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Guide - Flame Fists Flame fist guide

Kaneki

UPR Kaneki
There's no secret really. Like with every other cancelable move, you need to finish input of your special during startup frames of the move you are intending to cancel (SF in this case).
I suppose your best bet would be inputting fb slightly in advance (not too hard when you do WP~SF~WP) then be on point with your f+4 when Liu starts his dd1 motion. I recommend to stagger f+4 from the rest specifically because MKX has a story of losing inputs from buffer when working with 3-motion inputs like dbf, maybe this one isn't an exception too.
If that's correct, you may say that pressing last f and 4 simultaneously is a "secret" you're looking for. To me this was a secret to cancelling strings into grabs :p
Timing is still rather strict though.
Time to hit the lab i guess.... Thanks a lot, I think i finally understand what do now just have to practice.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
How relevant is the information in this guide?
How have patches changed him?
Not sure, but last time I've seen OP making corrections, it was after latest patch. I believe it is also true for this particular thread.
 

darklightjg1

Lost Street Fighter Player
Are there any known glitches where the fireballs retain the properties from Shaolin flame? I was in training earlier before work and the I don't know what triggered it, but at some point long after the SF ran out, the fireballs were still doing 10.5% damage. It didn't go back to doing 7% until I reactivated SF and let it run out again.
 
is there a secret to doing shaolin flame into windmill punches online I can do it like 99 percent of the time ofline but I have 2 get really lucky 2 even do it once online
 

omooba

fear the moobs
i'm
There's no guide for "Flame Fist" variation, so i decided to create it.
Let's get it started.



Information about usage of dd1
Here are basic attacks which can be chained into combo with dd1 -> bf1:
1) 11 (overall damage: 11%);
2) 112 (overall damage: 16%);
3) b12 (overall damage: 14%);
4) f12 (overall damage: 12%);
5) f21 (overall damage: 13%);
6) b34 (overall damage: 15%);
7) 4 (overall damage: 13%);
8) 3 (overall damage: 15%);
9) f3 (overall damage: 13%).
Here are basic attacks which can be chained into combo with dd1 -> bf3:
1) 11 (overall damage: 11%);
2) 112 (overall damage: 16%);
3) b12 (overall damage: 14%);
4) f12 (overall damage: 12%);
5) f21 (overall damage: 13%);
6) b34 (overall damage: 15%);
7) 4 (overall damage: 13%);
8) 3 (overall damage: 15%);
9) f3 (overall damage: 13%).

10) b33 (overall damage: 15%);
11) f44 (overall damage:: 17%).
Here are basic attacks which can be chained into combo with dd1 -> bf3:
1) attacks 1-10 from last list.

Information about usage of ex-dd1

You can use this special move (I mean, ex-version of it) as combo extender after basic attacks, which have hit advantage <= 13 frames. Here they are:

1) b12;
2) f21 (after ex-dd1 you have to do run cancel (RC);
3) 11;
4) f4;
5) b34;
6) 4.

And here are basic attacks, which you can use as combo extender after ex-dd1. Here they are:

1) 1 -- (w/e you want next);
2) f2 -- (w/e you want next);
3) f4 -- (w/e you want next).

Windmill punch VS armored reversals


If you do 112 -> dd1 on block and then: you do fbf4 and your opponent does any armored reversal (in some cases, this reversal can be even X-RAY attack), you won't get hit.
This works on every characters, BUT:
- Cyclone and Vortex of Kung Lao and Power Flip of Cassie Cage require ex-fbf4 (you can see it on video);
- you will get hit if reversal is:
1) ex-ice clone of Sub Zero;
2) ex-Punch Walk of Goro;
3) parry.

Also, you can do b33->dd1 or other basic combo (check more info below), but it won't be absolutely safe (safety will be depend on start-up of reversal).

Safe on block cancels of some basic attacks into dd1


Description​

Basic combos: 111; 112; 3; 4; b34 can be safely on block canceled into в dd1, and then into bf1 or bf3 or fbf4.
Basic combo f123 can be safely on block canceled into dd1, and then into fbf4 (it's true blockstring). Also f123 can be safely on block canceled into dd1, and then into db2.

Safe on block cancels of some basic attacks into ex-dd1


Inputs for this video​

1) 44, ex-dd1, L1;
2) 112, ex-dd1, L1;
3) f213, ex-dd1, L1;
4) b34, ex-dd1, L1;
5) 44, ex-dd1, L1;
6) f44, ex-dd1, L1.

Let's count chip damage of fbf4 (without and with usage of dd1)

1) It's not important, what version of dd1 special move you'll use: the difference between dd1 and ex-dd1 is startup and duration;
2) fbf4 и ex-fbf4 have 8 hit: each of them does 0,45% of damage (only in ex-fbf1 8th does 1,88% of damage). When you use dd1, each hit does 0,17%*3 of damage additionally;
3) Chip damage of fbf4 without dd1: 8 * 0,45% = 3,6%;
4) Chip damage of ex-fbf4 without dd1: 7 * 0,45% + 1,88% = 5,03%;
5) Chip damage of fbf4 with dd1: 8 * 0,45% + 8 * 3 * 0,17 = 7,68%;
6) Chip damage of fbf4 with dd1: 7 * 0,45% + 1,88% + 8 * 3 * 0,17 = 9,11%.

Let's count chip damage of bf1, ex-bf1 and bf3 (without and with usage of dd1)

1) Chip damage of bf1 and bf3 without dd1: 1.88%;
2) Chip damage of bf1 and bf3 with dd1:: 2.81%;
3) Chip damage of ex-bf1 without dd1: 2.25 %.
4) Chip damage of ex-bf1 with dd1: 3.38%.


Combos, inputs and damage info

Combo starters:
Universal starters:

1) 113;
2) b34.

Starters, after which you have to do ex-dd1 to extend combo:

1) b12;
2) f21 (after ex-dd1 you have to do run cancel (RC);
3) f4;
4) b34;
5) 4.

Midscreen optimal combos:


Inputs for this video (RC - run cancel):
1) jump in + 2, 113, b34, fbf4, db2 - 30%;
2) jump in + 2, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, db2 - 29%;
3) jump in + 2, b34, fbf4, db2 - 27%;
4) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, bf2 - 33%;
5) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 112, fbf4, bf2 - 32%;
6) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, db2 - 34%;
7) jump in + 2, f21, ex-dd1, RC, 113, RC, b12, f21, fbf4, db2 - 34%;
8) jump in + 2, f21, ex-dd1, RC, 112, fbf4, bf2 - 32%.


Inputs for this video
1) jump in + 2, b34, ex-dd1, 113, b12, f21, fbf4, bf3 - 37%;
2) jump in + 2, b34, ex-dd1, 112, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
3) jump in + 2, 4, ex-dd1, 113, b12, f21, fbf4, bf3 - 35%.


Inputs for this video

1) 112, dd1, fbf4, db2 (bf3) - 26% (27%);
2) b33, dd1, fbf4, db2 - 27%;
3) b34, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 28%.


Wall combos


Inputs for this video
1) jump in + 2, b34, d1, u4, u4, u4, f44, fbf4, bf3 - 34%;
2) jump in + 2, b34, b12, f44, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
3) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, b12, 112, fbf4, bf3 - 35%;
4) jump in + 2, b12, ex-dd1, 113, u4, NJP, d2, f4, fbf4, bf3 - 33%.



Inputs for this video

1) jump in + 2, b34, ex-dd1, 113, b12, 1, 1, 112, ffb4, bf1 - 39%


Inputs for this video

1) 112, fbf4, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 33%;
2) b34, fbf4, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 33%;
3) f44, fbf4, dd1, fbf4, bf3 - 34%.


Inputs for this video

1) 112, fbf4, dd1, ex-fbf4, pause, db2, f12, fbf4, bf1 - 41%.


Inputs:

1) 112, fbf4, dd1, ex-fbf4, ex-bf1, b12, 112, fbf4, bf1 - 46%

I'll add new info as soon as I find smth new.
guessing these aren't up to date at all
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
I'd say that FF feels almost the same as before patch. Damage and chip are the same.. dd1->fbf4 input may be a bit easier..
Really cool that the chip damage is still the same :D

But the regular fireball and EX fireball hitbox is still very bad :( against some characters, the regular fireball wiffs on crouching blocking and the EX fireball wiffs on neutral crouching :( . And EX windmill punches into EX fireball still there's kinda a bug that if your oponent blocks crouching, there will be a gap, so EX windmill punches into EX fireball will not jail :(
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Most of these combos are suboptimal (no offense @Percimon ...you know I am a fan of your BRC). I propose that we update the OP with more "BNB" combos rather than random combos.

I will post the BNB's I use shortly.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Everything I post I will use a bar because it sets up my chip and then my zoning. Ex dd1 lasts so long that it's totally worth it to tac on the damage.

It's important to note that f213 fbf4 bf3 or db2 with dd1 activated does 13.5% chip

Mid screen:

F4 ex dd1 f44 fbf4; f213 fbf4 db2 38.5%
F4 can be subbed for b12 or f12. On these 2 starters you can link 112 after for 1-2% more damage (39-40%)

This combo covers armor breaking, opening them with the low, punishes and resets them standing. Damage is assuming they block the follow up 100% and guess right after fbf4. If they guess wrong you can go in again.

Corner:
F44 fbf4 ex dd1 f12 fbf4; f213 fbf4bf3 46.5%

This I think is the highest 1 bar damage he gets with a restand.

If the fb hits at the end, you are left at +6 and your new combo damage is 33 combo + 11.5 chip + 10.5 fireball = 55%

Since you are at +6 you are likely to add another 13-14% chip on top of that. That sequence can end a match very quickly.

Not sure why I'm thinking of this but it was on my mind. @EMPR_MURK do you have anything to add?
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Mid screen:

F4 ex dd1 f44 fbf4; f213 fbf4 db2 38.5%
F4 can be subbed for b12 or f12. On these 2 starters you can link 112 after for 1-2% more damage (39-40%)
F4 into EX DD1 is over -10 :(
You can do F4 into DD1 into FBF4 to do almost the same damage, it will be meterless, so you can save you meter to other things.

Midscreen: any string that can hit confirm - if it hits, I'll do FBF4 or DD1 into FBF4, so Liu Kang will have a guaranteed pressure because FBF4 is very plus on hit. If it does not hit, I'll do DB2 or I'll stop the string (counter-poke situation) or I'll do EX DD1 to be plus in some strings or I'll do FBF4 or EX FBF4 and count with my luck :p

Example: B1,2 - on hit: DD1 into FBF4 (21%), walk forward, F44 hit confirm / on block: i'll stop the string (-3 on block) or I'll do DB2 (there's a gap in hit, so, most of the times I won't use DB2 after a B1,2) or FBF4 or EX FBF4 and count with my luck :p

Corner:
F44 fbf4 ex dd1 f12 fbf4; f213 fbf4bf3 46.5%
You can do almost the same damage but meterless, and with a guaranteed pressure against most of the characters in the game:

Corner: any string that can hit confirm - if it hits, I'll do FBF4 into DD1 into FBF4 into BF3, because of the BF3, Liu Kang will be +6, so the better thing for you to do is B1,2 hit confirm because you can break most regular armors in the game, your oponent cannot jump and cannot do a low poke because B1 is MID.

Example: F4,4 - on hit: FBF4 into DD1 into FBF4 into BF3 (34% and you will be +6), after that, B1,2 hit confirm - if it hits: FBF4 into BF3 (around 30% and will be +6 again...), B1,2 hit confirm again... / on block - DB2 to be totally safe (-2) or EX DD1 to be +3 or DD1 into FBF4 to do a gimmick but you'll have to count with your luck :p
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
F4 into EX DD1 is over -10 :(
You can do F4 into DD1 into FBF4 to do almost the same damage, it will be meterless, so you can save you meter to other things.

Midscreen: any string that can hit confirm - if it hits, I'll do FBF4 or DD1 into FBF4, so Liu Kang will have a guaranteed pressure because FBF4 is very plus on hit. If it does not hit, I'll do DB2 or I'll stop the string (counter-poke situation) or I'll do EX DD1 to be plus in some strings or I'll do FBF4 or EX FBF4 and count with my luck :p

Example: B1,2 - on hit: DD1 into FBF4 (21%), walk forward, F44 hit confirm / on block: i'll stop the string (-3 on block) or I'll do DB2 (there's a gap in hit, so, most of the times I won't use DB2 after a B1,2) or FBF4 or EX FBF4 and count with my luck :p



You can do almost the same damage but meterless, and with a guaranteed pressure against most of the characters in the game:

Corner: any string that can hit confirm - if it hits, I'll do FBF4 into DD1 into FBF4 into BF3, because of the BF3, Liu Kang will be +6, so the better thing for you to do is B1,2 hit confirm, so you can break most regular armors in the game, your oponent cannot jump and cannot do a low poke because B1 is MID.

Example: F4,4 - on hit: FBF4 into DD1 into FBF4 into BF3 (34% and you will be +6), after that, B1,2 hit confirm - if it hits: FBF4 into BF3 (around 30% and will be +6 again...), B1,2 hit confirm again... / on block - DB2 to be totally safe (-2) or EX DD1 to be +3 or DD1 into FBF4 to do a gimmick but you'll have to count with your luck :p
All this seems even better! I did not realize fbf4 dd1 fbf4 linked.

This may change everything. I need to do more testing.