Why this game is so unfair to zoning ?

[ienjoywinning]

Op is right honestly. There is only one good zoner, and that is hqt.

And yeah fuck summoner am i right؟

 

[WakeUp DP]

And that's exactly how it should be.

The bottome line? Nobody should be able to spam projectiles for two minutes and get a win against a decent player. And that's currently the way things are.

Only scrubs use the term spam.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Only scrubs use the term spam.

riiiiiight

 

[Mr.EditUndo]

Aren't there anti zoners?

Characters that zoners cant trade with that are not rush down??

IE : Sub-Zero, Cyrax, Cyber-Sub, D'vorah, Konjurer, Quan,Ermac

 

[WakeUp DP]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

[STRYKIE]

I don't think it's just this game honestly, typically in any NRS game, as a viable zoner you've always still needed very good utility in close quarters to back yourself up.

Noob Saibot in MK9 had alright pure keepaway per se, but also had no armor/invincibility whatsoever, an 8 frame D1 (in a game where 6f D1s were largely the norm), negative on hit mixups, and (except for Jax maybe?) the worst midscreen BNB output in the game.

Cyborg in Injustice arguably had the single best projectile in the game, but literally everything else about him, yeah, the less said, the better.... so the former was irrelevant.

Kenshi, Superman, MMH etc. on the other hand had some of the best buttons in footsies in their respective games. Hell, Freddy had a true unfuzzyable safe 50/50 into around 40% for 1 bar. Food for thought for all the fuckbois that whine about MKX being some unheard of coin flip-fest.

So yeah, as far as zoners getting shafted, it doesn't just happen in this game.

Also, was there something I missed in the last patch of Injustice or something? Cause I don't understand where the talk of defensive options being non-existent in MKX comes from. Defensive options in terms of actually defending yourself are still a huge step up from MK9 if you ask me...

 

[Ares_Supreme]

I have won countless matches as Liu Kang FF and DF just zoning with fireballs. He is one of the best zoners in the game. There are few characters that outzone him. With that said, zoning isn't ever about "spamming" as someone here said and many of my opponents. It's all space control. I use a combo of iafb and low fireball and when they try to jump in back 2 smack into the floor. My issue is I can't zone on the left side of the screen because my inputs are messy lol.

 

[M2Dave]

Hell, Freddy had a true unfuzzyable safe 50/50 into around 40% for 1 bar. Food for thought for all the fuckbois that whine about MKX being some unheard of coin flip-fest.

If you built as much meter in Mortal Kombat 9 as you currently do in Mortal Kombat XL, the 50/50 mix up would be amazing. But any player who played Mortal Kombat 9 at a high level understands that the vast majority of meter that you gained was spent on combo breakers and armored EX special moves. Go ahead and use one bar for your 40% combos. If Cyrax and Smoke touch you without two bars, they will do 80% combos.

Food for thought for anyone who is not a fool.

 

[STRYKIE]

If you built as much meter in Mortal Kombat 9 as you currently do in Mortal Kombat XL

Considering the lack of a chip scaling mechanic in MK9, any attack that did at least 5% on hit automatically rounded to 2% chip, in MKXL you would need a normal to inflict 10% on hit for the same effect (in fact, ARE there any 10% normals in the game currently?), not to mention staggerable moves that didn't end your turn generally weren't tied to a resource, so I highly doubt what you're suggesting is statistically true.

But this probably isn't worth explaining to someone who is diagnosed with a phobia of the "basic attacks" section of the move list.

 

[Metzos]

When Mystic Ermac was shown in MKX i was hyped af.

Then the game was released, i was like "i cant wait to see what i can do with him, especially now that he has 50/50s".

Then i saw the frame data block advantage on his ONLY zoning tool, especially in a game which has a run feature and heavily favors rushdown. People were punishing my max range blocked TKP's with trance, ex teleport, etc.

Then you have Kenshi, a character whose all 3 variations (except probably Kenjutsu) are almost pure zoning.

Summoner QC, Cybernetic Kano and Kitana were the only true zoners in MKX before KP1 hit. Even MoS Ermac could zone better than Mystic Ermac for example, in most ways.

Then HQT Predator came. I m lost for words... The only issue this character has, is a lack of a solid wake up attack, thank god.

Mystic's TKP should have been like it was in beta, -14f on block or something like that. Either that, or NRS should have given him a regular projectile. Kenshi's tele flurry should have much less recovery on whiff. Its a high hitting move ffs, work your way in.

Since in MKX, the majority of the cast has long range reaching normals and the game has a run feature, zoners would actually have to think more than just "spam" as people might say.

Instead, you have HQT Predator pewing pewing you from fullscreen and there is shit you can do about that and when he comes in your face, you have to face his still very good and very solid pressure.

Ffs, even A-list JC has a solid af projectile, for no reason at all. If you take into consideration that:

His d4 low profiles true mids, which he can whiff punish afterwards with heavy damage.

Has an anti-zoning special move (EX-Shadow Kick), which is safe on block.

His pressure up close is S-tier.

Bottom line: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU GIVE HIM AN ALMOST GODLIKE PROJECTILE AS WELL?! Makes no sense to me at all.

OP is right, there are pure zoners in this game, who cannot zone for shit and there are rushdown characters who have zoning and anti-zoning tools at their disposal.

 

[Classic Malt]

I like a little bit of both zoning and rush down at the end of the day you'll have to adapt that's where having a pocket character will help

I guess Tremor would fit in that department, especially Aftershock.

 

[ienjoywinning]

When Mystic Ermac was shown in MKX i was hyped af.

Then the game was released, i was like "i cant wait to see what i can do with him, especially now that he has 50/50s".

Then i saw the frame data block advantage on his ONLY zoning tool, especially in a game which has a run feature and heavily favors rushdown. People were punishing my max range blocked TKP's with trance, ex teleport, etc.

Then you have Kenshi, a character whose all 3 variations (except probably Kenjutsu) are almost pure zoning.

Summoner QC, Cybernetic Kano and Kitana were the only true zoners in MKX before KP1 hit. Even MoS Ermac could zone better than Mystic Ermac for example, in most ways.

Then HQT Predator came. I m lost for words... The only issue this character has, is a lack of a solid wake up attack, thank god.

Mystic's TKP should have been like it was in beta, -14f on block or something like that. Either that, or NRS should have given him a regular projectile. Kenshi's tele flurry should have much less recovery on whiff. Its a high hitting move ffs, work your way in.

Since in MKX, the majority of the cast has long range reaching normals and the game has a run feature, zoners would actually have to think more than just "spam" as people might say.

Instead, you have HQT Predator pewing pewing you from fullscreen and there is shit you can do about that and when he comes in your face, you have to face his still very good and very solid pressure.

Ffs, even A-list JC has a solid af projectile, for no reason at all. If you take into consideration that:

His d4 low profiles true mids, which he can whiff punish afterwards with heavy damage.

Has an anti-zoning special move (EX-Shadow Kick), which is safe on block.

His pressure up close is S-tier.

Bottom line: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU GIVE HIM AN ALMOST GODLIKE PROJECTILE AS WELL?! Makes no sense to me at all.

OP is right, there are pure zoners in this game, who cannot zone for shit and there are rushdown characters who have zoning and anti-zoning tools at their disposal.

Agreed , #makemysticgreatagain !

 

[The_Tile]

Summoner Quan Chi's zoning just got better because of the fact that there's a new mindgame with delayed/non-delayed rune and his zoning game was very strong already.

Everyone keeps saying this like it's a good thing, but if you even delay it just slightly the second hit will whiff and your opponent just drops leaving you at - frames.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Everyone keeps saying this like it's a good thing, but if you even delay it just slightly the second hit will whiff and your opponent just drops leaving you at - frames.

Well, that only works on hit so seems like ya'll will have to hitconfirm it now.

 

[VerminatorX]

Use blocking system kappa.

 

[omooba]

I dont understand it :/ Why this game favors so much one playstyle ? Few characters in this game which can space control well are weak upclose but on the other hand many rushdown characters are given tools to counter zone or teleport.
Why is that ? How i am supposed to zone effectively if my oponent can counter it well or teleport and if he gets in I have no tools ( or weak tools ) to counter his pressure and mixups ?
On top of that any good zoning often gets pre nerfed in case its " too good".

This game have so strong anti zoning that I think even mk9 kenshi would not be that good in mk xl anymore lol

i can think of liu and maybe pred(not really) but other than that no one excels at both

 

[supernumian]

Ffs, even A-list JC has a solid af projectile, for no reason at all. If you take into consideration that:

His d4 low profiles true mids, which he can whiff punish afterwards with heavy damage.

Has an anti-zoning special move (EX-Shadow Kick), which is safe on block.

His pressure up close is S-tier.

Bottom line: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU GIVE HIM AN ALMOST GODLIKE PROJECTILE AS WELL?! Makes no sense to me at all.

OP is right, there are pure zoners in this game, who cannot zone for shit and there are rushdown characters who have zoning and anti-zoning tools at their disposal.

The fact that A-List Cage can zone better then the real zoners in the game, always seems stupid to me.

 

[The_Tile]

Well, that only works on hit so seems like ya'll will have to hitconfirm it now.

Hitconfirming a full screen projectile with no travelling frames within a few frames of seeing it hit. Funny joke.

Off strings it's possible to confirm but you can't confirm a raw rune, any delay at all and the opponent drops so Quan is actually having to make a guess on whether it hits or not with every full screen rune he throws out. Which means his zoning took an unnecessary hit and not a buff.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Hitconfirming a full screen projectile with no travelling frames within a few frames of seeing it hit. Funny joke.

Off strings it's possible to confirm but you can't confirm a raw rune, any delay at all and the opponent drops so Quan is actually having to make a guess on whether it hits or not with every full screen rune he throws out. Which means his zoning took an unnecessary hit and not a buff.

I mean not MBing it on hit. If you are going to delay it and see it hit, just don't press the MB button. If you are going for the non-delayed version then do it no matter if it hits or not.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Cyrax isn't the best at zoning id put him around mid tier for zoning

his bombs have 106 startup with recovery at 73, so thats not to great in the zoning department.

but with his normals added in with that id say he is more of a space control setup artist.

so my list would be from (kindof in order) Space control/Zoners

Leatherface - Pretty Lady
Quan Chi - Summoner, Warlock, Sorcerer
Shinnok - Bone Shaper, BS, Imposter (actually got a lot better)
Predator - Hish Qu Ten
Mileena - Piercing
Kitana - Royal Storm, Mournful
Sektor - LK-9T9
Alien - Acidic, Konjurer
Liu Kang - Flame Fists, Dragons Fire
Jacqui - Full Auto, Shotgun
Kenshi (is acutally very goos at zoning, just struggles with space control
Erron Black - Gunslinger
Ermac - Mystic
Tremor All variants have some sort of Zoning and space control
Kano - all but commando have decent zoning
Cyrax - LK -4D4 (His bombs are along the lines of Sonya Demo's frag grenades without detonate!)
Sonya - Demolition
Cyber Sub Zero - LK-520 (has great Space control, his F2 his bombs that puddle, the dive kick)
Sub Zero - Grandmaster - has great Space Control and ok Zoning

 

[The_Tile]

I mean not MBing it on hit. If you are going to delay it and see it hit, just don't press the MB button. If you are going for the non-delayed version then do it no matter if it hits or not.

I suppose, that cuts his full screen damage even more than the damage scaling that's already in place.

Maybe I'm biased and I know he's not dead or anything, I just feel he was dealt with in the completely wrong way.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I suppose, that cuts his full screen damage even more than the damage scaling that's already in place.

Maybe I'm biased and I know he's not dead or anything, I just feel he was dealt with in the completely wrong way.

Idk, Quan players said they were fine with having to spend a bar on a MB bat to use his mix-ups, he has to use a bar on EX trance to use them now, I can't find the difference and he got a faster MB skydrop now which is still eh but at least it's useful.

 

[ABACABB]

When Mystic Ermac was shown in MKX i was hyped af.

Then the game was released, i was like "i cant wait to see what i can do with him, especially now that he has 50/50s".

Then i saw the frame data block advantage on his ONLY zoning tool, especially in a game which has a run feature and heavily favors rushdown. People were punishing my max range blocked TKP's with trance, ex teleport, etc.

Then you have Kenshi, a character whose all 3 variations (except probably Kenjutsu) are almost pure zoning.

Summoner QC, Cybernetic Kano and Kitana were the only true zoners in MKX before KP1 hit. Even MoS Ermac could zone better than Mystic Ermac for example, in most ways.

Then HQT Predator came. I m lost for words... The only issue this character has, is a lack of a solid wake up attack, thank god.

Mystic's TKP should have been like it was in beta, -14f on block or something like that. Either that, or NRS should have given him a regular projectile. Kenshi's tele flurry should have much less recovery on whiff. Its a high hitting move ffs, work your way in.

Since in MKX, the majority of the cast has long range reaching normals and the game has a run feature, zoners would actually have to think more than just "spam" as people might say.

Instead, you have HQT Predator pewing pewing you from fullscreen and there is shit you can do about that and when he comes in your face, you have to face his still very good and very solid pressure.

Ffs, even A-list JC has a solid af projectile, for no reason at all. If you take into consideration that:

His d4 low profiles true mids, which he can whiff punish afterwards with heavy damage.

Has an anti-zoning special move (EX-Shadow Kick), which is safe on block.

His pressure up close is S-tier.

Bottom line: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU GIVE HIM AN ALMOST GODLIKE PROJECTILE AS WELL?! Makes no sense to me at all.

OP is right, there are pure zoners in this game, who cannot zone for shit and there are rushdown characters who have zoning and anti-zoning tools at their disposal.

Or cassie with her air guns and s-tier pressure game .
Now look at pretty lady , good zoning game but horrible upclose -NO mids ,slow as f**k . Is that fair ?

 

[ienjoywinning]

Idk, Quan players said they were fine with having to spend a bar on a MB bat to use his mix-ups, he has to use a bar on EX trance to use them now, I can't find the difference and he got a faster MB skydrop now which is still eh but at least it's useful.

The diffirence is that they're willing to a -68 ish move on block lol , if they did it in trance or ex rune there would be no risk. Anyways i think a really good change for summoner is to remove the cooldown on bat , i dont see it being a huge problem due to his noticeably weak offense and weaker zoning now.


His ex skydrop gets broken by stuff like subs b12 (b1 hitting him and 2 hitting him again mid air) its pretty bad to be fair (as a wakeup)

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

The diffirence is that they're willing to a -68 ish move on block lol , if they did it in trance or ex rune there would be no risk. Anyways i think a really good change for summoner is to remove the cooldown on bat , i dont see it being a huge problem due to his noticeably weak offense and weaker zoning now.


His ex skydrop gets broken by stuff like b12 (b1 hitting him and 2 hitting him again mid air) its pretty bad to be fair (as a wakeup)

well, i barely see any QC do trance on block, they always do it for a restand after a combo so yeah, there's no difference at all.