NRS, There is still work to be done, regardless general gameplay issues

[MadeOfMetal]

I don't think this is new to NRS games. Normals have never been 'bufferable' and have always been needed to be 'timed' off of block stun since MK9.

I think there are just more examples of large block stun with a smaller window to punish in this game than MK9 or Injustice, but this is nothing new.

It is annoying though overall and it does contribute to the 'clunky' feeling people associate with NRS games.

yeah but thereis a block timing before you can release, i think anywhere from 1-2 frames before you can attack. and sometimes Blockstun on top of that, can make it seem very long.

 

[GrandMasterson]

Adding another "agreed" reply.

You can already buffer armored EX moves to come out on block in string gaps, why not normals? At LEAST after blocked specials.

 

[RVB]

I can't remember how many times I tried to punish moves with 11 xx Ice ball and it would come out as 1 xx ice ball because of the long blockstun and I would end up eating a full combo instead.

THIS DAMMIT THIS^

 

[Pan1cMode]

You want to know shitty blockstun? Try lasher Takeda's whip flurry. It's -12 but even getting a reversal special to come out is stupid, let alone a run in 6framr normal punish (which should be possible)

 

[MadeOfMetal]

You want to know shitty blockstun? Try lasher Takeda's whip flurry. It's -12 but even getting a reversal special to come out is stupid, let alone a run in 6framr normal punish (which should be possible)

yep its definitely a problem 100% agree.

 

[Infinite]

Right now block stun is just another part of the game that asks that you know that much more match knowledge and make reversals that much more important. I don't want to appear particularly opposed and I agree that getting wrong inputs can be frustrating, but I would just compare that to corpse hopping and crossups tech, it just adds another factor that you need to be aware of to win. Either way a stun indicator in training would be awesome.

 

[Linkuei82]

I was dealing with this last night playing against Hellfire Scorpion. I blocked his Teleport 8/10 times and tried to punish. He reacted before me with an uppercut or he blocked. I don't know if it was the lag, the blockstun, or a combination of both. I was done after that.

 

[RVB]

@Linkuei82 both most likely... one would think punishing a teleport that is -20 or something on block would be easy even online but MKX begs to differ.

 

[IrishMantis]

The only time MK9 felt this way was on plus moves on block, i don't remember of existing a move with one or two frames window going unpunishable.


Its not only specials, so many normals too, Kotal F1B2 has it, his F12 has it, that shit was -14 but never punished before, now they made it -6

Yeah but did you read my point why it could be bad removing for normals?

 

[SaSSolino]

NRS BE LIKE

http://i.imgur.com/kF6I3cw.gifv

 

[Asodimazze]

No need to reduce the blockstun, just add the possibility to buffer the punish.
Not being able to punish moves that are actually - is the worst thing in MKX. So many times I block Kung Lao spin, immediately press f3[4] to punish, and my character doesn't move at all.
These are moves that everyone should punish 100/100.

I played SCV for years and never had this problem

 

[supernumian]

Beside netcode, blockstun is probably the one that anger me the most.
I can't really enjoy the game with this two.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Yeah but did you read my point why it could be bad removing for normals?

Yes i did, I think the random advantage and such proprieties in combination with the stagger of MK9 were all well adressed in MKX:

6f normals are high, except Kotal who is at -6
No mid attack is neutral on block and fastest startup than most of the pokes, even KL F2 that is 11f mid can be low profiled
a few pokes are +2 on block, hits high and can be neutral crouched
Backdashes have invincibility frames, a great way to avoid stagger pokes midscreen
Blockstun jail is non existent in MKX, so no character gets jailed standing or crouching on plus frame traps
Everyone has at least one armored move, different of MK9 where some characters didn't even had armor.


In MK9 we had cyrax with a standing 1 that were 9 frames, something everyone in MK9 lacked in majority, and the same standing 1 was 0 frames on block, trying to reversal with your string of 12 frames was useless because cyrax would be at +3 all the time you blocked that and wanted to answer with your own
Same to johnny F3 and Jax F41 that had a 8f startup and was neutral on block.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Right now block stun is just another part of the game that asks that you know that much more match knowledge and make reversals that much more important. I don't want to appear particularly opposed and I agree that getting wrong inputs can be frustrating, but I would just compare that to corpse hopping and crossups tech, it just adds another factor that you need to be aware of to win. Either way a stun indicator in training would be awesome.

Yeah, a depth of randomness and pure BS that is, everyone should be well deserved punished for making wrong decisions, relying on where the game mechanics can work against opportunity turn, encourage players to go yolo and hope for the best. MKX was supposed to be a game with risk and rewards, sadly to trully be that way it needs the help of patches, but with all these gone is what we should've been getting on april 19.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Hope that someone will take a minute to really think about all this. This shit is nasty. I hate the Block Stunn ;-(

 

[MadeOfMetal]

NRS BE LIKE

http://i.imgur.com/kF6I3cw.gifv

that made me laugh so hard.... so true

 

[Eddy Wang]

Really hope this goes adressed in the next patch if possible.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Really hope this goes adressed in the next patch if possible.

it needs to be done!
hope it doesn't get the Online treatment

 

[Infinite]

Yeah, a depth of randomness and pure BS that is, everyone should be well deserved punished for making wrong decisions, relying on where the game mechanics can work against opportunity turn, encourage players to go yolo and hope for the best. MKX was supposed to be a game with risk and rewards, sadly to trully be that way it needs the help of patches, but with all these gone is what we should've been getting on april 19.

It's not random at all... just learn the block stun and the frame advantage and punish accordingly. MKX plays way more high risk/reward than other fighters, if they got rid of block stun, honestly a bunch of moves would just become safer on wiff and on block. Blocking a move doesn't mean you deserve to punish, obviously you have to have the knowledge and skill to execute and making the decision to spam a punish early is really in the same vein as using a punishable special out of turn.

This seems like a bigger problem online which I'd like to disregard, but I have to agree can't be fun in that setting.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

It's not random at all... just learn the block stun and the frame advantage and punish accordingly. MKX plays way more high risk/reward than other fighters, if they got rid of block stun, honestly a bunch of moves would just become safer on wiff and on block. Blocking a move doesn't mean you deserve to punish, obviously you have to have the knowledge and skill to execute and making the decision to spam a punish early is really in the same vein as using a punishable special out of turn.

This seems like a bigger problem online which I'd like to disregard, but I have to agree can't be fun in that setting.

blockstun shoudnt be removed but the added buffer, for unblocking should, some strings need to be corrected, like ones that state -8 on block should be punished by 7 frame moves. but are not! due to added blockstun which should not be there which i think is what @Eddy Wang is talking about?
this part is unfair... 3 moves that are all -10 on block should all have -10 blockstun and they should not vary at all. either that or the frame data should be fixed accordingly!

 

[Slips]

The only time MK9 felt this way was on plus moves on block, i don't remember of existing a move with one or two frames window going unpunishable.


Its not only specials, so many normals too, Kotal F1B2 has it, his F12 has it, that shit was -14 but never punished before, now they made it -6

I definitely felt this is MK9. Kitana's f21 was -1 on block but half the time she'd still beat me to the chase. (Even on 1P side)

JC ex nutpunch had a huge block stun and was pretty awkward to punish if you weren't looking for it.

Shang's up skull pressure was so awkward if you didn't play against it you usually weren't getting out without the use of armor.

JC's f3 over and over was so good early on until people got used to the timing of the block stun. Same with Liu Kang's, b321.

Reptile's dash...no explanation needed.

I agree it'd be nice if normal were bufferable off of block stun to make these frames feel more relevant, but I disagree that this is new to MKX.

Just gotta get used to it.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

The only times I have issues with this is on teleports where you block it and can't punish quickly enough, or for me the worst culprit of this is kitanas assassin run move she hits the block gets super low making it damn near impossible to punish, or it could be the lag in matches too idk.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I think the weird block stun can stay (and will stay because NRS's never gonna fix), but there should be some kind of animation to tell players that "hey this move has huge block stun, patient wait and press button a bit later". Like the animation when blocking Jax's high dash punch

kitanas assassin run move she hits the block gets super low making it damn near impossible to punish, or it could be the lag in matches too idk.

Her ass rush is like catwoman's whiff b3. She ducks soooooooooooo low and because many characters in this game already have hitbox issues, people usually fail to punish it with their quick jab. I think I'm gonna do some lab about this

 

[ZeroEffect]

They should also give everyone the same startup, same recovery, and same block/hit frames for D1 and D3.

 

[Infinite]

blockstun shoudnt be removed but the added buffer, for unblocking should, some strings need to be corrected, like ones that state -8 on block should be punished by 7 frame moves. but are not! due to added blockstun which should not be there which i think is what @Eddy Wang is talking about?
this part is unfair... 3 moves that are all -10 on block should all have -10 blockstun and they should not vary at all. either that or the frame data should be fixed accordingly!

unblocking adds 1 additional frame in all cases(except reversals?) now that low block no longer requires an additional frame. It's not built into the frame data so it could be considered an issue, and I'm sure quite a few other discrepancies and oddities exist, but I can't think that is what is being discussed here though.