffense - 5/10
offense - 6/10
mix ups - 6/10
zoning - 3/10
antizoning - 5/10

Not recomended using any of the variations at big tournaments.
Doesnt have a good tool against low profiling.
neutral game - 5/10
up close game - 7/10
deffense - 7/10
offense - 7/10
mix ups - 7/10
zoning - 5/10
antizoning - 7 maybe 8 for displacer/10

He's definitely not a bad character, it's just that almost everyone is designed to be more dumb than him.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
neutral game - 5/10
up close game - 7/10
deffense - 7/10
offense - 7/10
mix ups - 7/10
zoning - 5/10
antizoning - 7 maybe 8 for displacer/10

He's definitely not a bad character, it's just that almost everyone is designed to be more dumb than him.
I'd say his offense is 8/10 because of the massive damage he can do, especially off of B2.
 

Lil Majin

Raiden Enthusiast
neutral game - 5/10
up close game - 7/10
deffense - 7/10
offense - 7/10
mix ups - 7/10
zoning - 5/10
antizoning - 7 maybe 8 for displacer/10

He's definitely not a bad character, it's just that almost everyone is designed to be more dumb than him.
I like your ranking on Raiden. That's a really cool way to rank him. I'll use it and give you my opinionated rank on Displacer for now.

DISPLACER Ranking:

Neutral - 8/10:
The whole premise of Displacer is controlling neutral. His 1 jab, d4, and big leg have good range and his backward walk speed complements those normals. Easily punishes back jumps with bf3 and jump-ins with f1. Furthermore, he can jump-in almost free against most of the cast with jumping 3 into bf3 confirm. D1 is a long ranged mid that can be canceled into far teleport to reset neutral anywhere on the screen save for when opponent in in the corner.

Up Close Game - 10/10
Raiden excels when he is at range 1. His safe 50/50s, 8f mid in b1, and 6f f1 really come into play up close. Raiden has phenomenal buttons up close to deal with everything and with big leg, 1,1,2, f2, and f22+4~teleport all being plus, he can be very hard to attack. Furthermore, with far teleport after strings being near completely safe, he resets the neutral any time he desires. When he corners you, he is on a different level of stupid with corner vortexes, damage, and multiple opportunities for damage. When he gets cornered, he can meterburn teleport to corner and in most cases, punish the opponent as well.

Defense - 10/10
- Punishment: For punishing the punishable, he has a 6f f1, which nets him up to 32% meterless with wall carry. If a move is punishable, then Raiden almost always can punish it, near or far. His whiff punishment is great because of the range and speed of f1 and 1.
- Wakeup Options: Raiden has 5 meterburn moves with armor in Displacer and they all serve their purpose. Meterburn teleport is 99% safe to get him out of almost all oki and it can be used to punish whiffs. Meterburn db3 deals with low profile attacks as well as late set play attacks (ie. Demolition bombs) since he moves vastly forward and upward. Shocker is a hard read because it's both high and punishable, but it's range, speed, and damage are great. Use Vicinity Blast as an anti-air mainly. Again, meterburn teleport is his best.

Offense - 6/10
His offense isn't great because he has to constantly either reset the neutral with far teleport or give the opponent a turn to attack or even punish after a blocked df2. Sans meter, in the corner and only in the corner does Raiden's offense excel because his plus frame followups can't be back dashed and his 50/50s are almost absolute. Furthermore, in the corner, his range on normals really come into play.
*with meter, his offense goes up to 8/10 because of the advantages of meterburn teleport.

Mixups - 8/10
He has 50/50 starters that are safe. They don't hurt much meterless, but they wall carry well and reset neutral on block with far teleport. Controlled teleports are mixups as well. They create confusion coupled with whiffs. With meterburn teleports, he gets more opportunities to mixup. The fact that they have armor forces the opponent to really rethink their offense anytime Raiden has meter.

Zoning - 1/10? Or 10/10?

Anti-zoning - 10/10
Raiden simply cannot be zoned in Displacer. Teleports are too good.

The zoning category is one that needs to be discussed....for Displacer. Far teleports keep opponents away reliably and they control space. Db1 isn't great at all, but it is great filler from max range.
 

Lil Majin

Raiden Enthusiast
Im under the impression that most people here still think Thundergod is his best variation.
You are right with that impression. Thunder God is the variation that Dizzy used to place top 8 all of last year and it's the variation that Nivek is using to place top 5 consistently in EU tournaments.

Thunder God has far better offense because of the many uses of LRC, wall carry, ease of use, and meter gain than Displacer/MOS. Almost every touch WILL put the opponent in the corner. Also, he can net up to two combo breakers in one round with Thunder God even in high level because of that meter gain.

However, the dark side of Thunder God is that he can be zoned, he has to make HARD READS when he uses meter, his meterless damage is nerfed, he can be cornered, and his defense takes a hit (hence, HARD READS). He can't control neutral and after every blocked df2, he is at neutral and negative....using meter to counter offense can be deadly for him if the opponent blocks or evades mb moves.


Displacer excels at everything else. He has more plus moves, bigger damage everywhere outside of the corner, more mixups, better neutral, better defense, and cannot be zoned.

In my opinion, all 3 variations excel against certain players and matchups.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
You are right with that impression. Thunder God is the variation that Dizzy used to place top 8 all of last year and it's the variation that Nivek is using to place top 5 consistently in EU tournaments.

Thunder God has far better offense because of the many uses of LRC, wall carry, ease of use, and meter gain than Displacer/MOS. Almost every touch WILL put the opponent in the corner. Also, he can net up to two combo breakers in one round with Thunder God even in high level because of that meter gain.

However, the dark side of Thunder God is that he can be zoned, he has to make HARD READS when he uses meter, his meterless damage is nerfed, he can be cornered, and his defense takes a hit (hence, HARD READS). He can't control neutral and after every blocked df2, he is at neutral and negative....using meter to counter offense can be deadly for him if the opponent blocks or evades mb moves.


Displacer excels at everything else. He has more plus moves, bigger damage everywhere outside of the corner, more mixups, better neutral, better defense, and cannot be zoned.

In my opinion, all 3 variations excel against certain players and matchups.
Thunder God doing less meterless damage is very debatable. Although I was initially under the impression that Displacer and MoS did better meterless damage, it all depends on what string you use. For instance, meterless, Displacer and MoS get nothing off of B11. In Thunder God you can convert B11 into about 28-30% meterless. You can also get 40% meterless off of B2 in the corner (like 37% if you go for the vortex), whereas Displacer and MoS do something like 35% meterless and ~31% if you go for the vortex. TG can also get ~25% off of B3 without bar midscreen, with Displacer and MoS getting very little off of B3.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
You are right with that impression. Thunder God is the variation that Dizzy used to place top 8 all of last year and it's the variation that Nivek is using to place top 5 consistently in EU tournaments.

Thunder God has far better offense because of the many uses of LRC, wall carry, ease of use, and meter gain than Displacer/MOS. Almost every touch WILL put the opponent in the corner. Also, he can net up to two combo breakers in one round with Thunder God even in high level because of that meter gain.

However, the dark side of Thunder God is that he can be zoned, he has to make HARD READS when he uses meter, his meterless damage is nerfed, he can be cornered, and his defense takes a hit (hence, HARD READS). He can't control neutral and after every blocked df2, he is at neutral and negative....using meter to counter offense can be deadly for him if the opponent blocks or evades mb moves.


Displacer excels at everything else. He has more plus moves, bigger damage everywhere outside of the corner, more mixups, better neutral, better defense, and cannot be zoned.

In my opinion, all 3 variations excel against certain players and matchups.
Ehh I don't know him being zoned and can't control neutral. Raiden's run speed is one of the fastest in the game (I think he's only behind Erron and D'vorah), so getting in is no different than other characters that don't have a teleport. And for his neutral his lightning strings have pretty solid range on them, and he can cancel at any time into a LRC which may not grant him super plus frames but can serve as a mind game against the opponent.

But I agree that Displacer's teleport grants him alot more utility and whatever you said in your last paragraph.
 
True, TG definitely gets more damage from a meterless B11 than the other variations (17 - 21%). If i'm not mistaken I've maxed out B2 meterless in the corner for Displacer at 36% (B2, F2 2+4, 21, F12B2 Shocker). I just enjoy the mobility aspect of getting out of corner and away from mixups with Displacer.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
True, TG definitely gets more damage from a meterless B11 than the other variations (17 - 21%). If i'm not mistaken I've maxed out B2 meterless in the corner for Displacer at 36% (B2, F2 2+4, 21, F12B2 Shocker). I just enjoy the mobility aspect of getting out of corner and away from mixups with Displacer.
You sure that 17-21% shouldn't be 27-31%?