Guide - Flame Fists Flame fist guide

[Percimon]

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Spoiler: I. Idea of variation

Idea of Flame Fist variation is all about damage buff of punching attacks and fireballs, mad chip damage and, sometimes, catching opponent with help of parry.

Spoiler: II. Chip damage info

1) It's not important, what version of dd1 special move you'll use: the difference between dd1 and ex-dd1 is startup and duration;
2) fbf4 и ex-fbf4 have 8 hit: each of them does 0,45% of damage (only in ex-fbf1 8th does 1,88% of damage). When you use dd1, each hit does 0,17%*3 of damage additionally;
3) Chip damage of fbf4 without dd1: 8 * 0,45% = 3,6%;
4) Chip damage of ex-fbf4 without dd1: 7 * 0,45% + 1,88% = 5,03%;
5) Chip damage of fbf4 with dd1: 8 * 0,45% + 8 * 3 * 0,17 = 7,68%;
6) Chip damage of ex-fbf4 with dd1: 7 * 0,45% + 1,88% + 8 * 3 * 0,17 = 9,11%.
7) Chip damage of bf1 and bf3 without dd1: 1.88%;
8) Chip damage of bf1 and bf3 with dd1:: 2.81%;
9) Chip damage of ex-bf1 without dd1: 2.25 %.
10) Chip damage of ex-bf1 with dd1: 3.38%.

Spoiler: III. ex-dd1 cancel into throw

This tech is safe on block, but it can be interrupted by armored attacks.

Inputs for this video
1) 44, ex-dd1, L1;
2) 112, ex-dd1, L1;
3) f213, ex-dd1, L1;
4) b34, ex-dd1, L1;
5) 44, ex-dd1, L1;
6) f44, ex-dd1, L1.

Spoiler: IV. ex-dd1 as combo extender

Starter:
1) 111;
2) 112;
3) f3;
4) b12;
5) f21;
6) f4;
7) b34;
8) 4;
9) 3.
Extender:
1) ex-dd1;
2) RC, ex-dd1.
Extender after ex-dd1:
1) 1... ;
2) f1... ;
3) f2... ;
4) f4... ;
5) f3... ;
6) 4... ;​

Spoiler: V. dd1 cancel into projectiles

Here are basic attacks which can be extended into combo with dd1 -> bf1:
1) 11 (overall damage: 11%);
2) 112 (overall damage: 16%);
3) b12 (overall damage: 14%);
4) f12 (overall damage: 12%);
5) f21 (overall damage: 13%);
6) b34 (overall damage: 15%);
7) 4 (overall damage: 13%);
8) 3 (overall damage: 15%);
9) f3 (overall damage: 13%).
Here are basic attacks which can be extended into combo with dd1 -> bf3:
1) 11 (overall damage: 11%);
2) 112 (overall damage: 16%);
3) b12 (overall damage: 14%);
4) f12 (overall damage: 12%);
5) f21 (overall damage: 13%);
6) b34 (overall damage: 15%);
7) 4 (overall damage: 13%);
8) 3 (overall damage: 15%);
9) f3 (overall damage: 13%).
10) b33 (overall damage: 15%);
11) f44 (overall damage:: 17%).
Here are basic attacks which can be extended into combo with dd1 -> bf3:
1) attacks 1-10 from last list.

Spoiler: VI. Armored reversals versus Windmill Punch

Firstly, check video:

Q: How can I do it?
A: inputs are: 112 -> dd1 -> fbf4. You should press fbf4, when animation of dd1 starts!
Q: Does it work with every character?
A: Yes
Q: Does it work with every special move of each character (including X-RAY)?
A: No. Here are exclusions:
а) X-RAY of these characters can't be crushed by fbf4 or ex-fbf4:
- Jason Voorhees;
- Kung Lao;
- Sonya Blade;
- Kenshi;
- Sub Zero;
- Kitana;
- Cassie Cage;
- Jacqueline Briggs;
- Predator;
- Ermac;
- Reptile.
b) ex-special moves that can't be crushed by fbf4 or ex-fbf4:
- Ferra/Torr: Grab'n'Stab;
- Goro: Shokan Slam (in ex-fbf4 case both players will get hit);
c) ex-special moves that can't be crushed by fbf4, BUT can be crushed by ex-fbf4:
- Kung Lao: Vortex/Cyclone;
- Cassie Cage: Power Flip;
- Kano: Uprise ball.
d) parries which work with fbf4 and ex-fbf4:
- Sonya Blade: Garrote Punish;
- Sub zero: ex-Ice clone; Barrier of ice;
- Kano: Survivor's Counter; High Counter;
- Liu Kang: Dragon's Parry.
e) ex-special moves that evade fbf4 or ex-fbf4:
- Sub Zero: ex-ice clone;
- Raiden: ex-teleport;
- Mileena: Vanish towards/backwards;
- Ermac: Vanish.​

Spoiler: VII. Combos (midscreen)

Inputs for this video (RC - run cancel):
1) jump in + 2, 113, b34, fbf4, db2 - 30%;
2) jump in + 2, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, db2 - 29%;
3) jump in + 2, b34, fbf4, db2 - 27%;
4) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, bf2 - 33%;
5) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 112, fbf4, bf2 - 32%;
6) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, db2 - 34%;
7) jump in + 2, f21, ex-dd1, RC, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, db2 - 34%;
8) jump in + 2, f21, ex-dd1, RC, 112, fbf4, bf2 - 32%.

Inputs for this video
1) jump in + 2, b34, ex-dd1, 113, b12, f21, fbf4, bf3 - 37%;
2) jump in + 2, b34, ex-dd1, 112, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
3) jump in + 2, 4, ex-dd1, 113, b12, f21, fbf4, bf3 - 35%.

Inputs for this video
1) 112, dd1, fbf4, db2 (bf3) - 26% (27%);
2) b33, dd1, fbf4, db2 - 27%;
3) b34, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 28%.

Spoiler: VIII. Combos (corner)

Inputs for this video:
1) jump in + 2, b34, d1, u4, u4, u4, f44, fbf4, bf3 - 34%;
2) jump in + 2, b34, b12, f44, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
3) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, b12, 112, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
4) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, u4, NJP, d2, f4, fbf4, bf3 - 33%.

Inputs for this video​

1) jump in + 2, b34, ex-dd1, 113, b12, 1, 1, 112, ffb4, bf1 - 39%

Inputs for this video​

1) 112, fbf4, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 33%;
2) b34, fbf4, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 33%;
3) f44, fbf4, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 34%.

Inputs for this video​

1) 112, fbf4, dd1, ex-fbf4, pause, db2, f12, fbf4, bf1 - 41%.

Inputs:
1) 112, fbf4, dd1, ex-fbf4, ex-bf1, b12, 112, fbf4, bf1 - 46%

​

 

[stamatis]

Nice.....!

 

[KIllaByte]

Liu Kang's up 4 scales horribly... might want to omit that in combos.

 

[Percimon]

Main post is updated!

 

[Barrogh]

It's "chip" damage, man. Nothing cheap about being generally minus

 

[Work In Progress]

Just wanted to say thank you for the guide! It has helped me out a lot!

 

[Percimon]

Just wanted to say thank you for the guide! It has helped me out a lot!

You are welcome!

 

[Work In Progress]

Just a little corner combo. Please let me know if this is already known or not optimal.
11,ex dd1, 113, 3, b12, f12, fbf4, bf1 42%

 

[Black Chapters]

 

[Percimon]

Guide is updated!

 

[Percimon]

Changes of guide:

Spoiler: Change 1

Information about usage of dd1
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Here are basic attacks which can be chained into combo with dd1 -> bf1:
1) 11 (overall damage: 11%);

2) 112 (overall damage: 16%);

3) b12 (overall damage: 14%);

4) f12 (overall damage: 12%);

5) f21 (overall damage: 13%);

6) b34 (overall damage: 15%);

7) 4 (overall damage: 13%);

8) 3 (overall damage: 15%);

9) f3 (overall damage: 13%).
Here are basic attacks which can be chained into combo with dd1 -> bf3:
1) 11 (overall damage: 11%);
2) 112 (overall damage: 16%);
3) b12 (overall damage: 14%);
4) f12 (overall damage: 12%);
5) f21 (overall damage: 13%);
6) b34 (overall damage: 15%);
7) 4 (overall damage: 13%);
8) 3 (overall damage: 15%);
9) f3 (overall damage: 13%).
10) b33 (overall damage: 15%);

11) f44 (overall damage:: 17%).
Here are basic attacks which can be chained into combo with dd1 -> bf3:
1) attacks 1-10 from last list.

Spoiler: Change 2

Safe on block cancels of some basic attacks into dd1​

Description​

Basic combos: 111; 112; 3; 4; b34 can be safely on block canceled into в dd1, and then into bf1 or bf3 or fbf4.
Basic combo f123 can be safely on block canceled into dd1, and then into fbf4 (it's true blockstring). Also f123 can be safely on block canceled into dd1, and then into db2.

Spoiler: Change 3

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Inputs for this video​

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1) 112, dd1, fbf4, db2 (bf3) - 26% (27%);
2) b33, dd1, fbf4, db2 - 27%;
3) b34, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 28%.

Inputs for this video​

1) jump in + 2, b34, d1, u4, u4, u4, f44, fbf4, bf3 - 34%;
2) jump in + 2, b34, b12, f44, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
3) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, b12, 112, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
4) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, u4, NJP, d2, f4, fbf4, bf3 - 33%

 

[Percimon]

Gonna upload more new corner combos soon!

 

[LASD]

Gonna upload more new corner combos soon!

Man how are you connecting that Sf into bp to extend the combo? I've tried for like 20 minutes and i can't do it lol

 

[Percimon]

Press fbf4 when you see that dd1 actually starts, not when you pressed dd1.

 

[LASD]

Press fbf4 when you see that dd1 actually starts, not when you pressed dd1.

Thanks man. I'll try that out

 

[LASD]

Anyone have advice on what to do against Lao after you throw out the windmill punch? His cyclone leads to full combo punish since it can't be parried. The only think ive found is ex dragon roar and ex flying kick. Im pretty sure these are his only options, but just seeing if im missing something.

 

[Paaapiman]

Anyone have advice on what to do against Lao after you throw out the windmill punch? His cyclone leads to full combo punish since it can't be parried. The only think ive found is ex dragon roar and ex flying kick. Im pretty sure these are his only options, but just seeing if im missing something.

If he is always using the ex spin on block you can use your ex db2 and you both wiff and lose a bar but you recover faster and generated at least half a bar and a lot of chip damage, more with shaolin fists on (like 12% dmg if you started with f213 and 90% of a bar if you started f213 exdd1 fbf4) , once you condition him to block the ex db2 you can go back to your usual atacks but you have to remember if he has a bar you have to use your ex db2.

remember that the greatest strenght of flame fist is the bar generation and the chip damage

good luck! all hail Liu Kang!

 

[DarksydeDash]

@YOMI Zyphox Since you're the flame fist expert, is there anything you think the OP should add?

 

[Paaapiman]

@YOMI Zyphox Since you're the flame fist expert, is there anything you think the OP should add?

he was supposed to show us a new tech a few days ago but he haven't and i´m afraid that it was the f21u4 fbf4, I really hope it isn't cause it's a gimmick

edit: words

 

[LASD]

If he is always using the ex spin on block you can use your ex db2 and you both wiff and lose a bar but you recover faster and generated at least half a bar and a lot of chip damage, more with shaolin fists on (like 12% dmg if you started with f213 and 90% of a bar if you started f213 exdd1 fbf4) , once you condition him to block the ex db2 you can go back to your usual atacks but you have to remember if he has a bar you have to use your ex db2.

remember that the greatest strenght of flame fist is the bar generation and the chip damage

good luck! all hail Liu Kang!

Thank you sir! Don't want to be caught in the windmill punch if you have no meter against a meter loaded lao it seems

 

[LASD]

he was supposed to show us a new tech a few days ago but he haven't and i´m afraid that it was the f21u4 fbf4, I really hope it isn't cause it's a gimmick

edit: words

That would be new tech? I don't think so. The only new thing I can really think of is the wp after sf. It seems like a lot of people are doing that now. So it would looking something like this wp xx sf xx wp . Its just non-stop meter build. So you can only imagine the pressure you start building up when you start ex'ing wp and sf.

 

[Paaapiman]

Thank you sir! Don't want to be caught in the windmill punch if you have no meter against a meter loaded lao it seems

it is almost impossible to have no bar with flame fist, if you have a decent lead in health go for the chip damage to get your lead in bars, rememeber that you can dd1 bf3 really fast for 10% fireballs, the dd1 can be canceled into bf3 and you can destroy them, against kung laos try to zone them and once you go in try to f213 exdd1fbf 4, that builds like 90% of a bar. Also try on wake up ex fbf4 it if they pressuring you, it has one armor

 

[LASD]

it is almost impossible to have no bar with flame fist, if you have a decent lead in health go for the chip damage to get your lead in bars, rememeber that you can dd1 bf3 really fast for 10% fireballs, the dd1 can be canceled into bf3 and you can destroy them, against kung laos try to zone them and once you go in try to f213 exdd1fbf 4, that builds like 90% of a bar. Also try on wake up ex fbf4 it if they pressuring you, it has one armor

Thanks man. What do you think are Flame Fists worst match ups? I've been a liu main for a while, and the one character I seem to have the most trouble against is Takeda. They do a really good job in keeping you out. Once we're able to get in its pretty much a wrap for them, since b12 breaks all of takeda's armor. I just have a hard time punishing his b21 xx projectile when hes at 3/4 screen. and then after you read it correctly and rush in, you usually get hit with a njp. I really hate that takeda match up and usually just end up picking ermac to deal with him

 

[SylverRye]

Finally a guide for liu without people bitching about this. Thanks alot

 

[Paaapiman]

Thanks man. What do you think are Flame Fists worst match ups? I've been a liu main for a while, and the one character I seem to have the most trouble against is Takeda. They do a really good job in keeping you out. Once we're able to get in its pretty much a wrap for them, since b12 breaks all of takeda's armor. I just have a hard time punishing his b21 xx projectile when hes at 3/4 screen. and then after you read it correctly and rush in, you usually get hit with a njp. I really hate that takeda match up and usually just end up picking ermac to deal with him

i´m gonna be honest and don't know why you have problems with takeda, most or your normals are safer and faster, just run on top of him and do b12 (it is safe and breaks armor) or b12 exdd1 fbf4 or f213 exdd1 fbf4but never go against takeda in the air we suck at air attacks or even anti air. Takeda is super slow so when he drops his blades you have to armor through that

edit double dd1