General/Other - Hat Trick Kung Lao Hat Trick Variation General Discussion

[ShredMinor]

Does anyone know what actually gives us the most advantage on block with traps? I'm thinking it might be b2 or b3 but not in the lAb atm

I don't think B2 or B3 give advantage, it's more that they are just not too minus. Mixed with the fact your cancelling off of stagger able strings makes the slightest bit of hesitation enough to beat them out afterwards as one thing I have found is by the time the hat is out, even just slightly before it sits in place, kung lao can continue, so it has that unlegit dualist pressure game going on where the frames aren't there, but the overwhelming animations and such cause hesitation. However, I think standing 3 into hat is either 0 or slightly plus (+2 max I reckon) I couldn't for the life of me beat that out on block. Not the best move, but it's there.

 

[llabslb]

It would only make sense to use the high hat in some combos but even then it's a bit....

It's shit when it comes to anti airing so in that sense. It's useless.

 

[The PantyChrist]

According to in game frame data 11212 is only -3 on block and has 33 cancel advantage. If hat placement has 25 frames of startup this should theoretically place us at +5 but not sure if that's accurate

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

According to in game frame data 11212 is only -3 on block and has 33 cancel advantage. If hat placement has 25 frames of startup this should theoretically place us at +5 but not sure if that's accurate

Sounds intriguing. Though as you say, I don't know how trustworthy those numbers are, even after all the patches.

It's also a pain as I still struggle with the 11212 string. It's such an awful string to get used to that it puts me off even contemplating to use it. I understand its Lao's go to pressure string but it's so awkward since the buttons just feel off, the first hit is a high so you can just get poked out of it all day and the reach is non-existent

 

[ShredMinor]

Sounds intriguing. Though as you say, I don't know how trustworthy those numbers are, even after all the patches.

It's also a pain as I still struggle with the 11212 string. It's such an awful string to get used to that it puts me off even contemplating to use it. I understand its Lao's go to pressure string but it's so awkward since the buttons just feel off, the first hit is a high so you can just get poked out of it all day and the reach is non-existent

Doesn't 11212 have terrible cancel? In fact I swear he can be flat out punished for his hat trap after it, 112124 hat trap is safe as I'm sure you know. Yes 11 series after hat trap is asking to be crushed or randomly beat out because of the 1 whiffing, this has happened to me alot.

 

[The PantyChrist]

Doesn't 11212 have terrible cancel? In fact I swear he can be flat out punished for his hat trap after it, 112124 hat trap is safe as I'm sure you know. Yes 11 series after hat trap is asking to be crushed or randomly beat out because of the 1 whiffing, this has happened to me alot.

11212 has 33 cancel advantage and is -3 on block. 11 trap itself is unsafe but 11212 trap and 112124 trap at both safe. I actually find 112124 to be easier to input into a special than 11212. I personally am using both thumbs when I want to use either string. Trying to work it down to 1 just not consistent enough yet

 

[ShredMinor]

11212 has 33 cancel advantage and is -3 on block. 11 trap itself is unsafe but 11212 trap and 112124 trap at both safe. I actually find 112124 to be easier to input into a special than 11212. I personally am using both thumbs when I want to use either string. Trying to work it down to 1 just not consistent enough yet

Ahh it might have been 11 I was thinking, I definitely knew one option wasn't safe. I find I normally go for the hat trap alot more with 112124 because it builds so much meter although it's becoming a bad habit, I need to be less predictable. How do you mean you are using both thumbs?

 

[The PantyChrist]

Ahh it might have been 11 I was thinking, I definitely knew one option wasn't safe. I find I normally go for the hat trap alot more with 112124 because it builds so much meter although it's becoming a bad habit, I need to be less predictable. How do you mean you are using both thumbs?

rt =right thumb, lt = left thumb.
Rt 112 lt 1 rt 24. This is how I'm doing it now but once you get the rhythm it's definitely better to do it with 1 hand

 

[ShredMinor]

rt =right thumb, lt = left thumb.
Rt 112 lt 1 rt 24. This is how I'm doing it now but once you get the rhythm it's definitely better to do it with 1 hand

I see, do you land the string consistently? does that hinder your movement having to let go of the d pad?

 

[The PantyChrist]

Yeah more consistently than 1 hand right now, and yes it has cost me a few times having to move my hand back a couple times.
Probably just a few in game frames but still that could be the difference of walking/ dashing/ or spinning in time or getting hit for 30-40%

 

[llabslb]

It's easy as hell to do it on a stick or hit box but since I play on pad ide use two fingers for 112124

 

[ShredMinor]

Yeah more consistently than 1 hand right now, and yes it has cost me a few times having to move my hand back a couple times.
Probably just a few in game frames but still that could be the difference of walking/ dashing/ or spinning in time or getting hit for 30-40%

Yeah that's what I was thinking, that small movement would really bother me because I have to sacrifice some stuff, but if it's starting to work for you that's great can you punish with the string well?

 

[ShredMinor]

It's easy as hell to do it on a stick or hit box but since I play on pad ide use two fingers for 112124

Yeah I have tried moving my hand over the pad so my fingers are on top rather than grabbing the pad but I had the problem of trying to use run or meter burning stuff so I just hold the pad normally, I didn't have the patience to adjust to that lol but I have the string down now so I'm happy

 

[The PantyChrist]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, that small movement would really bother me because I have to sacrifice some stuff, but if it's starting to work for you that's great can you punish with the string well?

Yes you start the string with your right thumb. So 112 and as you are doing this you are moving your left hand to do the rest

 

[ShredMinor]

Yes you start the string with your right thumb. So 112 and as you are doing this you are moving your left hand to do the rest

Ah ok by the way do you or anyone know how quick the hat trap is? In the game is just says 1 frame and is -25 lol

 

[just_2swift]

It's easy as hell to do it on a stick or hit box but since I play on pad ide use two fingers for 112124

Tap 11 then slide your thumb in a circular motion between 2 and back to 1 then 4. Don't mash it but remember you must input everything before the 11 is finished. I recently got a hori fc4 and its a lot easier to do.

 

[llabslb]

Tap 11 then slide your thumb in a circular motion between 2 and back to 1 then 4. Don't mash it but remember you must input everything before the 11 is finished. I recently got a hori fc4 and its a lot easier to do.

I'm already comfortable with my method but thanks

 

[just_2swift]

I'm already comfortable with my method but thanks

Good to hear.

 

[The PantyChrist]

So did the jump test. 11212 trap seems kinda shitty on block. Interestingly 112124 and s4 seem to be decent. Gonna keep testing though

 

[Eddy Wang]

Hat Trick is mad fun, but i can't deny that its functionally flawed, as long as his 3 biggest flaws don't get fixed i don't think that variation will be competitive viable.

1. Hat callback hitbox needs to be slightly increased, there are characters on neutral crouch or crouch block where Hat Callback keeps whiffing when you need them to block that hat to apply pressure, its currently annoying because F2 is his fasted mid to prevent ppl to poke out of his corner game when you know they will try to prevent 112124~HCB to build meter, besides that, converting hat calls against ppl crouching is impratical and is hurting his game a lot, he can't convert his damage when needed, he can't apply pressure when needed, buffing the other characters hurtboxes to make strings connect didn't solved Hat Trick issue, as well as giving him damage buff on Hat-a-Rang which majority of the Hat Trick community already said it wasn't that needed.

2. Above hat Trap needs to have an additional command so i can put the hat above and further ahead on from KL so i can actually make my forward traps and above traps useful.

3. Away Hat trap is his best and most threatening setup, but is also the second least useful because there is no real reason to have the hat behind Lao, because when the Lao is between the opponent and the hat, he doesn't have a real launcher to capitalize on ppl panicking for this beautiful setup and he doesn't get mostly nothing in return when we have characters that can keep running away from his traps like teleporters just to get on the good side of the screen where he doesn't get nothing on return, he becomes a sitting duck and nothing is on his favor unless the opponent blocks.

Aside of the lack of this trap being useful, the current use of forward trap makes Hat Trick's game way too linear and out of options, this variation NEEDS to link 44, F23, and 112124, after an hat call back from 11212, it will make his away trap useful, it will become tournament viable, and will make him technical fun to learn.

I currently finish one video to adress this last issue, lets see if i can upload the damn video today, the one with the hat whiffing will upload afterwards.

 

[ETC Mcfly]

a small contribution

MKX: Kung Lao (Hat Trick) - 2 Viable Setups Corner To @Eddy Wang & @I GOT HANDS

 

[The PantyChrist]

So f2 trap is not safe vs almost anything it seems. F21 is safe vs 10f reversals but not 9 f reversals

 

[Eddy Wang]

So f2 trap is not safe vs almost anything it seems. F21 is safe vs 10f reversals but not 9 f reversals

F2 is already -1, you have a better mix up game because you can space out retaliations in the neutral game or D4 check since they're mostly expecting F2~trap, there is no point on doing F2~trap unless F2 connects in the corner which gives you free pressure into HCB of course.

B2~trap on the other hand is a usefull tool, most ppl expect B22~trap which is pseudo-safe against some characters, doing B2~trap catches ppl trying to retaliate thinking is B22~trap.

 

[The PantyChrist]

I know this. Just throwing it out there. Personally I use f2 a lot on its own and get counter poked or armored on follow up. If I had done f23 I also would have been armored out. F21 is not armorable and actually is mostly safe to throw hat out.

I guess it also may be one of the farther reaching strings/ normals that is safe for trap

 

[I GOT HANDS]

F23 hat is unsafe tho right?

What's the frame data on F23xxHat and B2xxHat if anyone knows?

B22xxHat is -6 right?