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General/Other - Jason Voorhees [Pre-XL] Buffing JASON VOORHEES So He Becomes more Viable

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More bs damage scaling. B122 might as well be a nose flick considering it only increases damage by 1% everytime it's used in a combo string. Basically it's only use is the distance covered, essentially Jason's only poke and mid.
 
Probably a gimmick name they want to use in order to boost sales from the horror movie crowd but didn't spend any real effort making him viable. Because you won't know he isn't good until you bought the game.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Not licking arse but making a prediction

KP2 is when we see the rise of Reo
He didn't shine till later in MK9s life time.

If he is some how constantly getting the worst most limited char in the game Top 16 at Majors, imagine playing atleast an upper mid tier char or a newly buffed Jason when KP2 comes out .
 

Blade4693

VIVIVI
Probably a gimmick name they want to use in order to boost sales from the horror movie crowd but didn't spend any real effort making him viable. Because you won't know he isn't good until you bought the game.
That's kind of how I feel tbh. When Jason was announced I knew he would be my main, but I feel like they only acquired him for quick money, he doesn't seem like he received the same amount of love Predator got lol
 

LeftOverShark

Tick Throw Specialist
I think he needs some work on his damage scaling with the EX choke in relentless and unstoppable. Finishing a long combo and ending with an EX choke only nets you like 1-3% extra.

Also, make F2 in slasher able to be combo'd into midscreen rather than just canceling into psycho slash. Make it start a juggle. It's slow as tits right now.
Yeah thats hardly worth it for the metter. 5-6% seems fairer.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
This kind of scaling makes NO sense when you have characters doing DOUBLE that damage for NO meter.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
If he's not terrible, then why is he good?
He doesn't really have any great redeeming qualities that make him better than terrible. >_<
I only play Relentless and have since he was released.

His command grab is god-like; It's a fantastic whiff punisher and even on whiff it recovers really quickly, unlike other command grabs in the game. It also has good range (See my post in this thread). His tick throws are legit as hell 50/50's because of his choke. So on hit you get a combo, and on block you get a mixup - your opponent should be shitting themselves at all time lol.

His walk speed has good startup, so that combined with Jasons B1 leads to him having a pretty decent footsie game. He's scary if he begins to bait a poke, because by the time you've poked - he has walked back and used B1 (or grab) to whiff punish you.

B2 is a great anti-air and so is B1 if they're trying to jump 'safely' towards Jason for whatever reason.

His beautiful EX Teleport. Oh man, this can be a game changer. It's an excellent armoured teleport move that allows Jason to take a hit from whatever move (may it be projectiles or somebody starting a string) and whiff punish if he can or command grab the opponent. This move is not used enough by Jason players, it's a really good anti-zoning tool. I think it needs invincibility frames added to Jason when he dematerialised though because if not timed correctly he can be hit out of it (suggestion by REO) however it's still a good move an annoying to the opponent.

I'm not saying he's great, I'm just saying he does have options and tools and some of them are pretty decent. Anyone saying he's "terrible" is downplaying a little.

Also fuck the Mournful Kitana MU :p
 
He has a great command grab, yes. I don't understand what you mean about choke being a 50/50 though. It's a mid that is -10 on block lol, might as well finish your string. I agree the tick throws are very good, but you also are getting 13% for your mixup, without a great post knockdown game.

Good walkspeed, and b1 is a great footsie tool. But there a ridiculous amount of low profiling that happens in a real match.

Ex tele is good, but it's on a read. You're not reacting with ex tele, it's startup is way to long. It is a good tool, but is very matchup dependent. It's not really downplay saying he's a bad character, because he is worst in the game. No matter what unit of measurement you use, worst in the game means bad.

He does fine against all Kitana variations lol, just need to be patient.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
He has a great command grab, yes. I don't understand what you mean about choke being a 50/50 though. It's a mid that is -10 on block lol, might as well finish your string. I agree the tick throws are very good, but you also are getting 13% for your mixup, without a great post knockdown game.

Good walkspeed, and b1 is a great footsie tool. But there a ridiculous amount of low profiling that happens in a real match.

Ex tele is good, but it's on a read. You're not reacting with ex tele, it's startup is way to long. It is a good tool, but is very matchup dependent. It's not really downplay saying he's a bad character, because he is worst in the game. No matter what unit of measurement you use, worst in the game means bad.

He does fine against all Kitana variations lol, just need to be patient.
I didn't say choke is a 50/50, I said his tick throws are. The mixup is grab or choke and regardless of what it gives you after, it's still an mixup and you can still make good reads. I was more talking about 2,4 tbh - it's an obvious tick for the grab and if they try to do anything to avoid the grab then you can just jail with choke and get em'. 13% is still damage and it could win or lose the match.

I'm aware, but it's not pre-patch where everything's low-profiling. There's not as much as everyone makes out to be, there are times where it costs your health and it sucks yeah, but it's not like every D4 or low move goes under it lol. I feel like people exagerrate on TYM a lot.

You can use EX Tele in every matchup. Worst doesn't mean bad, worst means worst as in in comparison. Bad means bad, and I don't think he's bad. He's at the same level as all the other low-tier characters.

I know the Royal Stoms and Assassin matchup very well lol. Can you explain to me how the Mournful Kitana matchup goes then? To me it's awful, like, unwinnable. My entire game depends on whiff punishing her D1. I'm desperate to know what to do in this MU and you seem like you know lol :p
 
It's not really worth a choke mixup off b1 though. Might as well b12 to be -1 instead of -1. And I'm not saying ticks are bad by any means, but its just other characters get larger payoffs for a mixup.

I agree things are exaggerated here, but from first hand experience it happens with a lot of characters. I tend to "upplay" goro so I don't see why I'd just want to make Jason problems up lol.

Ex tele has uses in most matchups, but you're not going to be blatantly punishing with it, between startup and land recovery between reg and ex you're looking at 43 for ex and 53 for regular. Also, for the love of God don't use tele against kuatan warrior lol :p

Also against pressure characters its pretty much life alert. Ronin, kang etc your d1 can't even reach to try and interrupt. You're then forced to armor, which some of characters still don't need to care about. That's one of his biggest weaknesses is finding a way out of pressure with a brutal counter poking game. Spending meter with Jason sucks since its pretty hard to build.

I may have some video laying around. Once I'm back in the office later I'll breakdown the matchup though. I feel kitana is getting a little overrated in this types of matchups
 

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
Good stuff in OP. I stopped using Jason because of the problems listed. He builds meter so slow, is one of the easier characters to zone, and when you finally get in his attacks and pokes are slow as balls and get low profiled. Just not worth the frustration, even though hes badass as fuck.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
It's not really worth a choke mixup off b1 though. Might as well b12 to be -1 instead of -1. And I'm not saying ticks are bad by any means, but its just other characters get larger payoffs for a mixup.

I agree things are exaggerated here, but from first hand experience it happens with a lot of characters. I tend to "upplay" goro so I don't see why I'd just want to make Jason problems up lol.

Ex tele has uses in most matchups, but you're not going to be blatantly punishing with it, between startup and land recovery between reg and ex you're looking at 43 for ex and 53 for regular. Also, for the love of God don't use tele against kuatan warrior lol :p

Also against pressure characters its pretty much life alert. Ronin, kang etc your d1 can't even reach to try and interrupt. You're then forced to armor, which some of characters still don't need to care about. That's one of his biggest weaknesses is finding a way out of pressure with a brutal counter poking game. Spending meter with Jason sucks since its pretty hard to build.

I may have some video laying around. Once I'm back in the office later I'll breakdown the matchup though. I feel kitana is getting a little overrated in this types of matchups
Absolutely I agree, like I said, I'm talking about off of 2,4 though.

Yep, I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying it's not as bad as it used to be. It doesn't happen as much now. I'd still like it fixed of course lol. Why do you upplay Goro? Haha that's pretty funny actually.

I do use it for blatant punishes, and for screen positioning. It can get you out of the corner, a combo, and your opponent in the corner. It's wonderful.

His D1 is terrible, it's one of the problems I have in the mourful matchup too. I'd like if he build more meter too, but I seem to just manage my meter and build it alright. Just means that breaker isn't really an option.

Can't wait to hear it. Between her pressure being godlike on Jason, her zoning controling everything, Jasons D1 not reaching Kitana after particular moves, Kitans D1~Glow Kick jailing, I'd love some sort of solution to make the matchup feel like I can out play the opponent.
 

NariTuba

disMember
I fully support this thread!

Im a HUGE Jason fan, always have been. When Freddy came to Mk9 I was very vocal in these forums about Jason being included.

I only play Slasher, so I can only comment on that variation:

REOs ideas on B2, F2 and F4 are spot on. This variation lacks footsies because of the short range of b1, so his 50/50 game should be strong to compensate. I have been able to use the second hit of 12 in footsies as it lunges Jason forwards, and whiffing 1s becomes a mind game in itself once 12~bf3 or 12~choke is established. But we´re still settling for nickles and dimes compared to many of the rest of the cast.

Since REO is a respectable player he might not want to go full retard, so allow me: How about making f42 safe? -4 or something. Stopping momentum is enough, what´s the need to make his main tool full combo punishable? I would also suggest b1 having a faster startup so he becomes more dangerous upclose.

One last suggestion would be to have better recovery for bf3 on hit so in the corner Slasher becomes a powerhouse 50/50 character. That d1 link is a bitch right now... being able to go directly into b122 would make him scarier and help with his scaling.

buff Jason!
 
2,4 is pretty situational, and just not really worth the punish lol. Might as well use clothesline so you're only at -6 instead of 10.

I don't feel Goro is a bad character, but wrong topic for that discussion lol.

The time you get a punish with tele is pretty much if they dial out a string and then you get a whiff punish, can't really get a straight punish with those frames.

Well I was still learning my buttons since I usually go Goro for Mournful, but I did a bit of lab breakdown. You can just walk back after Shadow Kick and her D1 will whiff. she's -6 after Shadow kick, so if she goes for d1 SK then it's basically 16 frames for her to start it back up. Not the greatest situation, but we have options. Online this is definitely way more rough as it comes down to having a few frames to work with at any given time. Have some archives from the other night here with Runway. http://www.twitch.tv/rothschildmafia/v/18697445 (first couple games are a little rusty, had a little hiatus haha, but this clip is all Jason)

We were both pretty much feeling out the matchup, but after some lab work I really don't think it's to bad. More than likely a 4-6, for sure not unwinnable.


@Scott The Scot
 
I only play Relentless and have since he was released.

His command grab is god-like; It's a fantastic whiff punisher and even on whiff it recovers really quickly, unlike other command grabs in the game. It also has good range (See my post in this thread). His tick throws are legit as hell 50/50's because of his choke. So on hit you get a combo, and on block you get a mixup - your opponent should be shitting themselves at all time lol.

His walk speed has good startup, so that combined with Jasons B1 leads to him having a pretty decent footsie game. He's scary if he begins to bait a poke, because by the time you've poked - he has walked back and used B1 (or grab) to whiff punish you.

B2 is a great anti-air and so is B1 if they're trying to jump 'safely' towards Jason for whatever reason.

His beautiful EX Teleport. Oh man, this can be a game changer. It's an excellent armoured teleport move that allows Jason to take a hit from whatever move (may it be projectiles or somebody starting a string) and whiff punish if he can or command grab the opponent. This move is not used enough by Jason players, it's a really good anti-zoning tool. I think it needs invincibility frames added to Jason when he dematerialised though because if not timed correctly he can be hit out of it (suggestion by REO) however it's still a good move an annoying to the opponent.

I'm not saying he's great, I'm just saying he does have options and tools and some of them are pretty decent. Anyone saying he's "terrible" is downplaying a little.

Also fuck the Mournful Kitana MU :p
this sounds like when you wing a paper the morning of class ....
 
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