General/Other - Ferra/Torr Jacqui Loops - Ferra/Torr oddity

[Doombawkz]

Now 121 is doing the same random-hit-random-whiff thing.

What even is this game anymore.

 

[joeldm]

Now 121 is doing the same random-hit-random-whiff thing.

What even is this game anymore.

Some video that shows this?

 

[Doombawkz]

I fixed the topic title to reflect the new findings, which are almost completely random.

That standing 4 thing needs to be fixed though.

 

[SaltShaker]

Ok here's my hidden secrecy exposed lol. It is more of a Ferra/Torr thing than other cast members, but here's what you should be able to do.

With Jacqui's 1212 UpRocket, or the strings into it in general, she can do the instant RC into 4 UpRocket. Other characters can simply hold crouch block to block S4 and UpRocket will fly over their head, but with Ferra/Torr it only whiffs at max distance and is a block closer. To get out of this you have to block the first UpRocket low, and then continue to block low for the S4 and 2nd UpRocket. Doing this will make the 2nd UpRocket whiff and you can cleanly punish. If you block the 1st UpRocket high and block S4 low, the 2nd UpRocket will still hit Ferra/Torr's crouch block. This is the way to consistently get out of the pressure of 1212 UpRocket S4 UpRocket. If you're blocking low in the beginning of the string it's automatic that either the 1st or 2nd Rocket whiffs for the entire S1 string for punishes so it'll make 12 or 121 not work as well.

Pick Ferra/Torr and Jacqui as the opponent. Set her to do the 1212 UpRocket into the S4 UpRocket set up, then physically block it low with Ferra/Torr and make sure to do the above mentioned. You'll beat it every time.

Damnnnn. Made me spill anti Jacqui tech!

 

[Doombawkz]

Ok here's my hidden secrecy exposed lol. It is more of a Ferra/Torr thing than other cast members, but here's what you should be able to do.

With Jacqui's 1212 UpRocket, or the strings into it in general, she can do the instant RC into 4 UpRocket. Other characters can simply hold crouch block to block S4 and UpRocket will fly over their head, but with Ferra/Torr it only whiffs at max distance and is a block closer. To get out of this you have to block the first UpRocket low, and then continue to block low for the S4 and 2nd UpRocket. Doing this will make the 2nd UpRocket whiff and you can cleanly punish. If you block the 1st UpRocket high and block S4 low, the 2nd UpRocket will still hit Ferra/Torr's crouch block. This is the way to consistently get out of the pressure of 1212 UpRocket S4 UpRocket. If you're blocking low in the beginning of the string it's automatic that either the 1st or 2nd Rocket whiffs for the entire S1 string for punishes so it'll make 12 or 121 not work as well.

Pick Ferra/Torr and Jacqui as the opponent. Set her to do the 1212 UpRocket into the S4 UpRocket set up, then physically block it low with Ferra/Torr and make sure to do the above mentioned. You'll beat it every time.

Damnnnn. Made me spill anti Jacqui tech!

You see, here is the problem with all of that.

I'm testing it and doing the exact same thing, however for some reason (when Torr's back is facing the screen) it still hits 50% of the time. Like I'm doing exactly what you guys told me to do, and while he faces the screen yeah it whiffs decently consistently, except not at all because other moves randomly start whiffing... But when his back is facing it, using the EXACT SAME SET-UP and timing, I get caught in the loop.

 

[rev0lver]

You see, here is the problem with all of that.

I'm testing it and doing the exact same thing, however for some reason (when Torr's back is facing the screen) it still hits 50% of the time. Like I'm doing exactly what you guys told me to do, and while he faces the screen yeah it whiffs decently consistently, except not at all because other moves randomly start whiffing... But when his back is facing it, using the EXACT SAME SET-UP and timing, I get caught in the loop.

i literally cannot find a situation where 4~uprocket hits after 1212~uprocket if you're just crouchblocking the whole time. i've tried changing the starting distance, switching stances, changing costumes/variations, and the last uprocket always whiffs

 

[SaltShaker]

You see, here is the problem with all of that.

I'm testing it and doing the exact same thing, however for some reason (when Torr's back is facing the screen) it still hits 50% of the time. Like I'm doing exactly what you guys told me to do, and while he faces the screen yeah it whiffs decently consistently, except not at all because other moves randomly start whiffing... But when his back is facing it, using the EXACT SAME SET-UP and timing, I get caught in the loop.

What the hell is going on over there? Lol! If I knew how technology worked I'd post a video. That definitely shouldn't be the case.

 

[Doombawkz]

i literally cannot find a situation where 4~uprocket hits after 1212~uprocket if you're just crouchblocking the whole time. i've tried changing the starting distance, switching stances, changing costumes/variations, and the last uprocket always whiffs

I literally just did it. I'll post a video for you.

 

[SaltShaker]

Nowwwwww I see the problem. I went to go test again because I know I wasn't buggin lol. This is what's happening.

The 1212 UpRockets S4 UpRockets is a frame trap with instant RC. You can block low and allow the Rockets to fly over your head for a punish on the 2nd rocket like we've said. Easy explanation.

However, if Jacqui goes beyond her +frame advantage and does a deeper run into S4 UpRocket, then both will hit on block allowing it to repeat again. If this happens you have to hold the 2nd loop of an instant RC. The way out of this is to backdash and her S4 whiffs in place, or to armor out.

So what you are seeing is instant RC's within the frame trap whiff the 2nd UpRocket, mixed with deeper RC's that can be backdash'd into a punish or armor'd into a punish but if you don't punish you have to hold the block.

 

[Doombawkz]

This is what I'm seeing.

 

[Doombawkz]

Nowwwwww I see the problem. I went to go test again because I know I wasn't buggin lol. This is what's happening.

The 1212 UpRockets S4 UpRockets is a frame trap with instant RC. You can block low and allow the Rockets to fly over your head for a punish on the 2nd rocket like we've said. Easy explanation.

However, if Jacqui goes beyond her +frame advantage and does a deeper run into S4 UpRocket, then both will hit on block allowing it to repeat again. If this happens you have to hold the 2nd loop of an instant RC. The way out of this is to backdash and her S4 whiffs in place, or to armor out.

So what you are seeing is instant RC's within the frame trap whiff the 2nd UpRocket, mixed with deeper RC's that can be backdash'd into a punish or armor'd into a punish but if you don't punish you have to hold the block.

I'm not doing a run cancel.
This is just 1212xxup rocket into raw 4xxup rocket on block.

 

[Wetdoba]

So in order to get out of this block infinite we are forced to block low over the course of multiple hits. If Jaqui knows this, then whats to stop her from doing overhead into 40% instead during the time we have to block low? Fuck being big and slow in this game

 

[BillStickers]

Try switching stances

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm not doing a run cancel.
This is just 1212xxup rocket into raw 4xxup rocket on block.

After you block S4 UpRocket have you tried a D1? It should go under S1 as well.

 

[Doombawkz]

After you block S4 UpRocket have you tried a D1? It should go under S1 as well.

I have. It doesn't come out because 4xxup rocket (run) 1212 is a true blockstring.

What I'm saying is I'm ot doing a run between 1212xxup rocket and 4 uprocket.

 

[SaltShaker]

I have. It doesn't come out because 4xxup rocket (run) 1212 is a true blockstring.

What I'm saying is I'm ot doing a run between 1212xxup rocket and 4 uprocket.

In the corner if you do 1212 UpR, S4 UpR you're spaced away and have to RC. You should be able to D1 the follow up of that second S1 because your D1 will go under her S1 and hit her before the 2 comes out.

Midscreen it should be similar if you held the entire string of 1212 UpR S4 UpR. She'll have to RC to close the gap for the second S1 because no reach, and if you blocked the 2nd UpR you can't armor or backdash or anything but the D1 should go under the S1 even after standing block.

If that doesn't work I dunno lol but it should.

 

[Doombawkz]

In the corner if you do 1212 UpR, S4 UpR you're spaced away and have to RC. You should be able to D1 the follow up of that second S1 because your D1 will go under her S1 and hit her before the 2 comes out.

Midscreen it should be similar if you held the entire string of 1212 UpR S4 UpR. She'll have to RC to close the gap for the second S1 because no reach, and if you blocked the 2nd UpR you can't armor or backdash or anything but the D1 should go under the S1 even after standing block.

If that doesn't work I dunno lol but it should.

I posted a video above of me just doing it raw the same way both times. No run cancel in the corner.

 

[cR Biohazard]

Are we forgetting that since we have to hold another 1212 up rocket after the initial 1212 up rocket, that this gives the Jacqui player the ability to do a deeper run into S4 up rocket? Not sure what she can get off of 1212 if we try to get out of, but I'm sure it gives her enough time to hit confirm whether to do the rocket or something more damaging, correct?

 

[Ecodus]

I didn't find this tech, but I knew about it. I was letting my boy @cR Biohazard know about it so he doesn't get blown by an infinite that is only governed by run. It's dumb and F/T should be able to neutral duck it like everyone else.

 

[Doombawkz]

Even midscreen. I'm so damn confused. Whats even going on anymore.

 

[scarsunseen]

I knew about Jacqui's 4 knocking Ferra down for a while Jacqui needs it!

 

[Rip Torn]

If you block an up rocket standing, Jacqui can jail you into standing 1 with stamina. If you block an up rocket crouching, she can't jail you into standing 1, and she's too far for 4~up rocket to hit on block or be a true blockstring. If you do 1212~up rocket and the up rocket is crouch blocked, the 4 frame traps but the up rocket can be neutral ducked/backdashed/armored. At least that's what I see from my testing.

 

[Death the kid5]

Hello my fellow F/T players, as well as any other members of our community joining me here today on this topic. @cR Biohazard has discovered some unsettling news, further optimized by my labbing.

To put it simply, he discovered because of our hitbox, we have to hold a particular combo: 1212xxup rocket (run). This combo left Jacqui at +11 and allowed her to continue to loop it until she ran out of stamina.

So the loop normally is...

1212xxd.b.2 (run) 1212xxd.b.2 (run) 1212xxd.b.2 (run)
^ in this loop (shown above), she runs out of stamina about... 5 or 6 reps in.

However, now she can do...

1212xxd.b.2 4xxd.b.2 (run) 1212xxd.b.2 4xxd.b.2 (run) 1212xxd.b.2 4xxd.b.2
^In this loop (shown below) she never runs out of stamina, due in part to the length of the second combo.

As you can see, by the time the second rep is done she has basically regained all of her stamina. If not for my incapable hands, I could've continued the loop indefinitely (or until F/T died).


EDIT: This works always on the AI in training, however a human player can duck after the neutral 4 and sometimes avoid the rocket. Credit to @rev0lver for the correction. Sorry for the confusion.



This brings me to a third point, a bit of an outlier but all the same. Jacqui's standing 4 also disarms us of Ferra if we decide to "take the hit" so to speak.

Thanks to @cR Biohazard for allowing me to do this write-up for him. Thank you all for reading.


NOTE: The first combo works on every single member of the cast. Only the second one does not.


ANOTHER NOTE: Apparently the AI is derp and when its set to be recorded as crouching and blocking instead of set to duck block the rocket will sometimes whiff, though sometimes it doesn't. So nevermind on the infinite, since I guess it isn't always an infinite.

@Ecodus found the original loop though.

this is old you could do this pre patch it works on anyone but just duck it

 

[Doombawkz]

this is old you could do this pre patch it works on anyone but just duck it

Would love to if ducking didn't randomly fail me.

 

[Rip Torn]

The real problem is that Ferra can't neutral duck after blocking 1212~up rocket. Every character can do that but FT. Usually we have to rely on landing a B2~up rocket to be +11 or a string into mb up rocket to be +34. Against FT, we can just 1212~up rocket and be +11 all day.

FT needs to be able to duck 1212~up rocket to fix this whole issue.