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YOMI LIVING MATCH UP CHART (FIRST DRAFT) v1.0 - 7-2-15 Tremor Patch

Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
My favorite part about this thread is how Yomi posts a list with the Caveat that it is a work in progress that is subject to change, and TYM's gut reaction is to try to blow them up.

Common sense and TYM aren't on speaking terms anymore, it seems.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
4x4lo8o said:
Uh, what version of the game are you playing?
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The version where I labbed for 10 minutes and found a combo that does 8% more than the optimal and is universal I guess.

Which is the version of the game I usually play.

You probably need to update your level to match mine.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
BiPolarExxpress said:
You could get them to quiet down with notations lol
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No, I rather enjoy them clinging to their traditional ideals of the possible.

Also I like it when people doubt me. I want them to sit there and think of the implications. "What if I'm wrong?" "What could Doombawkz have found?" "Its not possible!"

Especially "its not possible." People will eventually learn to stop questioning me when I'm fresh out of the lab.

 
REO

REO

Undead
Ravosa said:
Is this a joke? There's no way these guys have mastered every character and found every piece of character dirt/tech for each match up. Take this list with a grain of salt people.
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A lot of the match up chart was done by asking other top players for their respective character.

For example SonicFox did Erron and Kitana, Big D did Ermac, Pig helped with Kenshi, Noobe helped with Kano, etc. etc.

And it's called a "living" match up chart for a reason. It'll never be completely 100% set in stone and subject to evolve for many years to come.
 
Ravosa

Ravosa

Wild Card
YOMI REO said:
A lot of the match up chart was done by asking other top players for their respective character.

For example SonicFox did Erron and Kitana, Big D did Ermac, Pig helped with Kenshi, Noobe helped with Kano, etc. etc.

And it's called a "living" match up chart for a reason. It'll never be completely 100% set in stone and subject to evolve for many years to come.
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Didn't know you went to those lengths. Props.
 
Reactions: REO
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Why is the only Liu variation flame fist? Most people have been touting DF as the best or at least on par.

Sorry if it got answered already but that's 11 pages of salt to skim through for a clarification.
 
B

brizzle

MKKI
SEV said:
For D'vorah, @HoneyBee was saying it was 6-4 Raiden's favor so I believe that's their number but I don't really agree with his points. He was saying that, even though D'vorah wins the neutral, if D'vorah makes one mistake she'll be cornered and then has to eat 50/50's until she guesses right because she doesn't have a wake up, but her lack of wake up should be irrelevant.

Aside from the first mix-up, following the superman corner carry, Raiden's going to be ending his combos in standing resets anyways, so that's something that all characters have to deal with and is in no way unique to that match up.

He was also saying that, because Raiden can armor through his cancel pressure, he has to walk on egg shells so after the inevitable D1, Raiden would get to start his pressure. I don't see how that is unique to the match up either: all characters have armored reversals to threaten with and counter pressure after blocked pokes is pretty basic counter poking. With the points that he made, Raiden would have 6-4's all across the board: all characters are cornered just as easily, and all characters have to deal with the 50/50 until they guess right.

If D'vorah plays patiently and doesn't throw out random puddles, or run into any armored specials or NJP's, she win's the footsie game. I think he said that Raiden's lightning strings range her out but as soon as D'vorah gets into her poke range, her pokes are all faster than whiffing F12, 3, or F2 to get the lightning out. Once she's in, she in, and her buttons for footsies are much better than Raiden's.

Seems very 5-5 in my opinion.
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I agree with what you said. But I'm not sure what you mean with wiffing f1,2 ,3? I think what @HoneyBee was saying is that raidens b3,2 is a good tool against Dvorah. It's fairly fast and covers about half screen, so if that keeps Dvorahs pokes in check, than that would be a strength in the matchup. I do think it could be 5-5 as well, but as a raiden main, I don't recall ever seeing Dvorah mentioned as a bad matchup in the raiden forums. IMO Dvorah at least does not win the matchup
 
SEV

SEV

Noob
brizzle said:
But I'm not sure what you mean with wiffing f1,2 ,3?
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To be able to use any of the lighting you need to first whiff the first parts of those strings in the neutral game before the lighting comes out: for 3, you would need to whiff 3 in open space then wait for the start up of 2 for the lighting, and so on and so forth for the rest of the strings. D'vorah has a lot of range on her pokes, so even if she can't run in, in time to punish the whiffed buttons with a poke, she can at least run in then block. Raiden's negative after the lighting and with D'vorah's button range, Raiden can't really threaten with anything offensively at that spacing, and needs to play footsies.
 
B

brizzle

MKKI
SEV said:
To be able to use any of the lighting you need to first whiff the first parts of those strings in the neutral game before the lighting comes out: for 3, you would need to whiff 3 in open space then wait for the start up of 2 for the lighting, and so on and so forth for the rest of the strings. D'vorah has a lot of range on her pokes, so even if she can't run in, in time to punish the whiffed buttons with a poke, she can at least run in then block. Raiden's negative after the lighting and with D'vorah's button range, Raiden can't really threaten with anything offensively at that spacing, and needs to play footsies.
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I thought that's what you meant. However b3,2 is the only viable string for that purpose. It also moves his hotbox back slightly. It's pretty good for mid screen control
 
Pnut

Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
Renzokuken said:
If we're going by the point tier formula, then it's:

1) Shinnok (Boneshaper) - 192
2) Kung Lao (Tempest) - 185
3) Tanya (Kobu Jutsu) - 180
4) Predator (Hunter) - 176
Predator (Hish-Qu-Ten) - 176
5) Cassie Cage (Hollywood) - 172
6) Quan Chi (Summoner) - 171
7) D'Vorah (Swarm Queen) - 169
8) Scorpion (Hellfire) - 168
9) Kitana (Royal Storm) - 167
Tremor (Aftershock) - 167
10) Erron Black (Outlaw) - 165
Sub-Zero (Grandmaster) - 165
11) Kung Jin (Shaolin) - 162
12) Sonya Blade (Covert Ops) - 161
Johnny Cage (A-List) - 161
13) Liu Kang (Flame Fist) - 160
Kung Jin (Bojutsu) - 160
14) Quan Chi (Sorcerer) - 158
Raiden (Thunder God) - 158
Kitana (Mournful) - 158
15) Ermac (Master of Souls) - 157
Kano (Cybernetic) - 157
Kotal Kahn (War God) - 157
16) Jax (Heavy Weapons) - 156
17) Kenshi (Balanced) - 150
18) Mileena (Ravenous) - 148
19) Reptile (Noxious) - 146
20) Takeda (Shirai Ryu) - 140
21) Jacqui Briggs (Full Auto) - 136
22) Ferra/Torr (Vicious) - 132
23) Jason (Relentless) - 126
24) Goro (Kuatan Warrior) - 112

Feel free to correct me on these.
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Let me go drink some Bleach realizing that according to this list that Kotal is better than Jax, Kenshi, and Reptile and is the same as Kano and Ermac.
 
Embestone

Embestone

Stoen
I see you guys have the match up between Reptile and Ermac blanked out at the moment, so for what it is worth I can probably provide some insight into that as I often play with Milky. So to put it brief, I think the match up is 6-4 in Ermac's favor.

At full screen, Ermac has total control as he can react teleport to force balls as well as just duck the acid spits. Reptile sliding in is really risky as it doesn't low profile the soul ball, however ermac's soul ball is only a mid when he has 3 souls. If a reptile knows this and tries to use the lack of souls as an opportunity to whiff slide in, they still have to keep in mind Ermac's lift.

Mid range is essentially the same, the only difference being that reptile does have an advancing string, and when spaced properly can punish a soul ball.

Close range is when stuff gets interesting. Ermac does have the advantage here as he has better advancing normals and can stay just outside of quite a few of reptiles strings. Ermac can also be a little riskier than against most characters as reptiles damage out put is minimal and ermac can get around 40% off a mixup, or 30ish in to a restand. Ermac's pressure can often times be good, reptile does have a 7 frame d3 however to help him get out from time to time as well as an armored launcher. Ermac can of course bait the launcher out, but it is extremely hard to punish as ermac's fastest punish string starts at 9 frames while Ex clawswipe is -10, often times I just go for the throw punish or a d3 to initiate pressure or go for a mixup. Once reptile gets a knockdown, it gets scary for Ermac. Reptile has a really good okizeme game as Ermac has no safe options to get up off the ground. The ex teleport of course can be blocked, however a crossover jump or an NJP will beat both the teleport and the ex soul blast. When reptile initiates pressure it can be difficult as well. Ermac does have a 6 frame d1, but Reptile not only can counter poke with an Ex claw swipe for the launchter, but also B2. That is one thing I see that Milky in particular does that I have yet to see from other reptiles is using B2 to counter poke. B2 while short, has a funky hitbox, and will often times catch a poke, especially ermac's d3.

Anyways that is my opinion, I also asked Big D his thoughts on this MU before EVO and he said it was also at most 6-4 in Ermac's favor and that it was a momentum based mu.
 
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REO

REO

Undead
Youphemism said:
Uh for Cybernetic Kano:
He beats Cassie Cage, it's a 6-4 (at least right now).
He might not beat Jason, I'm not fully convinced of that matchup yet but I'd like to hear your side of it.
I'm pretty sure he beats Johnny Cage.
Why is it 4-6 against RS but 5-5 vs Mournful?
Why do you think it's 4-6 vs Shaolin?
I'm not entirely convinced he loses to Mileena either.
HQT could be 3-7 but I've still to explore that mu a little further.
Scorpion could be one of his worst matchups tbh, I'd like to hear your side of that too.
4-6 vs Grandmaster?! No no no no, who are you using as Cybernetic experience? Lol
Why do you guys reckon 6-4 vs Balanced?

The rest I either agree with or haven't played enough to feel confident commenting on.
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For Relentless Jason vs Cybernetic Kano the reason I think Kano has the slight advantage is because:

- Jason has piss poor jump attacks and it's easy for Kano to anti-air him with B+1 into full juggles
- Cybernetic's Zoning causes Jason to have to approach usually and limits a lot of "Red Zone" set ups which is key to Relentless' effectiveness
- Kano's D+4 has critical plus sides in this match-up, not only does it beat Jason to the punch when we are at sweep distance from each other, but it ALSO low profile's Jason's MID command grab, it low profiles his double MID hitting B+1,2 string, and it low profiles his best MID armor and wake-up attack (choke d,f+1). Kano can also use his D+4 to low profile every single wake-up Jason has, making the wake-up game severely in Kano's favor.


@Noobe was adamant on Cybernetic Kano having the slight edge vs Balanced Kenshi so you can ask him.

And Saltface was confident that Mileena has the edge vs Cybernetic Kano.
 
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