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General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
jokey77 said:
The discussion is shifting the way it should: no more talk about the vortex, but about frametraps and pressure in general.
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What frame traps tho? Nearly every string that is plus has a gap. SB is +8 but only 2 strings safely cancel into it, with one of the options having a gap. Nothing really to talk about...

His pressure is good tho. F1 is a good footsie tool. Safe staggers with the 1 string. Safe pressure for the most part.

I don't see why we can't talk about the vortex. It's clearly his strongest tool. Just because it has a gap doesn't mean it's not something we can't use. This game thrives on 50/50s and smoke has one that is continous. Why not use it?
 
shura30

shura30

Shura
one of the main problems i've noticed while trying opening people up is rsmoke doesn't have an armored move to punish their retaliation
ex teleport seem to be the only option but you can't really bait and punish a poke

beside the argument in his gaps or hit levels once you SB it's their turn and most of the cast has pressure and an armored launcher to catch retaliations
there's no way to scare them from pressing buttons
and I believe it'll be the issue in the long run
 
Red Hood MKX

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
Anyone know the actual frames on ex teleport i catch people all the time with it like if read a far jump or if i see them crouching alot ill just throught it out but usually it try to do it on a read. It looks like its a fast overhead even faster than b1
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
xKhaoTik said:
What frame traps tho? Nearly every string that is plus has a gap. SB is +8 but only 2 strings safely cancel into it, with one of the options having a gap. Nothing really to talk about...

His pressure is good tho. F1 is a good footsie tool. Safe staggers with the 1 string. Safe pressure for the most part.

I don't see why we can't talk about the vortex. It's clearly his strongest tool. Just because it has a gap doesn't mean it's not something we can't use. This game thrives on 50/50s and smoke has one that is continous. Why not use it?
Click to expand...

Because right now it's meter dependant and gender specific, I just don't think he gets enough damage from the vortex to make it the high light of the character. Butcher leatherface has 50/50 vortex but he gets 35-40% every touch, plus threat of a command grab. Smoke gets higher 20s maybe and has to spend a bar to combo from one option. Let's not forget he can get armored out if he commits to smoke bomb.
 
jokey77

jokey77

Character Loyalist
xKhaoTik said:
What frame traps tho? Nearly every string that is plus has a gap. SB is +8 but only 2 strings safely cancel into it, with one of the options having a gap. Nothing really to talk about...

His pressure is good tho. F1 is a good footsie tool. Safe staggers with the 1 string. Safe pressure for the most part.

I don't see why we can't talk about the vortex. It's clearly his strongest tool. Just because it has a gap doesn't mean it's not something we can't use. This game thrives on 50/50s and smoke has one that is continous. Why not use it?
Click to expand...
You show some profund knowledge so I explain my opionion:

I suggest to avoid the vortex because you risk eating a jip~fullcombo for getting like what ... 22~restand? The risk/reward factor simply sucks.

I do agree with the rest of your post though: f42 catches opponents that jump after exBomb. F21 opens up the superior mindgames.

shura30 said:
one of the main problems i've noticed while trying opening people up is rsmoke doesn't have an armored move to punish their retaliation
ex teleport seem to be the only option but you can't really bait and punish a poke

beside the argument in his gaps or hit levels once you SB it's their turn and most of the cast has pressure and an armored launcher to catch retaliations
there's no way to scare them from pressing buttons
and I believe it'll be the issue in the long run
Click to expand...
I try to use d1 into fade away. But yes, this is his major flaw and another reasom to not look for close combat (vortex distance), but to zone the opponent out.
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
xKhaoTik said:
It is. F1 jails and f1 is 8f
Click to expand...

I've only gotten f1 to jail out of the far bomb, which allows smoke to recover right before the SB disappears.

I think ex SB is like +10 or 11 because f2 will trade with 7frame normals. Either that or f2 starts up faster than listed.
 
shura30

shura30

Shura
jokey77 said:
I try to use d1 into fade away. But yes, this is his major flaw and another reasom to not look for close combat (vortex distance), but to zone the opponent out.
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even tho it's day 3 but rsmoke doesn't strike me as a zoner
projectile trades aren't mk9 tier, since the stun you get from most is enough to let the opponent fall to the ground into quickstand
SB is slow and the opponent can run in on reaction, changing the direction isn't working for me either
the teleport is meh, it's slow and can't be used on reaction, full punishable. he should be able to cancel it, not for pressure but to stay safe (takeda-like)

to me, the meta is stagger into 50/50, exSB and in the future baiting people trying to abuse gaps
 
Gixxerkid66

Gixxerkid66

ChadtheDad412
As a smoke loyalist in mk9 who picked up scorpion in mkx because smoke was absent I was thrilled when triborg released....but instead I feel like i have to work so much harder with smoke to do pretty much the same stuff I do easily with scorpion. O well
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
So not sure if it's been said but f2 is listed as a high but hits mid. So which is it because I've had my f2 get whiffed a few times on low poking opponents
 
MajinBerserker

MajinBerserker

My power equals yours!
Harlequin969 said:
So not sure if it's been said but f2 is listed as a high but hits mid. So which is it because I've had my f2 get whiffed a few times on low poking opponents
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In Training Mode, what does it display on screen when you hit a solo F2? I mean, I'd just go by that, really. And set the dummy to neutral Duck, no blocking. If F2 whiffs, it's a High, no question. Hits, then Mid and some low pokes may just fuck with it (wouldn't be the only one in the game).
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
EMPEROR PRYCE said:
I don't think smoke is a vortex character. He has a vortex, but one option you can't combo from meterlessly and out of both options you have holes that are easy af to expose.

He has some of the best whiff punishes in the game and that's also where he gets his most damage.

I kind of feel like he's similar to takeda in that regard, has decent mix up potential, but plays the footsie game better.
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?

He has a low starter and a OH starter. Both starters lead into a combo that leaves the opponent standing. He can then use many options that leave him at enough advantage to do a low/OH that puts us right back at square one. If that doesn't describe a vortex character, then idk what does.

Everything else you mentioned is true, which helps him alot at scoring the vortex.

And I tried that f21 ex invisibility thing. I'd much rather do a vortex lol
 
Red Hood MKX

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
xKhaoTik said:
?

He has a low starter and a OH starter. Both starters lead into a combo that leaves the opponent standing. He can then use many options that leave him at enough advantage to do a low/OH that puts us right back at square one. If that doesn't describe a vortex character, then idk what does.

Everything else you mentioned is true, which helps him alot at scoring the vortex.

And I tried that f21 ex invisibility thing. I'd much rather do a vortex lol
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Totally agree with you but hey if some of these smoke players dont want to use the vortex why argue with them, If they don't want to use the chatacters best option then f$!# em its there lost lol
 
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