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Guide - Hat Trick The real reason why Hat Trick isn't viable

Danger317

Apprentice
You can back dash the call back, and its not even hard to do. I was messing around in a Tower on very hard once i felt i was comfortable with a few combos. At least twice every single char i faced back dashed the call back, so i went into training mode to see if it was something you need god like reflexes for and it's not. Pretty much any set up he has in Hat Trick the call back can be back dashed. #BuffHatTrick
 

Danger317

Apprentice
Do you honestly think this is the "real" reason or is it just another thing you're bringing to our attention.
There are many reasons. Call back whiffing against ducking oppoents. air hat and back hat being pretty much useless. The inconsistencies when HCB hits. Being able to back dash the call back is just the cherry on top
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
This thread is bad. This has nothing to do with a character being "viable". And what if you delay it 3 frames? They'll get hit out of the backdash. What if you don't do the call back, then you get a free combo. There are other reasons why the variation needs to be fixed but this is not one of them at all.
 

OnlineSkunk

Mortal
You can back dash the call back, and its not even hard to do. I was messing around in a Tower on very hard once i felt i was comfortable with a few combos. At least twice every single char i faced back dashed the call back, so i went into training mode to see if it was something you need god like reflexes for and it's not. Pretty much any set up he has in Hat Trick the call back can be back dashed. #BuffHatTrick
More like because he has to rely on an 8 frames S1 to be able to anti air anything, this is the reason I'll never play hat trick or buzzsaw. There are better characters that can do what those variation do but better and they takes less effort ;)
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I keep Hat Calling as Sub Zero uses Clone, on read, to go right through him in the neutral so I can launch and punish him as he tries to catch me with a clone, but a lot of the time he somehow invulnerables straight through it. This I think needs to be fixed.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The amount of time i catch ppl with raw HCB, sadly can't convert, you can't tell if its hitting crouching or standing, considering it has different juggle proprieties, its even way worse when is the low HCB since hitting them with low HCB. HCB why don't you have the same juggle height for as regular HCB either hitting standing or crouching, or same low HCB juggle propriety when hits low or crouching? This issue alone is one of the many that makes HT unviable, if you notice you got 80% chances of juggle inconsistency happening on raw HCB strategies that you will lose up most of your conversions and actually foc you over on MU you need the most.

The amount of time i try to apply pressure with HCB, only to whiff on characters neutral crouching it, even on hit, when you cancel into HCB it whiffs against some characters. Why you keep whiffing, do your damn job HT?

The completely annoying situation of how you set up a bluff trap in order to blow up a wrong mixup guess, you block right and the best you can get out it is a throw, cause you can't extend or do juggle punishes with the hat behind you. Why u so useless, so variationless when the hat is behind you?

The struggle of fighting teleport characters because they will never stay in between you and the hat, and will to whenever they can to put you in between them and the hat, above trap doesn't work too, which is a position where HT becomes variationless because he can't 11212~HCB~44 as a 1f link combo. Seriously, we need this, so we can actually manage to land a hit as punishing, and full combo convert to bring the fight on.

Why above hat trap exist if he can't use that, still think the lack of additional commands to place the hat above but front and above but behind would be pretty useful. Why were you put in the game, oh i know:
*** NRS on a production day ***
dev 1: "Hey, do you know what is really cool that we gave to Hat Trick?"
dev 2: "No, do you have something in mind?"
dev 1: "Yeah, we gave him an above hat trap, so he can threat ppl to not jump on him, here let me show you"

Second dev sees the animation

dev 2: "Oh, amazing, so the hat hits who ever jumps on lao?"
dev 1: "No, but it hits when he calls it back to his head, but the idea is to block air so ppl don't simply jump on him"
dev 2: "hmm, so it wouldn't just be better to spin? I don't see how the hat on that particular position poses any threat!"
dev 1: don't worry, a godlike player who can predict the future will appear and anti-air ppl out of the air on reaction with this trap, that they will be so afraid to jump on lao everytime they see the hat going out.



Why your teleport is so ass, it doesn't even tracks properly he comes out way too far away from certain characters that DU2 ends up whiffing most of the time

Why does my hat disappears after i HCB for a trade? Stupid hat.


Things i don't really care if is changed or not, the above changes i firmly believe to enough for this variation to be viable.
HCB out of teleport
more plus frames when 112124 HCB at the minimum (yeah, otherwise only godlike fundamental players like F0xy, Wang or whoever plays Hat Trick will be gud with it).


If HT doesn't get buffed i'm moving on, the variation sucks, although i'm good at using it, well can't complain, i've been using it since the beginning mostly, but having someone to came straight to hat trick and do gud, its something that if it was to happen, it should've happened long ago, i hardly play the game these days unless of course i'm invicted to a big casual or a tournament, there is just no point.

Between all this, and the annoying buffer window that allows Kotal to do F1B2 which is over -11 on block, but i have to wait an entire moment to punish a move that is freakin minus on block that traves a dash distance in 6 frames, this move is the example of many others.

The annoyingly jump ins, that jail, and once jailed now you have to guess if is low or Overhead because you freaking blocked a Jump in, so you can't move, and both options leads to combo into more guess.

No Skarlet

Its just turning me off, i will keep playing as long as there is a competitive scene for it, but my enthusiasm for this game its not the same as when i was so hype to get it on the first place, i even bought a PS4 for this sole purpose and got MKX as my first game, can't really believe these days i play more tekken than i play MKX, and i'm a die hard mk fan and used to live and breath MK 24/7, now i spend weeks without turning my PS4 on, lol.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Yeah fuck all that logic in the post above yours
yeah fuck all the good tools my character has I want buffs! my characters bad! NRS pls this makes the game balanced, it evens out the tier lists, he's not going to be viable without it etc etc with all the other BS. Yes he's not as well rounded as tempest but Jesus Christ the hat trick community makes him out to be unviable which is absolute nonsense.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
yeah fuck all the good tools my character has I want buffs! my characters bad! NRS pls this makes the game balanced, it evens out the tier lists, he's not going to be viable without it etc etc with all the other BS. Yes he's not as well rounded as tempest but Jesus Christ the hat trick community makes him out to be unviable which is absolute nonsense.
The point is, when someone who mains the variation and understands it far better than you, makes a 12 paragraph post explaining all the reasons that this variation is struggling, you can't just respond with "nah I say you guys are downplaying, 100% fine, and here's my supporting logic of absolutely nothing". You act like people are asking for ridiculous buffs, Gravity fixes on Hat calls, above hat call back not to be so unusably bad, and callback projectile not disappearing on hit, are pretty much the only things that the Hat Trick community as a whole agrees on, basically just a working variation. So why don't you stick to making "list of needed Thunder God buffs" threads so bad that they get locked before they can make it to the second page :confused: Beyond hypocritical.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
The point is, when someone who mains the variation and understands it far better than you, makes a 12 paragraph post explaining all the reasons that this variation is struggling, you can't just respond with "nah I say you guys are downplaying, 100% fine, and here's my supporting logic of absolutely nothing". You act like people are asking for ridiculous buffs, Gravity fixes on Hat calls, above hat call back not to be so unusably bad, and callback projectile not disappearing on hit, are pretty much the only things that the Hat Trick community as a whole agrees on, basically just a working variation. So why don't you stick to making "list of needed Thunder God buffs" threads so bad that they get locked before they can make it to the second page :confused: Beyond hypocritical.
Did I reply to him? No. I simply stated my opinion the same as everyone else does completely independent of anyone else's opinion. I'm not clueless on the topic either-yes I'm not a hat trick main but I do have match up experience against a very skilled hat trick player. And yes actually thunder God is a crippled shadow of his former self but please tell me how my opinion on thunder God is relevant to why Hat trick needs buffs?
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Did I reply to him? No. I simply stated my opinion the same as everyone else does completely independent of anyone else's opinion. I'm not clueless on the topic either-yes I'm not a hat trick main but I do have match up experience against a very skilled hat trick player. And yes actually thunder God is a crippled shadow of his former self but please tell me how my opinion on thunder God is relevant to why Hat trick needs buffs?
Your opinion being, that "Hat Trick players downplaying, this variation is 100% viable" is massively offset by the fact that the post immediately before yours is 12 paragraphs full of logic as to why he isn't fine, whether you choose to acknowledge that post's existence is up to you, everyone else can still see it however. I'm just saying, throw some supporting logic to your claim. Especially since there is so much logic to the contrary. Especially since you aren't simply claiming that Hat Trick players are wrong, but that we are all conciously downplaying.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Your opinion being, that "Hat Trick players downplaying, this variation is 100% viable" is massively offset by the fact that the post immediately before yours is 12 paragraphs full of logic as to why he isn't fine, whether you choose to acknowledge that post's existence is up to you, everyone else can still see it however. I'm just saying, throw some supporting logic to your claim. Especially since there is so much logic to the contrary. Especially since you aren't simply claiming that Hat Trick players are wrong, but that we are all conciously downplaying.
Again, my opinion doesn't revolve around the opinion of others. When you give an opinion of other's characters on their forums do you believe it's necessary to reply to the very last comment? To answer your point hat trick's only real limitations (to me)are the problem of hard/low damage conversions and loss of normals and specials whilst the hat is out.In light of this I'd have to say that it's not as big of a problem as it's made out to be- firstly he still has his main pressure tools being 11212,d4,f2 and b321- with many strings that into hat recall or hat throw are safe. As a raiden player I wish I could carry on the attack or pressure after they block something but the only mind game for raiden is 'will he EX shocker after I blocked it initially?' I'm not going to explain my analysis of every aspect of him but from what I've seen of (and played against) actual hat trick mains I can tell you It wasn't free wins against a barely viable character
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Again, my opinion doesn't revolve around the opinion of others. When you give an opinion of other's characters on their forums do you believe it's necessary to reply to the very last comment? To answer your point hat trick's only real limitations (to me)are the problem of hard/low damage conversions and loss of normals and specials whilst the hat is out.In light of this I'd have to say that it's not as big of a problem as it's made out to be- firstly he still has his main pressure tools being 11212,d4,f2 and b321- with many strings that into hat recall or hat throw are safe. As a raiden player I wish I could carry on the attack or pressure after they block something but the only mind game for raiden is 'will he EX shocker after I blocked it initially?' I'm not going to explain my analysis of every aspect of him but from what I've seen of (and played against) actual hat trick mains I can tell you It wasn't free wins against a barely viable character
Standing 1 hits High not mid, you can just poke out on wakeup and the setup is gone.
F2~Hat Call whiffs on many crouching block characters and hat is supposed to hit mid, even on neutral crouch against some characters is whiffing
Random gravity juggle on HCB is crippling Hat Trick

Low damage conversions? Hat Trick does 31% meterless with a good hat out, but the problem is not punishing ppl in between Lao and the hat.

The problem is pushining ppl when the hat is behind Lao and the opponent is in front of him, that is one of the real issues.
The problem is get a HCB read but you can't convert legit damage, because either the HCB will hit them out when they're crouching and the gravity juggle eight for some reason turns pre patch, so juggle becomes inconsistent because standing and crouching opponents float different and require different fillers.

Hat trick isn't way too bad, but if you're really looking into competitive play, better hope you don't stumble into someone who knows his bugs pretty well, you won't even play.