Ayyjayyy
DevilApes
How is stunt double hard?Easy
Scorpion
Subzero grandmaster
Lui Kang flame fist
Kung Lao tempest
Hard
Reptile
D'vorah
Johnny cage stunt double
Just off the top of my head.
How is stunt double hard?Easy
Scorpion
Subzero grandmaster
Lui Kang flame fist
Kung Lao tempest
Hard
Reptile
D'vorah
Johnny cage stunt double
Just off the top of my head.
How common a character is means nothing. Hellfire was very common when he was S-Tier and his execution is one of the hardest in the game. And that was in the opening month or two. This far into a games lifespan, a character as strong as Tempest could be the hardest character in the game to play and he'd still be seen everywhere. Not saying he is however. But watch a good Tempest main like f0xy play, 2 frame links all over the shop, unlocking the real damage the character has, this alone excludes him from the discussion of easiest characters.He's one of the most common and not just amongst pros which tells you that like Tanya he has a low barrier of entry. He has no losing matchups, great antiair, his bnb jails into a free fifty fifty and that's his whole strategy as a character. He has a teleport to evade projectile pressure and his damage is above average. He has solid armor as well as almost free pressure with his or bitting hat. Easy armor breaks that happen naturally with his bnb and he isnt as negative as other characters.
You make good points but I think your missing the point of the OP. It's about easiest characters to pick up and characters with the steepest learning curves. Yes you can do tight connections for a bit of extra damage when your god tier like foxy but the poster didn't ask about who had the tightest execution for an extra couple of percent. But when you look at top 5 players your going to see extraordinary stuff like that. Every pro has a pocket Lao. Many casuals play lao. Not because he's just so good they have to play him but because he is strong matchups wise. Casuals ofcourse not to the highest degree but enough to be above average because he is a naturally very powerful character. Is he easy to pick up? Yes. Deny that all you want but I believe that completely. He doesn't need mind games. He just needs to be very repetitive and armor responses. Not at the top tier but average player status. He has some of the best tools and they aren't difficult to perform.How common a character is means nothing. Hellfire was very common when he was S-Tier and his execution is one of the hardest in the game. And that was in the opening month or two. This far into a games lifespan, a character as strong as Tempest could be the hardest character in the game to play and he'd still be seen everywhere. Not saying he is however. But watch a good Tempest main like f0xy play, 2 frame links all over the shop, unlocking the real damage the character has, this alone excludes him from the discussion of easiest characters.
On top of that, your other reasoning doesn't make sense either. He's easy on execution because "he has no losing match ups". Huh? Literally no correlation. "He has a solid armour"? Ok so does Jax, doesn't make his RCs any easier, you are talking about pressing a button on wake up and how good it is, not about execution lol.
Also what is his BnB and what 50/50 does it jail in to? Not gonna comment on this till I know what you are referring to but it doesn't sound correct at all.
Come on TYM I know we hate KL. But you can't just answer EVERY question with "Lao" without even thinking lol
I disagree, there is very few difficult things in this game that I can't find a work around for at the cost of a couple of percent. Asking which characters have the hardest learning curve suggests fleshing them all the way out, the question you are answering is who is the lowest at the beginning of the curve. I get what you are saying, Lao is one of the easiest characters to win with - but that's simply because the character is broken 6 ways to sunday, not because he's any easier on execution. His execution is definitely harder than some others.You make good points but I think your missing the point of the OP. It's about easiest characters to pick up and characters with the steepest learning curves. Yes you can do tight connections for a bit of extra damage when your god tier like foxy but the poster didn't ask about who had the tightest execution for an extra couple of percent. But when you look at top 5 players your going to see extraordinary stuff like that. Every pro has a pocket Lao. Many casuals play lao. Not because he's just so good they have to play him but because he is strong matchups wise. Casuals ofcourse not to the highest degree but enough to be above average because he is a naturally very powerful character. Is he easy to pick up? Yes. Deny that all you want but I believe that completely. He doesn't need mind games. He just needs to be very repetitive and armor responses. Not at the top tier but average player status. He has some of the best tools and they aren't difficult to perform.
I mean you could say the exact same thing for Laos corner juggles, and grandmasters corner juggles are most definitely harder, but you put both of them in the easiest and put SD in the hardest, your logic is inconsistent to say the leastStunt double is difficult because of his combos having in air juggles. It's not like Ermac combos where they are really high up. It makes them easy to drop and on top of that doesn't have much in the way of damage without a clone. SD johnny is alot about what you could do and less about what you actually do. Conditioning your opponent to expect you to do something and utilizing that expectation as an opening for a different onslaught. It took me quite awhile to be able to do that to the degree to win matches in ranked. Online johnny cage in unviable unless you don't lagg or have latency issues. Offline he's a different beast.
Understanding the tech behind making the characters work in both combos and the meta were the biggest things for me. Now, I know my understanding of the tech and meta is lacking when compared to the veterans here, but what I have found is pretty easy to do once you understand how to do it. So, once someone understands all (or most of the character) tech, how easy a character is relies almost exclusively on the meta.You make good points but I think your missing the point of the OP. It's about easiest characters to pick up and characters with the steepest learning curves. Yes you can do tight connections for a bit of extra damage when your god tier like foxy but the poster didn't ask about who had the tightest execution for an extra couple of percent. But when you look at top 5 players your going to see extraordinary stuff like that. Every pro has a pocket Lao. Many casuals play lao. Not because he's just so good they have to play him but because he is strong matchups wise. Casuals ofcourse not to the highest degree but enough to be above average because he is a naturally very powerful character. Is he easy to pick up? Yes. Deny that all you want but I believe that completely. He doesn't need mind games. He just needs to be very repetitive and armor responses. Not at the top tier but average player status. He has some of the best tools and they aren't difficult to perform.
I don't really understand what you mean, you should give some examples manUnderstanding the tech behind making the characters work in both combos and the meta were the biggest things for me. Now, I know my understanding of the tech and meta is lacking when compared to the veterans here, but what I have found is pretty easy to do once you understand how to do it. So, once someone understands all (or most of the character) tech, how easy a character is relies almost exclusively on the meta.
Early Hellfire Scorpion had a very simple meta. Yeah, his combos were hard to pull off - but once you understood the tech, they weren't that hard. Tempest is much the same as this. Once you get the tech, the execution become easier - and his meta is very, very simple.
Now, I still hate Bojutsu the most because there is no tech behind his character. So, anyone who uses him doesn't have to work to acquire the tech to help them in execution. They get to bypass all that and go right into his meta. Now, his meta isn't all that simple - but I still hate that his users get to bypass the right of passage that all the rest of us had to undergo.
So, character tech isn't nearly as important as meta tech in the end-game. Character tech (or execution) is how to do it. Meta tech is knowing what to do, when.
I think I took to long to make my point.I don't really understand what you mean, you should give some examples man
What I don't get then is why you think Jin mains don't have to do thisI think I took to long to make my point.
Character tech is how to do shit with a character; combos, punishing, safe-attacks, how to get around quickly, and all the "How To's" with a character are part of this.
The character's meta is what to do with a character, when - and it includes all the matchup knowledge - and how to flow with a character. It even involves how to win exchanges. Once you "get gud", this is what the game is.
Kitana isn't easy to use..Oh Yeah... and for me
Hardest
1 Cassie
2 Kotal Kahn
3 D' Vorah
4 Tanya (only because I am learning now )
Easiest
1 Raiden
2 Liu Kang
3 Kano
4 Erron Black
5 Kitana (though I'm used to playing her every game)
Note that the thread is six months old and a lot has changed and the list I made is well outdated/obsoleteKitana isn't easy to use..
None of your points give any reason for why he's "easiest". Tanya is among the easiest characters in the game, while Kung Lao is without a doubt the most difficult non-cancel character to use.He's one of the most common and not just amongst pros which tells you that like Tanya he has a low barrier of entry. He has no losing matchups, great antiair, his bnb jails into a free fifty fifty and that's his whole strategy as a character. He has a teleport to evade projectile pressure and his damage is above average. He has solid armor as well as almost free pressure with his or bitting hat. Easy armor breaks that happen naturally with his bnb and he isnt as negative as other characters.
what makes him that hardNone of your points give any reason for why he's "easiest". Tanya is among the easiest characters in the game, while Kung Lao is without a doubt the most difficult non-cancel character to use.
His execution overall. Even his basic combos have varying links, his best string, 112124, requires sliding or other tactics, while other strings just require moderately fast pressing of the buttons. If you want max damage you have to hit varying 2 frame links.what makes him that hard
That's a really vague answer, other than the 44 links there is nothing there that I couldn't say applies to other characters. I do play Lao, nothing he has is as hard as Instaair guns from Cassie, B2 clone freezes on females as Sub, iAFB combos from Liu, etc. I'm not saying he's the easiest in the game because he's definitely not, but hardest non-cancel character is a massive overstatement and to call it "undoubtable" is just incorrect, I think many many ppl would find that a highly doubtable statement thinking Lao is the hardest character to playHis execution overall. Even his basic combos have varying links, his best string, 112124, requires sliding or other tactics, while other strings just require moderately fast pressing of the buttons. If you want max damage you have to hit varying 2 frame links.
Play the character, then play any other non-cancel character. He's harder than Reptile, Cassie Cage, you name it, that doesn't have to do cancels.
Unfortunately our evidence is tangible, and with that he is the hardest non-cancel character. Pointing out an instant air mechanic, which is one thing that does not vary, or a combo that's not even hard(Sub Zero combos on females? lol).That's a really vague answer, other than the 44 links there is nothing there that I couldn't say applies to other characters. I do play Lao, nothing he has is as hard as Instaair guns from Cassie, B2 clone freezes on females as Sub, iAFB combos from Liu, etc. I'm not saying he's the easiest in the game because he's definitely not, but hardest non-cancel character is a massive overstatement and to call it "undoubtable" is just incorrect, I think many many ppl would find that a highly doubtable statement thinking Lao is the hardest character to play
As I've said, I've "tried" the character in fact I have more time with him than any other character if we include all 3 variations. I didn't say he's brain dead, I didn't say he's super easy, I just said that calling him the hardest non cancel character is a pretty contestable statement. I don't understand what you mean by instaair being a mechanic that doesn't vary... A I don't see how this is the case and B I don't see how it's relevant to things being harder or not? And fact is, you simply haven't tried GMs B2 B2 1,1 b12 freeze BnB on females because not only is the link equal in difficulty to 44 hat links, the timing is also relevant to all your prior hits affecting the juggle. I suggest you take some of your own advice and maybe broaden your horizons a littleUnfortunately our evidence is tangible, and with that he is the hardest non-cancel character. Pointing out an instant air mechanic, which is one thing that does not vary, or a combo that's not even hard(Sub Zero combos on females? lol).
Obviously tons of people don't play Lao, see him win, and think "oh he's braindead". He's good, but far from braindead. Try the character.
...because there is no underlying tech behind Bojutsu combos. You just do them in the correct order and they come out.What I don't get then is why you think Jin mains don't have to do this
Character tech has escaped you. There are little tricks that you have to learn to make them work. With Quan Chi, its about getting up to speed. With other characters like Kotal Khan, its about letting the controller go neutral at certain times. Other characters have frame specific cancels or run combos, like Liu Kang, that you have to be able to pull off to access his real meta.I still feel like something is escaping me here... Don't you just do everyone's combo in the correct order? I know you play Quan Chi as well isn't he a great example of just pressing buttons in the right order... What am I missing here
Kotal execution wasn't simplistic for me until I learned to go neutral between F1's. Even after that, there's a big difference between the un-upped 31-33's everyone does and the un-upped 42-54's that the dedicated Kotal players are doing. Once you get past that, his meta isn't all that simple at all. You gotta get in.I don't know what most of you are on.
Jason and Goro are as easy as it gets to "learn'. Kotal is pretty simplistic as well.
Learning how to use Jacqui right and consistent is pretty difficult compared to most of the cast.