Who do you think is Bottom 5?

[Wetdoba]

FT community (tournament players) are not very good at explaining why their character is bad nor good

They have very poor tutorials, guides and tourney videos to go by or judge

I feel one thing the FT community lacks is a strong voice and strong representation. They have two suttle quiet tourney players w meh results and a bunch of online TYM warriors who want us to believe FT is the bomb diggity.

I agree on this stuff, many of the tutorials aren't that practical and are very bare bones in terms of not going beyond the basics. Tournament results also are meh too because you like said there are only two people playing the character right now offline. The character certainly doesn't have the biggest following which leads to a smaller chance of players being successful and all the mixed feelings on where they are tier wise. Also that think you said about them being too honest in an un honest game is pretty spot on but we would need more time to look into the new Ruthless, some of the stuff we have found already is pretty dirty but is going to be difficult to work into real matches consistently.

Who do I need to play, what do I need to go watch to find the FT of my dreams

Where's the results

Not to say I'm the best FT player, but my love for FT is the only thing keeping me playing these days and I certainly know just about all we know about them so far. If you want to play on Xbone sometime I can at least make them not seem "dull" and can show you stuff in training or something because typing a bunch of inputs and numbers isn't the best way to show them off

but like I said, there are so few of us, I assume Bio and Grr were the ones you were talking about that you've played?

 

[Blewdew]

Who do I need to play, what do I need to go watch to find the FT of my dreams

Where's the results

Biohazard maybe? honeybee played him in one of his Last streams and his ruthless f/t is pretty impressive imo especially now after the patch with those new cancels

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Biohazard maybe? honeybee played him in one of his Last streams and his ruthless f/t is pretty impressive imo especially now after the patch with those new cancels

Do you have a link to that set????

 

[Swordzman321]

as someone who as sunk a lot of time into ninjutsu i would say it is very worth using, his f2 is really good not only for spacing and footsies but it blows up armor as well, his sweep is actually usefull since it also blows up armor, and you can get a lot of meterless damage with nijutsu if you know what you are doing. highly under rated IMO

you can get around 30-35% for a b2,b2,b2 starter and ending with a standing4~tele it ends with a standing reset where scorpion is plus, or you could end with the low,mid,overhead string and get slightly more like 1-3% i think (i forget the inputs right now) which isn't bad, not saying it is. I played a little ninjutsu on launch because i played scorpion in mk9 and really like the character. And i tried him again recently, he isn't bad. But i feel like most the cast outclasses this variation in particular

 

[smokey]

I personally look at each variation on their own as you cant use your other variations tools mid match, so cant include their benefits/faults when looking at a character as a whole.
Bottom 5 variations no particular order:
Jason unstoppable - gimmicky relentless with dumb heal and ressurect you probably wont use

Spectral ermac - cant fly without dying

HT jacqui - stamina and charging up limits are too high for little reward

Vicious FT (lackey is bottom 6 maybe) - doesnt get the pain n gain armour setups or meterless punisher, doing mixups with ferra mean you lose your mixups on oki or followup pressure is gimped.

Tigrar goro - doesnt have the normals or damage setups of the other 2 variation, personally im not sold hes bottom 5 with punchwalk new delayed mb, thats very very legit but until someones doing work with him i wouldnt argue his placement, i see why people put him there.

Shoutouts to unbreakable sub and storms raiden, both just dont live up to the potential and get v poor reward for the risks.

 

[Blewdew]

Do you have a link to that set????

Beginns at 4:28:00

 

[JerzeyReign]

When that happens (lol.. when).. IF that happens, and more people besides just the top players bother to understand what Mileena's tools are and how to play the matchup, Mileena players, even the good ones, will do even worse at tournaments because opponent's lack of knowledge won't be as obvious.

What do you think makes her A tier? EX roll and a decent projectile?

She's not terrible, but other than Goro and Kenshi, no one in this game is that bad.

I think you're failing to realize the tools she DOES have. I have some understanding of what TYM considers "good", I really don't agree with it so I don't see a point of trying to convince you guys otherwise. I just read Pig of the Hut's "character is bad if you need all three variations to compete" sentiment and find it utterly pointless to continue. I've read others say "bottom 5 doesn't mean isn't viable" so whats the point of doing a Bottom 5 topic?

Mileena isn't a braindead character to use. If using all variations to compete is bad then whatever I say next won't convince you otherwise. I'll just agree to disagree and keep it moving.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I contest with your Vicious reasons. b2 launcher combo and f2 are both great meterless punishers. Mixups w/o Ferra on oki are b1212, b3, or f2.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I'll do what I can to educate. I will start by saying I do agree that compared to other characters they are fairly lackluster. But that's part of the appeal to me, they very straightforward, there's nothing super complicated about them.

Ferra is a fantastic projectile, IMO best in game. She stuffs every one else's fire balls, including the ice Klone, and all three of her throws will result in a knockdown, so it's a really good trade. She also works as a mix up, b121 can be cancelled into bowl girl (low) or Ferra toss(OH), and Ferra Toss is +1 on block.

b121 breaks most characters armour, save low slides or really quick start ups. In the corner it's basically B121xx OH or low, if it works rinse and repeat, throw a b3,2+4 in to really mix it up.

Lackey's d1 w/o Ferra. I don't think anyone can argue that it isn't like top 3 d1 in game, after a blocked OH starter I can throw that out against most characters (so far Kotal, scorpion are the only ones who can beat me out with their pokes, maybe Quans new d1 but it might be too short) and catch them pressing buttons. Also to note that Lackey's b4 becomes available too, I haven't used this too much but it's worth noting. no other character gets new normals like they do (i think).

Also I'm not sure what you mean about the OH/Low vicious not launching? b2,3,2+4 OH launches, and f2 is a low launcher?

are you talking about OH or low ferra toss for the "block string ends in 50/50" If so I agree.

And how could i forget.... DAT NJP

I was referring to the tosses

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I agree on this stuff, many of the tutorials aren't that practical and are very bare bones in terms of not going beyond the basics. Tournament results also are meh too because you like said there are only two people playing the character right now offline. The character certainly doesn't have the biggest following which leads to a smaller chance of players being successful and all the mixed feelings on where they are tier wise. Also that think you said about them being too honest in an un honest game is pretty spot on but we would need more time to look into the new Ruthless, some of the stuff we have found already is pretty dirty but is going to be difficult to work into real matches consistently.



Not to say I'm the best FT player, but my love for FT is the only thing keeping me playing these days and I certainly know just about all we know about them so far. If you want to play on Xbone sometime I can at least make them not seem "dull" and can show you stuff in training or something because typing a bunch of inputs and numbers isn't the best way to show them off

but like I said, there are so few of us, I assume Bio and Grr were the ones you were talking about that you've played?

Yea and one thing I do appreciate is the love the players have for his character . Kenshi community and FT is very similar here as well as w what we have to put up w on a daily basis in and outside the game

Except we do whine a lot more and are More vocal lol.

 

[smokey]

I contest with your Vicious reasons. b2 launcher combo and f2 are both great meterless punishers. Mixups w/o Ferra on oki are b1212, b3, or f2.

You dont punish with 13/15 frame normals against the majority of stuff you get like 20%. B3 and f2 are both low and slow as shit so no mixup , b121 cant argue

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I think you're failing to realize the tools she DOES have. I have some understanding of what TYM considers "good", I really don't agree with it so I don't see a point of trying to convince you guys otherwise. I just read Pig of the Hut's "character is bad if you need all three variations to compete" sentiment and find it utterly pointless to continue. I've read others say "bottom 5 doesn't mean isn't viable" so whats the point of doing a Bottom 5 topic?

Mileena isn't a braindead character to use. If using all variations to compete is bad then whatever I say next won't convince you otherwise. I'll just agree to disagree and keep it moving.

I mean man if you disagree w that statement that's perfectly fine it's just my opinion

It's just the way I see the game and that's probably because those are the struggles we deal w in our character community

If we had one truly viable variation I guarantee u the crying whining bitching would be extremely minimal

At least from me

 

[infamy23]

after a blocked OH starter I can throw that out against most characters (so far Kotal, scorpion are the only ones who can beat me out with their pokes, maybe Quans new d1 but it might be too short) and catch them pressing buttons.

huh? I assume you're talking about b2 overhead. That is -4

If someone blocks your b2, your d1 comes out in 10 frames. Any 9 frame low/mid will beat it so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Biohazard maybe? honeybee played him in one of his Last streams and his ruthless f/t is pretty impressive imo especially now after the patch with those new cancels

BIO is the best, of course I've watched his gameplay

 

[IrishMantis]

One thing for sure and I know this is not really fair to compare, but I say bottom 5 of this game would beat bottom 5 off MK9

 

[Wetdoba]

Yea and one thing I do appreciate is the love the players have for his character . Kenshi community and FT is very similar here as well as w what we have to put up w on a daily basis in and outside the game

Except we do whine a lot more and are More vocal lol.

Yeah the uniqueness of the character is their biggest appeal to me. I play all variations equally we should play sometime, Ive gotten a little better since my Bane days

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

You dont punish with 13/15 frame normals against the majority of stuff you get like 20%. B3 and f2 are both low and slow as shit so no mixup , b121 cant argue

you can punish moves more than -15 on block, most teleports will be punished by it, f2 is only like 10 frames so it's not that slow. I think in my head I was thinking of d3 versus b3, so when you said they were slow I was like "wut..." but d3 doesn't combo into anything.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I was referring to the tosses

So like bowl girl and Ferra toss launch? I mean don't get me wrong i want buffs, but I think this is too much.

 

[Wetdoba]

You dont punish with 13/15 frame normals against the majority of stuff you get like 20%. B3 and f2 are both low and slow as shit so no mixup , b121 cant argue

Ruthless now gets a 36% meterless punish of an 8 frame normal now with the cancels, leaves them with a damage buff and Ferra on Torrs back for oki:

2xxPnGRCxxF2, NJP, F3, 4xxDBF1

 

[smokey]

Ruthless now gets a 36% meterless punish of an 8 frame normal now with the cancels, leaves them with a damage buff and Ferra on Torrs back for oki:

2xxPnGRCxxF2, NJP, F3, 4xxDBF1

Does vicious get pain n gain cancels now?

 

[Wetdoba]

Does vicious get pain n gain cancels now?

No, pain n gain is only in Ruthless

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

huh? I assume you're talking about b2 overhead. That is -4

If someone blocks your b2, your d1 comes out in 10 frames. Any 9 frame low/mid will beat it so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Last time I checked b2,3,2+4 was -2 on block, so it comes out in 8 frames. I could be wrong though

 

[smokey]

No, pain n gain is only in Ruthless

Read my post, vicious is bottom 5 because it doesnt get the png cancel for meterles damage and armour setups

 

[smokey]

you can punish moves more than -15 on block, most teleports will be punished by it, f2 is only like 10 frames so it's not that slow. I think in my head I was thinking of d3 versus b3, so when you said they were slow I was like "wut..." but d3 doesn't combo into anything.

F2 is 15f and b2 is 19f startup, neither of those are like 10frames and they are in fact slow, especially for punishing.

 

[Wetdoba]

Read my post, vicious is bottom 5 because it doesnt get the png cancel for meterles damage and armour setups

Thats not how the character works though, if you play all three variations of Ferra Torr we probably only lose to two characters. Any one tool a variation is lacking for a match up is covered by one of the other ones.