Question - Slasher [Pre-XL] Is Jason really that bad?

[Darth-Nero]

How do you know they are setting him up as nemesis ? They didnt say anything like that in the annoucement And gameplay video

In the kombat pack 2 gameplay trailer you can see the deliberate leatherface vs Jason. Alien vs Predator and Jason vs Leatherface has been implied more than once on different occasions, it's practically official.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

To anyone who honesty thinks Jason is NOT the worst character in the game, I would pose two questions:

1) What winning match-ups does he have? (Any variation against any other variation in the game)

2) Which character has fewer winning match-ups?

I think the only match up that kind of favors him is imposter Shinnok vs jason....I think it's a 6-4 lol. (Probably the only favourable matchup for jason)

 

[KeyserSoze]

While I still believe that he is the worst character, he still has some "fair" or "even" MU.

I found relentless work against Kitana royal storm and assaassin.
You teleport on a read (every kitana throws fans contantly #spammyfanny)
and punish with b122 run b122 run b2dd4 that's what I like to do.
Use the low starter against the parry.

Also go for cmd grabs on the opponents wake up and in the neutral.
what I also like to do is do b12 fdb2 or 111 fdb2, 11 fdb2 (you get the idea)
wich of course whiffs but the recovery is only 12 frames, so if your opp tries to do smth I can often hit them out of it.
When the red screen is on go for low/overhead or cmd/tick throw.

also a good tool is jip2 1fdb2 which is a superfast tick throw.

Yh I rambled a bit but I think Jason is viable.
If only relentless anyway.
let's pray for some buffs I want unstoppable to be better.

Cheers

I agree that relentless is marginally viable, but still low tier, and regardless, I honestly don't think Jason wins a single matchup in mkx. And, more to the point, even if he does win a few, I'm quite confident that he has more definitively losing match ups than any other character in mkx.

 

[NRS No Mercy]

Oh OK Yeah then hell prob get a buff then since leatherface pretty much kicks ass

 

[KeyserSoze]

I think the only match up that kind of favors him is imposter Shinnok vs jason....I think it's a 6-4 lol. (Probably the only favourable matchup for jason)

You think Jason beats Imposter Shinnok? Interesting. Which variation? Relentless only? All three? I would love to hear why you feel this match-up favors us, because from my experience, Shinnok bodies Jason.

 

[KeyserSoze]

As an aside, I think people tend to overrate pursuit when they try and talk up relentless. Pursuit is good, but no where near as broken as it first appears. As it turns out, a lot of characters have good options against it. Any character with a fast advancing special with Back-Forward inputs (such as Raiden's Superman) blows that shit up. Generally, I find that when I play someone who knows the Relentless match-up, red screen isn't all its cracked up to be. Its a nice tool, but nothing game-changing.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

You think Jason beats Imposter Shinnok? Interesting. Which variation? Relentless only? All three? I would love to hear why you feel this match-up favors us, because from my experience, Shinnok bodies Jason.

Imo the move he steals from jason is a death sentence for Shinnok, the imposter player knows once he commits to the mixup he knows he can't use the move given to him because if he does he may get armour but he eventually goes to sleep and gets killed, jason basically just stops Shinnok from wanting to do the dd4 he steals from jason.That's pretty much imo the only reason that jason (Not slasher) should be able to fair well against Imposter, just my opinion.

As you're a jason main, you know better than me about jason , but this is just my opinion once again.
Edit: (Refers to your relentless jason "pursuit" move point)
I think that people do fall for the pursuit move a lot but he doesn't have any setups for it.I agree with you on that one.But slasher imo can do nothing at all against anyone, i just don't see any type of usage for slasher.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Imo the move he steals from jason is a death sentence for Shinnok, the imposter player knows once he commits to the mixup he knows he can't use the move given to him because if he does he may get armour but he eventually goes to sleep and gets killed, jason basically just stops Shinnok from wanting to do the dd4 he steals from jason.That's pretty much imo the only reason that jason (Not slasher) should be able to fair well against Imposter, just my opinion.

As you're a jason main, you know better than me about jason , but this is just my opinion once again.

I hear you, but trust me, Jason doesn't beat Imposter, lol. Imposter still low-profiles the shit out of Jason.

 

[NRS No Mercy]

Why is slasher so bad? All relenthless has is that punch combo into tick throw cmd grab And no projectile or decent normals? If im not mistaken i thought slasher wasnt far behind but it seems like slasher is just worst of the worst in the whole the game kinda sux i only like Jason with machette

 

[NRS No Mercy]

Well that kinda sucks i guess im gonna go back to Takeda for a bit untill Jason is buffed because i only like the slasher varation And that seems like the worst i tried relenthless even tho i can play it i just dont like it as much i need that machette hehe i guess ill have to wait And see march 1st if i can main him then might use him here And there untill then but i wont go full main untill slasher is viable

 

[KeyserSoze]

Why is slasher so bad? All relenthless has is that punch combo into tick throw cmd grab And no projectile or decent normals? If im not mistaken i thought slasher wasnt far behind but it seems like slasher is just worst of the worst in the whole the game kinda sux i only like Jason with machette

1) Unstoppable is worse than Slasher, IMO.

2) Slasher is a few tweaks from being formidable. As he is currently constructed, he's a noob-killer with an easily blockable 50/50. IMO, he would be good if: 1) He had significantly better pokes (a faster d1 would really help) and 2) His F2 was a legit combo starter.

 

[NRS No Mercy]

1) Unstoppable is worse than Slasher, IMO.

2) Slasher is a few tweaks from being formidable. As he is currently constructed, he's a noob-killer with an easily blockable 50/50. IMO, he would be good if: 1) He had significantly better pokes (a faster d1 would really help) and 2) His F2 was a legit combo starter.

Yeah i dont understand hes so easy to block And easy to zone out its like its not even fair compared to the rest of the cast i just hope slasher would be viable some day as i rly want to main that varation but now is not the time i guess

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

I agree that relentless is marginally viable, but still low tier, and regardless, I honestly don't think Jason wins a single matchup in mkx. And, more to the point, even if he does win a few, I'm quite confident that he has more definitively losing match ups than any other character in mkx.

Yeah that is probably right.
Thinking about it, I win with relentless because I play more gimmicky than anything I guess.
Dunno if you can even play him any other way lol.

Slasher is basically like you said, has a great zoning tool wich even has armor, but he is too easy to predict and the overhead into special does like no dmg.
Also his df1 dosen't has the same advancing range as in the other variations.

He has good dmg midscreen and in the corner but no teleport and not advancing strings like b122.

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

1) Unstoppable is worse than Slasher, IMO.

2) Slasher is a few tweaks from being formidable. As he is currently constructed, he's a noob-killer with an easily blockable 50/50. IMO, he would be good if: 1) He had significantly better pokes (a faster d1 would really help) and 2) His F2 was a legit combo starter.

Hm it's hard to call wich is better.
I have more success with unstoppable because of the tick throws.

You probably know, but you can set up a buff mid combo on hit like b12 exdd3.
Sad thing that you can't continue it though.
I like my tick throws and cmd throw whiffs gimmicks more than the machete.

That's just me though.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Hm it's hard to call wich is better.
I have more success with unstoppable because of the tick throws.

You probably know, but you can set up a buff mid combo on hit like b12 exdd3.
Sad thing that you can't continue it though.
I like my tick throws and cmd throw whiffs gimmicks more than the machete.

That's just me though.

I agree that it's close, but my argument for Slasher being better would be as follows:

1) Rise (the healing buff), punishment (the damage buff), and resurrection (i.e. the three specials that define Unstoppable) are all comically under-powered.

Rise only grants 5% health, and amazingly, corpse walk (ex-rise) also only grants 5% health, with only marginally fewer frames of recovery (You can make a very strong case for ex-rise being the worst special move in the entire game). Thus, if you screw up and try to activate rise in an unsafe situation and get punished for it, it's a HUGE net negative for you. Ex-rise should, at the very least, grant you 10% health back.

Punishment doesn't last anywhere near long enough. The damage of punishment and ex-punishment is awesome, but you only have 4 seconds or so to work with. It's simply not enough. Also, Unstoppable's base damage is so laughably bad that the overall effects of punishment are inherently underwhelming. The duration of punishment and ex-punishment needs to be doubled, at a minimum.

Resurrection doesn't grant you enough health back. I would say in the majority of situations, it's not worth it to try and resurrect yourself after losing the first round, at the very real risk of losing all of your meter going into a must-win round. The amount of health granted back with Resurrection needs to be increased, substantially.

I would argue that killing machine is a better overall special than any one of Unstoppable's variation specific specials.

2) Unstoppable has awesome tick-throws and b122, which, when combined, serve to make his neutral game much better than Slasher's. However, the problem is that Slasher's base, meter-less damage destroys unstoppable's base, meter-less damage.

Meter-less damage is a big deal for Jason because his mediocre pokes force him to rely on metered specials to armor through pressure. Due to the fact that Slasher does such solid meter-less damage, he tends to have more meter for armored df1 and bf2 than Unstoppable has for armored choke or armored command grabs.

Unstoppable's base damage needs to be buffed. In particular, the scaling on B122 is absurd.

3) Slasher is much, much, much better against zoners than Unstoppable is. I'm not sure there is character in MKX that gets bodied by zoners worse than Unstoppable. Both can struggle with competent zoning, but machete toss gives Slasher a fighting chance. Unstoppable has no viable answer for a character with a fast projectile who is skilled enough not to mindlessly spam and eat armored temple punches.

Edit: I should point out that all of these changes, when combined, would be too much. But, IMO, Unstoppable needs several of them. If I were buffing him I would:

A) Double the duration of punishment

B) Increase the health gained back from corpse walk from 5% to 10%

and

C) Increase the health gained back from resurrection

OR

C) Significantly reduce his damage scaling on B122

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Jason is gonna be an uphill battle for sure. Have secondaries for your own sanity. Unless you're into self harm you should never use him agains sub, cage, Liu kang, or predator.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Jason is gonna be an uphill battle for sure. Have secondaries for your own sanity. Unless you're into self harm you should never use him agains sub, cage, Liu kang, or predator.

Or Shinnok. Or Tanya. Or Sonya. Or . . . you get the point.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Or Shinnok. Or Tanya. Or Sonya. Or . . . you get the point.

Yeah, I was just tryna narrow it down to the suicide ones. A-list vs relentless/unstoppable and grandmaster vs slasher coul very well be an 8-2 or at the least a very tough 7-3.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Yeah, I was just tryna narrow it down to the suicide ones. A-list vs relentless/unstoppable and grandmaster vs slasher coul very well be an 8-2 or at the least a very tough 7-3.

omfg A-list

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

Yeah, I was just tryna narrow it down to the suicide ones. A-list vs relentless/unstoppable and grandmaster vs slasher coul very well be an 8-2 or at the least a very tough 7-3.

The most epic thing is when u just walk through the ice clone with killing machine.
I'll never forget the way my opponent reacted lol.

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

I agree that it's close, but my argument for Slasher being better would be as follows:

1) Rise (the healing buff), punishment (the damage buff), and resurrection (i.e. the three specials that define Unstoppable) are all comically under-powered.

Rise only grants 5% health, and amazingly, corpse walk (ex-rise) also only grants 5% health, with only marginally fewer frames of recovery (You can make a very strong case for ex-rise being the worst special move in the entire game). Thus, if you screw up and try to activate rise in an unsafe situation and get punished for it, it's a HUGE net negative for you. Ex-rise should, at the very least, grant you 10% health back.

Punishment doesn't last anywhere near long enough. The damage of punishment and ex-punishment is awesome, but you only have 4 seconds or so to work with. It's simply not enough. Also, Unstoppable's base damage is so laughably bad that the overall effects of punishment are inherently underwhelming. The duration of punishment and ex-punishment needs to be doubled, at a minimum.

Resurrection doesn't grant you enough health back. I would say in the majority of situations, it's not worth it to try and resurrect yourself after losing the first round, at the very real risk of losing all of your meter going into a must-win round. The amount of health granted back with Resurrection needs to be increased, substantially.

I would argue that killing machine is a better overall special than any one of Unstoppable's variation specific specials.

2) Unstoppable has awesome tick-throws and b122, which, when combined, serve to make his neutral game much better than Slasher's. However, the problem is that Slasher's base, meter-less damage destroys unstoppable's base, meter-less damage.

Meter-less damage is a big deal for Jason because his mediocre pokes force him to rely on metered specials to armor through pressure. Due to the fact that Slasher does such solid meter-less damage, he tends to have more meter for armored df1 and bf2 than Unstoppable has for armored choke or armored command grabs.

Unstoppable's base damage needs to be buffed. In particular, the scaling on B122 is absurd.

3) Slasher is much, much, much better against zoners than Unstoppable is. I'm not sure there is character in MKX that gets bodied by zoners worse than Unstoppable. Both can struggle with competent zoning, but machete toss gives Slasher a fighting chance. Unstoppable has no viable answer for a character with a fast projectile who is skilled enough not to mindlessly spam and eat armored temple punches.

Edit: I should point out that all of these changes, when combined, would be too much. But, IMO, Unstoppable needs several of them. If I were buffing him I would:

A) Double the duration of punishment

B) Increase the health gained back from corpse walk from 5% to 10%

and

C) Increase the health gained back from resurrection

OR

C) Significantly reduce his damage scaling on B122

Very in detail and pretty accurate, nice of you to take the time to argue .
While I agree with pretty much all the changes (if ex dd3 would continue the combo man... I can still dream)
I could see Jason be really good, he has a strong reversal game, although much tends to whiff, and with these changes you mentioned he should stand a chance against some of the cast:

A) Double the duration of punishment

B) Increase the health gained back from corpse walk from 5% to 10%

and

C) Increase the health gained back from resurrection

OR

C) Significantly reduce his damage scaling on

What I would add is

- Give him a true mid (b1 or speed up b3) adjust the hitboxes

- Give jason during the health gain special meter on block like kotal.

- Maybe just maybe speed up the f2 and make it an overhead or at least make it connect on crouch block.

- also f2 1+3 and b3 1+3 (is that correct? You know the "throws") should be more useful. Like maybe it should let you choose the direction you throw your opponent. Now they are pointless, you lose so much dmg on the f2 and the b3 is way to slow to be viable imo.

*Also wich is still unconfirmed I think, but if his cmd grabs would connect on hit like some chars in the beta, this would be a huge game changer.


Another thing,
how DO you play slasher in the neutral?
I really struggle keeping up the pressure and getting in is also hard sometimes.
Having the projectile only helps so much and the recovery isn't that great.

Thx in advance

-Santa

 

[KeyserSoze]

Very in detail and pretty accurate, nice of you to take the time to argue .
While I agree with pretty much all the changes (if ex dd3 would continue the combo man... I can still dream)
I could see Jason be really good, he has a strong reversal game, although much tends to whiff, and with these changes you mentioned he should stand a chance against some of the cast:

A) Double the duration of punishment

B) Increase the health gained back from corpse walk from 5% to 10%

and

C) Increase the health gained back from resurrection

OR

C) Significantly reduce his damage scaling on

What I would add is

- Give him a true mid (b1 or speed up b3) adjust the hitboxes

- Give jason during the health gain special meter on block like kotal.

- Maybe just maybe speed up the f2 and make it an overhead or at least make it connect on crouch block.

- also f2 1+3 and b3 1+3 (is that correct? You know the "throws") should be more useful. Like maybe it should let you choose the direction you throw your opponent. Now they are pointless, you lose so much dmg on the f2 and the b3 is way to slow to be viable imo.

*Also wich is still unconfirmed I think, but if his cmd grabs would connect on hit like some chars in the beta, this would be a huge game changer.


Another thing,
how DO you play slasher in the neutral?
I really struggle keeping up the pressure and getting in is also hard sometimes.
Having the projectile only helps so much and the recovery isn't that great.

Thx in advance

-Santa

Playing Slasher in neutral comes down to utilizing 12 (which is +2 on block), making good reads with armored df1 and armored bf2, neutral jump punching all kinds of whiffs, and F2~into either ex-bf2 or bf3. Everyone blocks low against Slasher, so you aren't going to be landing many raw F42s against anyone decent. Pressure with 12~bf3 and 111~bf3. End all combos in either d2, bf3, or 111 (d2 or 111 to set up killing machine and bf3 to get your opponent to the corner and/or also set up killing machine). Never use meter in combos, unless it is to take the round. Oh yeah, and abuse B122 as a meaty and as his go to punish starter.

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

Playing Slasher in neutral comes down to utilizing 12 (which is +2 on block), making good reads with armored df1 and armored bf2, neutral jump punching all kinds of whiffs, and F2~into either ex-bf2 or bf3. Everyone blocks low against Slasher, so you aren't going to be landing many raw F42s against anyone decent. Pressure with 12~bf3 and 111~bf3. End all combos in either d2, bf3, or 111 (d2 or 111 to set up killing machine and bf3 to get your opponent to the corner and/or also set up killing machine). Never use meter in combos, unless it is to take the round. Oh yeah, and abuse B122 as a meaty and as his go to punish starter.

thx man I'll try that.
I don't really like relying on killing machine though a good ender would probably bf3 or d2 innit?

 

[KeyserSoze]

thx man I'll try that.

Good luck. Slasher isn't very strong in the neutral.

 

[NRS No Mercy]

Im curious everyone talking about relenthless are there any one using slasher? Seems like no one likes it weird Lets just hope for a buff