What
That's where you are both wrong. Any character with a power level advantage over 95% of the cast needs nerfs. Hell any character with a power level advantage over just 60% of the cast needs nerfs. This is what balance is, Tempest is one of the main offenders at the moment.
That could be really sweet especially if we could make F23 safe with it. But these things would also do stuff like make his B22 probably neutral or extremely close to it, his 112124 as well. Might just make him ridiculous.
So based off that scale tempest breaks the game by your logic. I'm interested in how you calculated and came to this conclusion.
You think Hat Trick having B22 and 112124 hat trap cancels being neutral would make it "ridiculous"? It's a pretty mediocre variation as it is, I hardly think that would make it stupid lol.
"Breaks the game"? It takes a lot to break the game man. Even the most lopsided match-up in the game doesn't break it. However, if Tempest and a fair few other characters variations were balanced, they would be a bit weaker. Largely outclassing into obscurity his other two perfectly viable variations is also good indicator of this, everything else aside. I'd like to know how you come to the conclusion that being a top 3 character in a game with close to 30 characters and rampant balance issues, makes you one of the characters who DOESN'T need a bit of tuning.
Mediocre VARIATION, perfectly fine character. There is no way Hat Trick is in the weaker half of the cast comparing them invidually, the reason Hat Trick's never seen is not because of a power level issue I mean even Goro, F/T and Jason have seen far more play than him, and he's obviously stronger than them. The reason he's not seen is because as a variation the actual tangible benefits to picking him over Tempest are pretty obscure. And meterless neutral 112124's into set-up seems pretty strong to me, maybe not ridiculous I was just copying the termanology used above, but not a good gameplay design change imo
Yeah, mediocre variation, which is what we're referring to here and not the character as a whole... Why would 112124~trap being neutral be a bad gameplay design change for a mediocre variation though? It still wouldn't give you reason to pick it over Tempest since it doesn't increase your damage output, you're still not even plus so you still have to risk spin to beat out the majority of your opponent's options and Hat Trick's pressure game wouldn't even get that much better because he'd only in this hypothetical situation be getting one strings hat trap cancel increased by a few frames. If it wants to be touched competitively it actually does need something and this wouldn't even be enough. This would barely be anything tbh lol.
Well, you can't just look at it in a vacuum and give Kung Lao what Kung Lao needs in comparison to different Kung Lao variations.... there is a whole roster of characters out there. If we want to look at his external balance, Hat Trick and Buzz Saw aren't too far off being just fine, and if we want to look at internal balance, it's Tempest who needs to be brought down to the level of the other two variations. We can't just ask for every change to be a buff because it benefits us.
Well yeah, that's why I'm discussing him as a variation and not as part of the character like I said lol. We're not asking for buffs because it benefits us, we're asking for them so it gives all variations a close to equal chance of viability which is the point of the variation system in the first place.
Sorry, I didn't mean it like that we are downplaying in here or anything, I just meant that it's ok to want internal balance for the variations, we just have to look at external balance as well as internal. If we want to give all variations an equal chance of viability, turning down Tempest is the best way to accomplish this.
Hahaha yeah I should've differentiated the two. I was thinking the same thing though, definitely easier to convert off of a spin.