Tech - Unstoppable Unstoppable Tech and Strategy Discussion

[Jhonnykiller45]

It's hard to say because he is one of those variations who epitomizes the notion of there being a very fine line between being below average and being awesome. (i.e. He could easily be turned into a monster if his tools were tweaked too aggressively)

However, as it stands, he is easily Jason's worst variation. For starters, I'd like to see the duration of his damage buff increased significantly. I've always felt it was way too short. I'd also like to see him get more health back from his heal. But again, NRS would have to be careful. (Maybe 8% instead of 5%?)

Yeah I see what you mean. Honestly any buff would be good right now I think.

 

[Alien Substance]

Personally, I find that the most useful MKX character forums on this site are the ones that have an active, dedicated thread for each variation. As a result, I wanted to create a thread for my current, personal favorite Jason variation: Unstoppable. Please feel free to post all ideas, tech, strategy, quirks, bugs, highly impractical buff combos, etc. etc, which pertain exclusively to Jason's Unstoppable variation, in this thread.

So, I'll start things off by focusing on something that will undoubtedly be crucial for playing Unstoppable Jason optimally as the MKX metta evolves: Getting his two, unique buffs ("punishment" - damage and "rise" - self healing) out safely on the screen. The following are attacks with enough hit advantage to get both buffs out safely - The regular version of each buff has 44 recovery frames and the ex version of each buff has 38 recovery frames:

The frame data says that the normal Rise and Punishment buffs have 46 frames of recovery.

B2 (hit advantage: 53, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
F3 (hit advantage: 48, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
F2 (hit advantage: 34, ex-versions are safe)

24 (hit advantage: 54, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
23 (hit advantage: 53, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
B122 (hit advantage: 46, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
F44 (hit advantage: 42, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
32D1 (hit advantage: 37, ex-versions are safe)
32U1 (hit advantage: 35, ex-versions are safe)

J2,J3,and J4 (hit advantage: 46, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
NJ 1,2 ( (hit advantage: 51, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
NJ 3,4 (hit advantage: 35, ex-versions are safe)

IMO, F44 and F3 are two of your best options, because:
1) Both have awesome range and
2) Both are safe on block
3) F4 hits low and F3 hits overhead.

1. I'm not sure if you knew, but you can add "cancel advantage" to the "hit advantage". It works in the same way as a B2 canceled into a TS command grab and the like.

For instance, the 3,2 string has a hit advantage of 25 and a cancel advantage of 27, and together, that makes +52. Jason is able to execute Punishment/Rise safely with 3,2xxBuff.

This also means that B2's hit advantage of 53 is increased by 24 when canceled into a buff. (77 - 46 = 31.) Jason is left at good frame advantage for the opponent's knockdown, so we can do things like this:

(In case the embed doesn't work, click on this hyperlink.)

(I haven't looked at the other Relentless thread, so I've no idea if they've got this all figured out already.)

2. At this point in time, Punishment's short duration means that longer combos are out of the question in almost all situations. I like to use Punishment for getting a burst of extra damage from shorter combos. EX Back Breaker (D,B,F,1) has Jason perform two damaging hits very quickly. Inflicting 25% damage (a quarter of a health bar) from one armored command grab is delightful.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Aaaaalrighty guys, the tech that I had theorised is true! Jason has setups where he can cut his combo short, then cancel into DD3 then do a meaty attack to armour break the opponent. If the opponent (Testing with Retiles EX Slide) does NOT tech roll then there are setups where you can get a B1 to hit meaning you can just throw out B1~ExDBF2 and on hit or block you'll get the command grab. If Reptile tech rolls then the best I could find I think was D1 to armour break. The only away to escape this is to delayed wakeup (you can blow them up for this on a read) or to jump after blocking the B1. However you can beat that by doing B122 for a full combo, of course. Basically you can't wakeup against Unstoppable in the corner. You need to guess to get out. Luckily for most opponents, B3D1 isn't a HKD and is only a splat so they can still tech roll.

I'm soon going to work on a list of combos and enders that allow you to beat certain speeds of wakeup attacks after tech rolling with B1/B3. Characters with slower wakeups will have a tough time against Unstoppable in corner. Set, god damn, play.

 

[Percimon]

It seems, that Unstoppable gonna have some cool anti-wakeup tech, frametraps and setups:

 

[KeyserSoze]

Guys, corpse walk (ex-rise) now has 26 recovery frames instead of 38. So, not only does it give back more health (9% instead of 5%), but it is even easier to get the screen safely.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Yeah - Unstoppable is much, much better

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Yeah - Unstoppable is much, much better

Great!

 

[Alien Substance]

Yay for 26 frames of Corpse Walk! (The second combo seems strict on the timing, though.)

@KeyserSoze
@GGA Jeremiah
@Scott The Scot
@Percimon

 

[Scott The Scot]

Yay for 26 frames of Corpse Walk! (The second combo seems strict on the timing, though.)
*
@KeyserSoze
@GGA Jeremiah
@Scott The Scot
@Percimon

Yoooo!! This is a game changer! I find it easy to land B2 in the neutral so I can't wait. It offers a lot more damaging setups for you to have the damage buff on when comes to Oki. This is great. Great find!

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Yeah I knew you could combo into ex heal and continue the combo at least in the corner. But knowing it can work mid screen too is good. I used to think that the new ex heal was garbage. Now I think it is just bad but ok to use in some rare instances. I think the instance would be when you have like 4% health left and you are worried about getting chipped out. But then that 1 bar of meter could have turned into 10% more health on resurrect. Yeah I am going to have to think about ex heal for awhile and see when to use it and when not to use it.

I am leaning towards it being the worse choice over most options though.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Yeah I knew you could combo into ex heal and continue the combo at least in the corner. But knowing it can work mid screen too is good. I used to think that the new ex heal was garbage. Now I think it is just bad but ok to use in some rare instances. I think the instance would be when you have like 4% health left and you are worried about getting chipped out. But then that 1 bar of meter could have turned into 10% more health on resurrect. Yeah I am going to have to think about ex heal for awhile and see when to use it and when not to use it.

I am leaning towards it being the worse choice over most options though.

Can't you just replace heal with the damage buff? It allows Jason to get damage buff + more damaging combo into a better Oki setup where he can do meaty B1.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Can't you just replace heal with the damage buff? It allows Jason to get damage buff + more damaging combo into a better Oki setup where he can do meaty B1.

Exactly. I think doing nothing, finishing combo and calling out damage buff, or finishing combo and calling out regular heal all can be argued as being better than EX heal.

EX heal is probably the right choice 1% of the time.

Edit: Or did you mean do a combo and call out ex damage and then continue combo? I don't think you have enough frames for that.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Also don't know if this is known or not, but if you apply your X-Ray even the instance before your damage buff falls off the X-Ray gets the FULL damage buff to it.

Regular X-Ray 32%
Punishment X-Ray 43%
Rampant X-Ray 48%

Rampant X-Ray is actually possible now because it lasts 10 seconds but the setup is strict. Something like have heal on which will build meter, then pop Rampant, then maybe the opponent blocks a jip and you do 1,1,1,bf1 and then like 1 more thing and you can X-Ray right before Rampant falls off and do the 48% damage. Not practical but good to know.

But the Punishment X-Ray is Viable all the time.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Exactly. I think doing nothing, finishing combo and calling out damage buff, or finishing combo and calling out regular heal all can be argued as being better than EX heal.

EX heal is probably the right choice 1% of the time.

Edit: Or did you mean do a combo and call out ex damage and then continue combo? I don't think you have enough frames for that.

I mean doing EX Buff mid combo since it will allow you to end with something that gives you an easy time breaking armour/tick throw option select or whatever you want to do whilst doing more damage.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

I mean doing EX Buff mid combo since it will allow you to end with something that gives you an easy time breaking armour/tick throw option select or whatever you want to do whilst doing more damage.

Yes. That is what I am talking about. EX heal is pretty garbage when you think about it. EX damage buff almost always the better call over EX heal.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Yes. That is what I am talking about. EX heal is pretty garbage when you think about it. EX damage buff almost always the better call over EX heal.

I don't think I've ever used EX Heal, I always use Buff over heal.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I mean doing EX Buff mid combo since it will allow you to end with something that gives you an easy time breaking armour/tick throw option select or whatever you want to do whilst doing more damage.

Technically, you can't ever do ex-buff mid combo (i.e. it has too many recovery frames to follow up with anything before the combo ends), you can only do it at the end of a combo, but your point is well taken.

 

[KeyserSoze]

And yes, rampant is a much, much more useful move than corpse walk.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Technically, you can't ever do ex-buff mid combo (i.e. it has too many recovery frames to follow up with anything before the combo ends), you can only do it at the end of a combo, but your point is well taken.

Watch Alien Substance's video. You literally can do it mid combo. B2~Ex Buff, D1 blah blah.

 

[RiBBz22]

Oh sorry I think I might be in the wrong place. I read unstoppable tech and thought this was probably a Cyber Sub Zero thread.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Oh sorry I think I might be in the wrong place. I read unstoppable tech and thought this was probably a Cyber Sub Zero thread.

... in the Jason forum? You need to check your eyes.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Watch Alien Substance's video. You literally can do it mid combo. B2~Ex Buff, D1 blah blah.

Alien substance's video shows that you can do CORPSE WALK (ex heal) mid combo, not RAMPANT (ex damage buff).

Remember, while corpse walk only has 26 recovery frames, rampant still has 37.

Edit: From the context of your posts, you were obviously talking about the damage buff, no?

 

[RiBBz22]

... in the Jason forum? You need to check your eyes.

facepalm.gif

 

[KeyserSoze]

... in the Jason forum? You need to check your eyes.

Haha - you need to check your sarcasm meter

 

[Scott The Scot]

Alien substance's video shows that you can do CORPSE WALK (ex heal) mid combo, not RAMPANT (ex damage buff).

Remember, while corpse walk only has 26 recovery frames, rampant still has 37.

Edit: From the context of your posts, you were obviously talking about the damage buff, no?

I thought Buff and Heal were the same frame data wise but the effects were different.