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YOMI LIVING MATCH UP CHART (FIRST DRAFT) v1.0 - 7-2-15 Tremor Patch

KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
smokey said:
Cages d4 is among the best in the game i will happily admit, but Raiden vs d4 is tough to say as the match is often played at range 0 after the initial neutral game, which can go either way. Raiden wont get to wake up because of nutpunch so d4 isnt huge there, and he doesnt need to armour to get off the floor anyway as he has decent pokes and normals to defend with. If im gonna abuse d4 to blow out raidens shocker then he has other armoured options that d4 doesnt beat. Same in any matchup though cage can just block to blow up armour, same as he would d4 raiden. Cage has slow pokes and d4 loses up close as he cant get low quick enough, so when raidens on the attack you are generally stuck in the corner trying to put a d1 or EX in the right place like everyone else, while raiden can build meter safely and has a good 50/50 restand. Momentum swings in the matchup instantly though and both characters have to blow armour or read to get out of each others pressure so I dont think cage has a big advantage at all in this matchup. He doesnt lose by any means, but d4 isnt enough to swing the matchup in his favour when raiden does his thing.

Jax f212 is not something cage really cares about if jax is trying to approach with it because of d4 but still has to respect it because of the range, if cage whiffs anything hes either blocking a f2 and being staggered/frame trapped or it hits and hes going in the corner where jax is mad. Jax can also open anyone up with his strings and mixups, his d12 is good fast option close up and his damage is crazy from anything that hits or he armours through near the corner. Its a tough matchup for both parties, and i think either of them can get the advantage from a touch and keep it. Sometimes 1 good read could turn into you being cornered and losing, i would have never put this as cage advantage but he doesnt lose it. SD Cage i like a tiny bit more for this matchup, you can run more in neutral without crippling your pressure when you get in lol, i see it as even though, jax is scary.
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As a Wrestler Jax player, I agree on this matchup being wild and momentum based. Cage and Jax have the same goals and similar tools, but are slightly differently.
If Cage wants a soft frame trap off of a blocked projectile, he has to spend a bar of meter, while Jax only needs a raw energy wave.. but, Jax's energy wave hits high, so, it's almost even in that department. Both have long range whiff punishing combo starters, but for this, Jax gets to hitconfirm more easily and get more damage... but Cage's stuff eds with a meterless, hella plus restand.
THey do a lot of similar things... there are some magical ranges and footsie wars in this match, because the first hit in a round matters so much.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Death said:
Shinnok is fine. You guys saying hes broken is ridiculous. I dont think he beats jax (wrestler), Sonya. Kitana is even. Tanya is probably even to. Liu kang probably is 6-4 maybe 5-5 vs DF. Shinnok beating HQT is a stretch. I can see that match up being difficult for Shinnok. Hes similar to Kenshi in MK9 imo. Competes with the top tier but destroys the shitters. Just buff the shitters.

IMO Sonya loses to Tanya/Cassie/F/T. HQT could potentially be really bad as well. 6-4 vs QC (both var). 6-4 vs Scorpion. 6-4 vs Sub. 6-4 vs Jax. 5-5 vs Shinnok
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No way in hell Kobu Tanya goes even with Boneshaper. Thats her worst MU easily. Not sure about Pyro or naginata yet.
 
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rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
KIllaByte said:
As a Wrestler Jax player, I agree on this matchup being wild and momentum based. Cage and Jax have the same goals and similar tools, but are slightly differently.
If Cage wants a soft frame trap off of a blocked projectile, he has to spend a bar of meter, while Jax only needs a raw energy wave.. but, Jax's energy wave hits high, so, it's almost even in that department. Both have long range whiff punishing combo starters, but for this, Jax gets to hitconfirm more easily and get more damage... but Cage's stuff eds with a meterless, hella plus restand.
THey do a lot of similar things... there are some magical ranges and footsie wars in this match, because the first hit in a round matters so much.
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I think that Cage hit confirms are better and is a lot plus on the long range whiff punishing starter, that counts a lot.
 
STK

STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
Zoidberg747 said:
No way in hell Kobu Tanya goes even with Boneshaper. Thats her worst MU easily. Not sure about Pyro or naginata yet.
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Agreed! Anyone that keeps her out or has slightly better plus frames than her she fucked. I been using Kobu day one before it was hot. I had no idea dark shroud had armor till like a day ago. So i plan on testing Pryo against BS Nok to see if its better match up wise.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Asodimazze said:
Cage vs Raiden is one of the matchup in which I have more experience, but is not in Cage favour. I would say 5-5. A few points:

1) Cage d4 does really well against Raiden, but Raiden can beat it with f4 on a read, or space it right and punish with superman.
I also want to add that from what I know almost every d4 and d3 in the game beats Raiden wake ups except EX flying upper and EX superman, simply because EX DB2 and EX DF2 are highs. This is a weakness that every character can exploit, not just Johnny.

2) A-List Johnny CAN'T zone Raiden at all, you're very wrong about this. Maybe you don't know, but against forceball Raiden can just use superman on reaction. You don't need to burn a bar, just go for normal superman and you'll fly under the fireball even if your input was pretty late. It works all the time, just try it...

3) Cage can do well against Raiden upclose, but this has nothing to do with the fact that he can duck under his highs...this can be done by any character. He does well because Raiden hitbox is pretty big so he doesn't whiff much, and there are setups in which Raiden reversal df2 ex will get beat by Cage 12. Johnny can put up a decent pressure on Raiden.

I would like to test this match against @Nivek online on ps4 if we have a good connection, maybe recording some games too
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Interesting take but my points still stand, also using f4 or superman won't be easy to use vs a patient Cage who is aware of those options imo. Tackle on reaction works for his zoning but that still won't solve the issue of cages d4. But as u said, I can run the matchup with me and my bro as well.
 
Big D

Big D

Relevant In An Irrelevant Time
Undeadjim said:
@Big D Mind detailing the advantages that Jax has in the MU that makes you believe it is in his favor?
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Extremely overwhelming pressure against Ermac. Dominates in the corner. FCP one of my blocked pokes that leads to corner carry. Demolishes Ermac from mid screen, but Ermac wins from full and has air control. Its a "soft" 6-4 for Jax, but a winning match up for you nonetheless.
 
SEV

SEV

Noob
brizzle said:
@YOMI REO @YOMI MITYEAP @FOREVER KING So what are raidens actual numbers for Dvorah Cassie and lui kang? The chart conflicts with itself on these characters
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For D'vorah, @HoneyBee was saying it was 6-4 Raiden's favor so I believe that's their number but I don't really agree with his points. He was saying that, even though D'vorah wins the neutral, if D'vorah makes one mistake she'll be cornered and then has to eat 50/50's until she guesses right because she doesn't have a wake up, but her lack of wake up should be irrelevant.

Aside from the first mix-up, following the superman corner carry, Raiden's going to be ending his combos in standing resets anyways, so that's something that all characters have to deal with and is in no way unique to that match up.

He was also saying that, because Raiden can armor through his cancel pressure, he has to walk on egg shells so after the inevitable D1, Raiden would get to start his pressure. I don't see how that is unique to the match up either: all characters have armored reversals to threaten with and counter pressure after blocked pokes is pretty basic counter poking. With the points that he made, Raiden would have 6-4's all across the board: all characters are cornered just as easily, and all characters have to deal with the 50/50 until they guess right.

If D'vorah plays patiently and doesn't throw out random puddles, or run into any armored specials or NJP's, she win's the footsie game. I think he said that Raiden's lightning strings range her out but as soon as D'vorah gets into her poke range, her pokes are all faster than whiffing F12, 3, or F2 to get the lightning out. Once she's in, she in, and her buttons for footsies are much better than Raiden's.

Seems very 5-5 in my opinion.
 
cR Biohazard

cR Biohazard

Team Torr
Doombawkz said:
Kenshi is only a 6-4 vs F/T.

This list is literally killing me.


@cR Biohazard Correct these fools.
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Unfortunately I don't have much experience in a lot of these MUs, Kenshi being one of them. It's clear that Kenshi, Kung Lao and Shinnok win the MU but I would honestly need to play it more to find out if it is better or worse than this.

Match ups I disagree with in relation to Vicious Ferra/Torr Yomi/Biohazard:

Summoner Quan Chi: 3 - 7/5 - 5 possibly 6 - 4
Covert Ops Sonya Blade: 4 - 6/6 - 4
Grandmaster Sub Zero: 5 - 5/6 - 4
Cybernetic Kano: 4 - 6/6 - 4
Heavy Weapons Jax: 4 - 6/6 - 4

I am skeptical about Kitana, Kotal, Liu Kang and Scorpion and think that it might be an even MU but I'm unsure atm
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
There's no way Shinnok's worst MU is 5-5 and he doesn't have that many 6-4's. His numbers on this chart look better or on par with MK9 Kabal, please stop with overstating how good Shinnok is.

He's definitely a top 5 character, but he has weaknesses like every other character, he's not god tier (which is what you're implying when you say a character has zero bad match-ups.)

People say I downplay Shinnok, but if people didn't constantly say he is auto #1 with no debate and he has no bad MU's and the majority of his MU's are in his favor, I wouldn't have to.
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Juggs said:
There's no way Shinnok's worst MU is 5-5 and he doesn't have that many 6-4's. His numbers on this chart look better or on par with MK9 Kabal, please stop with overstating how good Shinnok is.

He's definitely a top 5 character, but he has weaknesses like every other character, he's not god tier (which is what you're implying when you say a character has zero bad match-ups.)

People say I downplay Shinnok, but if people didn't constantly say he is auto #1 with no debate and he has no bad MU's and the majority of his MU's are in his favor, I wouldn't have to.
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Show us your MU chart then
 
DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
Undeadjim said:
Interested in why you think Jax HW beats Ermac MoS I've not played that match up much and I would like to hear your guys thoughts on it.
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Personally I play HW and never had problems againts Erman MoS, you can easy rush on him after the soul ball, punish all time him with 1,2 starter for biggest combos and in the corner jax isn't really scared against ermac WU's
 
DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
I don't really understand which one (score for who), please help me understand, for example, cassie vs shinnok is 6/4, for cassie or shinnok is ? Normally shinnok win just need to be sure to look at other scores :)
 
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