General/Other - Sonya Blade Sonya General Discussion Thread

[Youphemism]

Dude, if you really played Demo like you said, you would definitely see what I'm talking about without repeating "this is the worst logic", "this argument is flawed", "this is really vague". Do I really need to get into the nitty gritty of why Demo has the highest damage, for example? Like, I'm not saying that Demo has the highest damage just because of the Xray, because I shit you not, that scenario which the opponent gets hits with the Xray when she has three grenades isn't something that "never ever happens".

By "better conversions" I mean... Imagine the following scenario: Sonya throws a grenade, the opponent jumps and they get hit. Bam, she just runs and gets lots of damage. Or when she does an air to air ji1, in her other variations she would only do 12 121 xx leg grab, but in Demo she gets lots of damage in situations like these, which makes me think it has better conversions.

Bake n wake is a wonderful tool. It costs 2 grenades, but it's a meterless 15% wakeup that she can combo off of and is only -9 on block. That's why I think Demo has better wakeup.

What does me playing Demo have to do with you not backing up your points? I don't want you to just tell me Demo does more damage, prove it. Show me that Demo has higher damaging bnbs than Special Forces. Notate their practical bnbs and compare the damage. If you're just going to make blank vague statements that aren't backed up with any facts/evidence then why would I believe you? It's like me saying Kanos best variation is Cutthroat without telling you why. You could take my word for it but why would you when I haven't actually provided you with any meaningful information to back that up? See where I'm coming from?

Ok so you mean easier to get conversions from? I'd agree with that, stun grenades make for easy conversions. But even then the ease of your conversions might not mean as much if you're not getting a huge reward for it but SF doing more damage has still to be determined.

Ok I agree with that, I just wish you would have explained that the first time lol.

As far as damage goes there's no point in comparing because SF does more than Demo with one grenade, they do about the same with two grenades and Demo does a bit more with three lol.

Gotcha. I don't follow this forum too hard. Busy trying to get the most out of my empress lol. Makes more sense when you put it that way though. In that case, you guys carry on. I'll assume that Youphemism only follows as closely as I do though. I've never noticed Dedlock's name before, but that might be because he doesn't have an avatar. That's usually how I associate posters in my memory.

But for real, the easiest way to settle this is through KOMBAT.

You two fight it out. Demolition vs Special Forces on stream October 24th.

P.S. I think it's actually a losing matchup for Demolition.

Pfft my internet? Stream MKX? Good luck with that He's probably too scared anyway

They can't settle it via Kombat. Too far away for god-tier NRS netkode to handle.

Youph is like, all the way in Ireland

I find this racist, offensive and any other related adjective sir. I am Scottish, you damn Muricans need to learnarise your geographynessisms

 

[errormacro7]

What does me playing Demo have to do with you not backing up your points? I don't want you to just tell me Demo does more damage, prove it. Show me that Demo has higher damaging bnbs than Special Forces. Notate their practical bnbs and compare the damage. If you're just going to make blank vague statements that aren't backed up with any facts/evidence then why would I believe you? It's like me saying Kanos best variation is Cutthroat without telling you why. You could take my word for it but why would you when I haven't actually provided you with any meaningful information to back that up? See where I'm coming from?

Ok so you mean easier to get conversions from? I'd agree with that, stun grenades make for easy conversions. But even then the ease of your conversions might not mean as much if you're not getting a huge reward for it but SF doing more damage has still to be determined.

Ok I agree with that, I just wish you would have explained that the first time lol.

As far as damage goes there's no point in comparing because SF does more than Demo with one grenade, they do about the same with two grenades and Demo does a bit more with three lol.

Ok.

 

[Skedar70]

I think Demo is the best one. I have recently been playing special forces and its really fun but its a little bit harder to use since the cancels to the drone attack are a little harder and if you miss them you are left unsafe and punished(For example b14 into BLK+1). I think the damage is higher in Demo I usually get around 34-35%(with three grenades) while in special forces I get 29-32(I might not be performing her best combos though). You can argue that you need three grenades to get the highest damage and sometimes you only have 1 but the same applies to SF sometimes the drone isn't out when you land a hit so you have to do a different combo(I usually do something and cancel into drone call). BLK+2 is excellent for controlling space and getting in but so is far grenade toss(which also works as a good anti air). Mmm this is hard but I still feel Demo.

 

[Tony at Home]

Which variation is best is of really low importance. I think it answers the question of "if I have no clue what character I'm up against, which variation should I default on" and that's about it.

Even then, that's not a great question to be asking much because if you default on that people will just default on Predator or Scorpion and take your lunch money all day.

I find myself using a pretty even mix, some examples:

Covert Ops
Predator
Johnny Cage
Scorpion
Takeda

Droneya
Kitana
Tanya
Liu Kang

Demolitions
Kung Jin
Ferra/Torr
Lao
Sub Zero

 

[RozayMcTang]

Guys... Sonyas best variation is CLEARLY reverse cowgirl (apologies for the Captain Morgan fueled response)

 

[Tony at Home]

Guys... Sonyas best variation is CLEARLY reverse cowgirl (apologies for the Captain Morgan fueled response)

F* you. Wheelbarrow top tier.

(Jim Beam fueled response)

 

[Dedlock]

Are the videos up of the the tournament, I want to rewatch all of Scar's matches and also Showtime did really great with Covert Ops but that Alucard Kotal matchup exposed all of Covert Ops Weaknesses, I really felt frustrated because he played great but literally every move he did was a risk and he paid for it.

I mean people go Covert Ops Sonya is mix up after mix up, do they even see how much room is there to prevent and punish those mixups from happening, also I laughed when the commentators said Sonya has the best D2 in the game, loooooooooooooooooool, really, I would say she has the worst D2 in the game.

Any youtube links to the matches.

 

[Speedsterr]

Are the videos up of the the tournament, I want to rewatch all of Scar's matches and also Showtime did really great with Covert Ops but that Alucard Kotal matchup exposed all of Covert Ops Weaknesses,I really felt frustrating because he played great but literally every move he did was a risk and he paid for it.

I mean people go Covert Ops Sonya is mix up after mix up, do they even see how much room is there to prevent and punish those mixups from happening, also I laughed when the commentators said Sonya has the best D2 in the game, loooooooooooooooooool, really, I would say she has the worst D2 in the game.

Any youtube links to the matches.

Here is the Twitch archive - http://www.twitch.tv/pandaxgaming/v/18054999

At work atm so cannot check the time MK starts. But I believe it was around 2hourish in the video.

I would actually agree that her D2 is one of the best in game.

 

[Dedlock]

Here is the Twitch archive - http://www.twitch.tv/pandaxgaming/v/18054999

At work atm so cannot check the time MK starts. But I believe it was around 2hourish in the video.

I would actually agree that her D2 is one of the best in game.

tks, these should be youtubed there are some great matches with nice variety in play.

 

[Skedar70]

Is Scar's match on youtube? I'd like to see.

Here is the finals

These are some of the Bnb scar used
B332 FG NJP walk 121 FG F4 cancel first hit into FG F4 DD1 36% with safe reload
B332 FG NJP walk 121 FG F4 cancel first hit into FG F4 cancel first hit into BF 4 38% no reload
121 FG rc 21 FG NJP F4 cancel first hit into FG F4 DD1 34%
B14 rc 21 FG NJP F4 cancel first hit into FG F4 DD1 35%

Corner
B332 FG NJP S4 FG S4 FG D2 121 BF4 47%(He used a bar at the end so it probably does less damage)

 

[Espio]

So, I'm finally getting the hang of Special Forces. I get how the character is played, and after many hours of boring soul-crushing repitition, I've finally managed to get down the horrible, awful, arbitrary timing of her low-drone cancels.

Special Forces Sonya is DEFINITELY a very good character. 30+% meterless combos that are safe on block? Strong zoning? Strong rushdown? Hell yeah. I mean, she has her weaknesses just like her other two variations do. But I definitely can't fathom why I never seem to see this variation played anymore.

(But seriously, we should definitely be asking for her drone cancels to be fixed before NRS is done with this game. This is absurd. Even if I only miss 1 out of every 5 times, that 1 time I miss is going to be full-combo punishable.)

I think I'm gonna go back to playing Sonya. I always loved this variation, but I do concur, the cancel window has always been janky and awkward, which is only amplified by online play lol. That's the only thing I don't like about it, otherwise it's a pretty legit, diverse variation. It's so good versus Grandmaster Sub-Zero, helps so much with aggressive players trying to combo you too. Have you tried it versus HQT Predator? I might be giving it a good run through with her because Kitana and Goro don't seem to do spectacularly versus him.

Them fixing her back 3,3 2,2 hitbox wise makes it even more feasible to play her in a safe way till you can get drones up. That was kind of the strategy I was developing with her up until I decided to branch out and play Kitana. Forward 2/Forward 2, back 1 + Back 3,3, 2,2 + 1,1,1 and Forward 4,4. Maybe that's outdated for approaching things with her, but it seemed effective in the past.

Kitana is kind of a bust for me though and Sonya still remains fun and more forgiving.

 

[DaZengie]

I think I'm gonna go back to playing Sonya. I always loved this variation, but I do concur, the cancel window has always been janky and awkward, which is only amplified by online play lol. That's the only thing I don't like about it, otherwise it's a pretty legit, diverse variation. It's so good versus Grandmaster Sub-Zero, helps so much with aggressive players trying to combo you too. Have you tried it versus HQT Predator? I might be giving it a good run through with her because Kitana and Goro don't seem to do spectacularly versus him.

Them fixing her back 3,3 2,2 hitbox wise makes it even more feasible to play her in a safe way till you can get drones up. That was kind of the strategy I was developing with her up until I decided to branch out and play Kitana. Forward 2/Forward 2, back 1 + Back 3,3, 2,2 + 1,1,1 and Forward 4,4. Maybe that's outdated for approaching things with her, but it seemed effective in the past.

Kitana is kind of a bust for me though and Sonya still remains fun and more forgiving.

You're right on that. Your ability to do well with SF online is so dependent on the lag because of the strict timing window. It's the variation I have the most fun with yet I cannot play it effectively online so I've been branching out to learning other characters since Evo. I'm glad I did though, because I learned more about the game, but I'm going to continue where I left off with Sonya. I haven't tried SF against HQT predator. I've only used CO, before the predator "nerf" and Sonya hitbox patch came out. Results are mixed. I wrote a blurb on it in the match up thread a few months ago so maybe that can help you out.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Do you think NRS should change the B142 string input into something like B14U2? Currently delayed wakeup is a pain in the ass for CO when you try to do mixup on knock down, but because MS input is db2 if B14 whiffs the last punishable hit will come out. This issue doesn't happen with SF and Demo since their launchers are on other buttons

 

[Tony at Home]

Do you think NRS should change the B142 string input into something like B14U2? Currently delayed wakeup is a pain in the ass for CO when you try to do mixup on knock down, but because MS input is db2 if B14 whiffs the last punishable hit will come out. This issue doesn't happen with SF and Demo since their launchers are on other buttons

CO Sonya does not need buffs.

 

[errormacro7]

CO Sonya does not need buffs.

This.

 

[scarsunseen]

This.

This.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

CO Sonya does not need buffs.

It's a fix to stop CO from killing herself everytime opponents delay wake up. I watch Que Beat on GGA stream for many weeks. He usually got punished because of B142 instead of B14 MS

 

[Youphemism]

It's a fix to stop CO from killing herself everytime opponents delay wake up. I watch Que Beat on GGA stream for many weeks. He usually got punished because of B142 instead of B14 MS

Or you could just hit confirm....

 

[Dedlock]

Ever since the major update patch in early September I feel like the game has gotten smoother and hitboxes feel more reliable, I find myself being able to parry alot more now than I used to, whilst Sonya (covert ops) might not have been given any significant changes in the last couple of patches I feel the improvements to the game as a whole, has improved my game.

Furthermore, I dont find myself being bullied by Ermac like I used to be things are more even now. I've also managed to win alot of Quan Chis and Shinnoks post nerfs. I still find Kitana a XXXX but its nice to see her damage is not that stinging like it used to be.

 

[Ninequads93]

Don't know if this has been discussed yet but u can get a safe drone call into spark off 112 (works if they tech roll as well)

So far idk if it's a height thing or you just have to input it as quick as possible Will test more later

Also midscreen 42% Meterless 44% one bar

My apologies if this is already known

If I can figure out what the timing or whatver Is then we might b able to get 42% into setup

Forgot to mention you can also do low drone into overhead and it'll blow up wakeups as well but can't get much damage

 

[Tony at Home]

Standing 3 is a godlike AA move in Demo given the conversions you can get off it.

The move itself AA's very nicely against many moves because Sonya ducks very far down and puts her leg up so you basically have the optimal hitbox/hurtbox needed for AA-ing.

The timing for the followup juggle is quite easy, but if you want to make it even easier, then you can replace the 121 with a d1. Then go into shock grenade and combo as you see fit.

 

[skater11]

Standing 3 is a godlike AA move in Demo given the conversions you can get off it.

The move itself AA's very nicely against many moves because Sonya ducks very far down and puts her leg up so you basically have the optimal hitbox/hurtbox needed for AA-ing.

The timing for the followup juggle is quite easy, but if you want to make it even easier, then you can replace the 121 with a d1. Then go into shock grenade and combo as you see fit.

Exactly as show in your video, I was going to mention that this only works off semi cross over jump-ins(those weird jump ins like shown in the video). I've been messing with this since like May but never really implemented in my anti air game. It's really good but I've yet to use it in actual matches. Overall, good share and I hope others get a kick out of it. It can really come in handy when you are inside trip guard range and have to react semi fast but want more than an uppercut.

 

[Espio]

It's a fix to stop CO from killing herself everytime opponents delay wake up. I watch Que Beat on GGA stream for many weeks. He usually got punished because of B142 instead of B14 MS

When everyone tries to face roll their controller on knockdown and people delay they are punishable across characters.

If people don't wanna be punished, they should make a read instead of just running up and doing a mix up and just hoping it hits instead of playing fundamentally solid. If she guesses wrong she should pay for it like her opponent has to pay when they're wrong.

 

[Tony at Home]

My go-to setup with Sonya right now (vs most characters. For low/slide wakeup characters I do a different variation on this)

This is a corner carry setup. This video starts from starting position in the stage. From there you can actually carry your opponent all the way to the corner with just two grenades, and end with a hard knockdown. This means you still have one grenade down the hatch to use to make a followup safe.

Given you have a MASSIVE hard knockdown advantage of this ender, you have plenty of time to call in EX drone and get a free safe jump into a mixup. If they disrespect the drone, it's a meterless 30% juggle for you into another hard knockown, and you still have that one grenade left so no need to do a punishable corner-reload.

In order to get this level of corner carry you need to delay your grenade detonations off the opponent's hit-stagger. Let Sonya get out of her grenade recovery before you detonate so you can start your run and push them further.

You can compensate for online by sacrificing some of the distance. The corner carry is still excellent if you aren't perfect on your detonation timing. I was actually able to carry the opponent even further than that and space it out so I was in a range in which BOTH grenades of the EX Reload Drone would hit if they didn't do delay.

 

[Tony at Home]

Same setup, here. Still full corner carry from starting position (I found 213 instead of 21 gave me a bit better carry + more damage).

Both Lao and Sub Zero's EX wakeups are 7 frames. Lao wins the trade and can full combo you, but Sub Zero (and pretty much any other member of the cast) does not. So instead of a safe jump, if you are close enough you can just go into your regular 50/50. Will trade with armored 7 frame wakeups, but anything more than that you flat out stuff it.

This stage in particular is a bit smaller than others though. On wider arenas like the forest you will probably be using the safe jump more because you will otherwise be out of range of b3.