General/Other - Ferra/Torr Jacqui Loops - Ferra/Torr oddity

[rev0lver]

@Doombawkz @EGP Wonder_Chef

i've found when recreating things, i cannot find a single instance where 4~uprocket can hit after 1212~uprocket midscreen or in the corner. i even picked the same stage, costume, and variation you were doing in the video. i don't know if it's just a random thing that sometimes happens, but chef doesn't seem to be able to get it either

as far as the walk infinite goes. i've done multiple recordings to see if there's any variations in the timing, and it seems like this becomes impossible if the uprockets are blocked standing. there's different pushback depending on whether the rockets are blocked standing and ducking. (edit: it actually seems like different advantage, s1 still hits on block but you can armor/backdash through). so technically there's still a mixup because it guarantees a s4 followup (except for half the time it whiffs) but s4 only has enough cancel advantage to guarantee bf1 if it's blocked

so as far as i can tell you just have to block rockets standing. which is counter intuitive but it doesn't make a real difference in this mu

 

[Rip Torn]

@Doombawkz @EGP Wonder_Chef

i've found when recreating things, i cannot find a single instance where 4~uprocket can hit after 1212~uprocket midscreen or in the corner. i even picked the same stage, costume, and variation you were doing in the video. i don't know if it's just a random thing that sometimes happens, but chef doesn't seem to be able to get it either

as far as the walk infinite goes. i've done multiple recordings to see if there's any variations in the timing, and it seems like this becomes impossible if the uprockets are blocked standing. there's different pushback depending on whether the rockets are blocked standing and ducking. (edit: it actually seems like different advantage, s1 still hits on block but you can armor/backdash through). so technically there's still a mixup because it guarantees a s4 followup (except for half the time it whiffs) but s4 only has enough cancel advantage to guarantee bf1 if it's blocked

so as far as i can tell you just have to block rockets standing. which is counter intuitive but it doesn't make a real difference in this mu

I agree 100% with this and you'll find my previous posts where I tested things and came to the same conclusions. 1212~uprocket, walk 1212~uprocket walk is not, in itself, a block infinite, but it does cause one of the dumbest guessing games in the game (especially in the corner). It's 95% in Jacqui's favor. In the corner, 1212~uprocket leads to a full combo, is +11 on block, and can't be escaped without armor because the next 1212 will hit the backdash. The meter build is rediculous with the 4 guaranteed reps of 1212~uprocket, run loops.

With meter, Jacqui can also bait you into blocking mb uprockets, which will guarantee another 1212~uprocket or 50/50 of her choice. There may be the possibility of a block infinite in this sense of using meter to gain more advantage to jail into 1212~uprocket while gaining stamina back and then using the stamina to gain meter back. I haven't had the time to test that and I'm not sure if I will.

One thing I know for sure is that you can't simply test if strings jail into high blocking by setting the cpu to block always/stance/duck. There are strings that force the cpu to stand, but a human can continue to block low. I'm not sure why this happens. Also, you need to be able to test the possibility of neutral ducking high specials like uprocket and mb uprocket after various strings. Some characters can and some can't.

 

[BillStickers]

R A N D O M A D V A N T A G E B O Y Z

 

[Doombawkz]

One thing I know for sure is that you can't simply test if strings jail into high blocking by setting the cpu to block always/stance/duck. There are strings that force the cpu to stand, but a human can continue to block low. I'm not sure why this happens. Also, you need to be able to test the possibility of neutral ducking high specials like uprocket and mb uprocket after various strings. Some characters can and some can't.

When I tested it, I was the Torr and I was blocking low as a human. Still got caught. :/

 

[Rip Torn]

When I tested it, I was the Torr and I was blocking low as a human. Still got caught. :/

What are you getting caught by? The standing 4~uprocket? You appear to be moving forward a tiny bit in your video. In that case, you introduce a gap between uprocket and standing 4. Or you could just neutral duck uprocket after standing 4.

 

[Doombawkz]

What are you getting caught by? The standing 4~uprocket? You appear to be moving forward a tiny bit in your video. In that case, you introduce a gap between uprocket and standing 4. Or you could just neutral duck uprocket after standing 4.

I didn't move at all, unless you mean the jacqui in which case I had her recorded to be doing the stuff so that still wouldn't make sense. :/

 

[Rip Torn]

I didn't move at all, unless you mean the jacqui in which case I had her recorded to be doing the stuff so that still wouldn't make sense. :/

I'm talking about Jacqui in this video:

It looks like she is moving forward between uprocket and standing 4, which would introduce a gap.

The inconsistencies you are seeing in your video are likely related to breathing animations, but that doesn't mean you can't neutral duck after standing 4, or armor out. It just means that this game has inconsistent hurtboxes due to breathing animations, which is already known.

 

[Doombawkz]

I'm talking about Jacqui in this video:

It looks like she is moving forward between uprocket and standing 4, which would introduce a gap.

The inconsistencies you are seeing in your video are likely related to breathing animations, but that doesn't mean you can't neutral duck after standing 4, or armor out. It just means that this game has inconsistent hurtboxes due to breathing animations, which is already known.

Thats the problem though.

I was the Ferra/Torr, and the Jacqui was the AI recorded to do the combo. Her doing the combo was the same both times, so her "moving forward" doesn't make sense because her first combo and 2nd combo were the same exact combo. My issue isn't so much the gap as the fact that in one instance it whiffs the missle, and in the second it hits.

Thats why I said maybe its the blocking animations because when it missed Torr kinda just soaked the hit, but when it landed his arm went up in the blocking animation. That actually ended up being a little more consistent than me assuming that its completely random or because of breathing (in which Torr mostly just slowly gyrates his lower half in a semi-seductive manner)

 

[Rip Torn]

Thats the problem though.

I was the Ferra/Torr, and the Jacqui was the AI recorded to do the combo. Her doing the combo was the same both times, so her "moving forward" doesn't make sense because her first combo and 2nd combo were the same exact combo. My issue isn't so much the gap as the fact that in one instance it whiffs the missle, and in the second it hits.

My point was that you recorded the AI with a slight walk forward. I understood it was the same recording both times. I also explained why it whiffs one time and hits the next time.

Thats why I said maybe its the blocking animations because when it missed Torr kinda just soaked the hit, but when it landed his arm went up in the blocking animation. That actually ended up being a little more consistent than me assuming that its completely random or because of breathing (in which Torr mostly just slowly gyrates his lower half in a semi-seductive manner)

I not seeing a difference in the block animation, to be honest. I looked at the video over and over and the animation looks the same. It's most likely breathing animation issues with the hurtboxes as this has already been confirmed by Paulo in other situations. Just because Torr doesn't animate much doesn't mean that his hurtbox isn't slightly changing.

 

[Doombawkz]

My point was that you recorded the AI with a slight walk forward. I understood it was the same recording both times. I also explained why it whiffs one time and hits the next time.



I not seeing a difference in the block animation, to be honest. I looked at the video over and over and the animation looks the same. It's most likely breathing animation issues with the hurtboxes as this has already been confirmed by Paulo in other situations. Just because Torr doesn't animate much doesn't mean that his hurtbox isn't slightly changing.

Maybe? Idk, it confuses me.
I didn't record Jacqui walking forward any, but eh... beats me. I don't even know anymore.

 

[Rip Torn]

Maybe? Idk, it confuses me.
I didn't record Jacqui walking forward any, but eh... beats me. I don't even know anymore.

I don't know for sure, but Jacqui has had tons of issues with these breathing hurtboxes in the past, which is why it's not surprising to me at this point. I do agree that it's dumb and these things should be fixed because fighting games shouldn't have this type of random factor.