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Tech - Unstoppable Unstoppable Tech and Strategy Discussion

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Personally, I find that the most useful MKX character forums on this site are the ones that have an active, dedicated thread for each variation. As a result, I wanted to create a thread for my current, personal favorite Jason variation: Unstoppable. Please feel free to post all ideas, tech, strategy, quirks, bugs, highly impractical buff combos, etc. etc, which pertain exclusively to Jason's Unstoppable variation, in this thread.

So, I'll start things off by focusing on something that will undoubtedly be crucial for playing Unstoppable Jason optimally as the MKX metta evolves: Getting his two, unique buffs ("punishment" - damage and "rise" - self healing) out safely on the screen. The following are attacks with enough hit advantage to get both buffs out safely - The regular version of each buff has 44 recovery frames and the ex version of each buff has 38 recovery frames :


B2 (hit advantage: 53, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
F3 (hit advantage: 48, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
F2 (hit advantage: 34, ex-versions are safe)

24 (hit advantage: 54, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
23 (hit advantage: 53, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
B122 (hit advantage: 46, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
F44 (hit advantage: 42, both regular and ex-versions are safe)
32D1 (hit advantage: 37, ex-versions are safe)
32U1 (hit advantage: 35, ex-versions are safe)

J2,J3,and J4 (hit advantage: 46, both regular and ex-versions are safe)

NJ 1,2 ( (hit advantage: 51, both regular and ex-versions are safe)

NJ 3,4 (hit advantage: 35, ex-versions are safe)

IMO, F44 and F3 are two of your best options, because:
1) Both have awesome range and
2) Both are safe on block
3) F4 hits low and F3 hits overhead.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
f44 ~ Punishment/Rise is safe (as in the buff animation is safe) and is a low starter.

What I want to start toying with is what to do while we have the health regen buff. Should we go in, play safe, or change nothing? Since we don't get that much health per use, I think we shouldn't play safe because the chip we may receive may be enough to cancel out the health we got back. And so far, Jason's defense doesn't seem the greatest anyway. So, I'd say either go in or change nothing.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
f44 ~ Punishment/Rise is safe (as in the buff animation is safe) and is a low starter.

What I want to start toying with is what to do while we have the health regen buff. Should we go in, play safe, or change nothing? Since we don't get that much health per use, I think we shouldn't play safe because the chip we may receive may be enough to cancel out the health we got back. And so far, Jason's defense doesn't seem the greatest anyway. So, I'd say either go in or change nothing.
I agree, f44 is one of our best options.

I say change nothing when you have rise activated. Let it do its thing. Although, if forced to choose, I'd lean towards being aggressive because you are completely right, other than an armored choke or command grab, Jason's defensive options are mediocre. His pokes are meh.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
What tick throws are people having the most success with? I've had the most success with d1 squeeze, d4 squeeze, and f24 squeeze. Everyone seems to duck f2 and I can't consistently land b2 squeeze just yet.

Imo, tick throws and setting up punishment/Rise on the knockdowns I mentioned in the op are where it's at with this variation.
 
I usually only ever activate the health regen when I'm farther away from the opponent to offset chip I'll take trying to land a hit. When I land I combo I tend to end in df1 or 111~Punishment/f44~Punishment to get the safe damage boost and take it from there.

As for tick throws I mostly get the from d1, b2, and b1.
F2 and24 I usually only get after I have a jump in blocked.
 
Do you guys think that it's worth doing the ex versions of his buffs? One does more damage, the other I think heals faster...it's nice but I think the bars would be better for wake ups/armor. Also, which buff do you guys prioritize? Seems to me that the health regen one would be better over the power one since it's guaranteed, the power one could be wasted if you're not able to open them up or if they run away.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Do you guys think that it's worth doing the ex versions of his buffs? One does more damage, the other I think heals faster...it's nice but I think the bars would be better for wake ups/armor. Also, which buff do you guys prioritize? Seems to me that the health regen one would be better over the power one since it's guaranteed, the power one could be wasted if you're not able to open them up or if they run away.
1) the enhanced version of his healing buff doesn't actually heal any faster. It just has less recovery frames (38 - as opposed to 44 for the regular version). In other words, it is easier to get it out safely.
2) the main reason to use the enhanced versions of his buffs is to be able to get them out in situations in which the regular versions wouldn't be safe. In other words, there are situations in which you can ONLY get an enhanced buff out safely. (Check op)
3) the enhanced damage buff increases the Damage markedly and is definitely a legit consideration (I personally use it to try and close out a match)
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
So i don't know if Jason mains know ts, but....

You can, as a reversal, activate his buffs between Sub Zero ice blasts and clone tosses safely.

Now, i can't seem to get the reversal out after blocking the MB Ice blast, and you activate the buff after an ice blast and he does MB Ice blast, you will still be frozen BUT the buff does not go away.

I am positive there is more to this, than just this example, but it may be worth looking into.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
So i don't know if Jason mains know ts, but....

You can, as a reversal, activate his buffs between Sub Zero ice blasts and clone tosses safely.

Now, i can't seem to get the reversal out after blocking the MB Ice blast, and you activate the buff after an ice blast and he does MB Ice blast, you will still be frozen BUT the buff does not go away.

I am positive there is more to this, than just this example, but it may be worth looking into.
I haven't tried this, but it sounds very useful.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Does anyone have any good uses for back-breaker (dbf 1), other than as a swaggy, damaging combo-ender? I want to use it more because it is so fast (10 frame start-up for a command grab is awesome), but the combination of it being a high as well as having very short range seems to make it whiff so often. And, even for the tick throws in which both command grabs will hit (several only connect with Squeeze), there seems to be no reason to ever use back-breaker because it has far more recovery frames, and therefore, is much easier to punish on whiff.
 

DarksydeDash

With my best, I will defeat your best.
The best strategy I found is to abuse the healing buff. That way you can take more of a beating while dishing out your own and having meter to revive. Once you have two bars use the damage buff and make it hurt.
 

Carefoot

http://youtube.com/nickcarefoot
-The buffs stack.
-The buffs can be cast mid combo.
-X-Ray is better than losing 3 bars to resurection?
-Damage Buff can carry over into next round.
 

mhtdtr

Ancestors, give me strength!
I play this variation more than any other and i love it, but i feel that Jason in general cannot compete with several characters due to his lack of tools to escape pressure. I will play Jason forever as my main but it is so frustrating to expect the other person mistake
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Good to hear! I love the design/concept of Unstoppable and so I play him a lot. I'm definitely better with Slasher, but I think I enjoy Unstoppable more.
 

Alien Substance

Evanesce
Lead Moderator
News Editor
So . . . Does anyone still actually play this variation? I feel like I'm alone. LOL
Unstoppable is one of my primary reasons for wanting to purchase Jason. There's something about healing specials that fascinate me. Because of this, I unfortunately use Dualist Liu Kang; (though, I haven't taken the time to properly learn Kotal Kahn.) Jason seems to have the best healing special in MKX at the moment.

You've said this in another thread:

Jason has two solid, viable variations (Relentless and Slasher) and one hopeless variation (Unstoppable). I think both Relentless and Slasher are easily better than online troll status.
Why do you believe Unstoppable to be a hopeless variation? Is it by the sheer fact that his other two variations exist and have better tools?
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Unstoppable is one of my primary reasons for wanting to purchase Jason. There's something about healing specials that fascinate me. Because of this, I unfortunately use Dualist Liu Kang; (though, I haven't taken the time to properly learn Kotal Kahn.) Jason seems to have the best healing special in MKX at the moment.

You've said this in another thread:


Why do you believe Unstoppable to be a hopeless variation? Is it by the sheer fact that his other two variations exist and have better tools?
I don't have time to post a particularly detailed analysis, however, just to summarize:

1) slasher and relentless aren't just better, they are prohibitively better.

2) unstoppable suffers from two major issues: A) his heal and damage buffs interrupt the flow of his offense. He's essentially an in your face, Rush-down brawler/grappler who has the unfortunate burden of having to take time/frames/resources away from his offense. B) Half of the time his resurrection is a blessing and half of the time it is an unmitigated disaster that wastes your meter to save a round that is unsalvageable.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
What does Unstoppable need to become a better variation?
It's hard to say because he is one of those variations who epitomizes the notion of there being a very fine line between being below average and being awesome. (i.e. He could easily be turned into a monster if his tools were tweaked too aggressively)

However, as it stands, he is easily Jason's worst variation. For starters, I'd like to see the duration of his damage buff increased significantly. I've always felt it was way too short. I'd also like to see him get more health back from his heal. But again, NRS would have to be careful. (Maybe 8% instead of 5%?)