Rank the top 10 zoning variations in order

[Pig Of The Hut]

Is that the Halbred Shove or the Scythe Stab?

Wut

Bf3

 

[Scott The Scot]

Or just buy a hitbox like a scumbag

(I'm buying one as soon as I get paid)

Join the Hitbox master race

 

[Orochi]

Possessed and Kenjutsu sc is way better than balance but still are not zoning variations. There's not a real full screen game here

Possessed bf3 way better than balance and Kenjutsu in terms of safety where as balanced is -55 and Kenjutsu -51 on whiff neutral crouch

Here's the deal: balanced full screen against top players gets wrecked. React to overhead and neutral crouch the rest and 3/4 screen every characters gets a punish.

Sc is -15 in balanced and Cassie w b1 can punish as well as others

Also when u see the OH slash as shinnok it's Ex SCOOP "welcome Kenshi this is your home now"

These were stealth nerfs weren't they, I remember they used to be safer like -34, that sucks.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

These were stealth nerfs weren't they, I remember they used to be safer like -34, that sucks.

Yes

 

[ando1184]

Top 10 zoners:

- HQT Predator
- Summoner Quan Chi
- Bone Shaper Shinnok
- Pyromancer Tanya
- Sorceror Quan Chi
- Royal Storm Kitana
- Mournful Kitana
- Assassin Kitana
- Balance Kenshi
- Flame Fist Liu Kang

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Would option selecting kenjustsu's f2 and b3 help much? I haven't been able to get it to work (my execution is usually decent but these option selects have been tough for me to learn). In theory it seems like it would make the risk reward on kenjustsu's mixups much better. If you make it so that db1 only comes out on hit you get a safe low starter and an overhead starter which is still unsafe but not horribly so. F2 by itself is -15 which sounds awful at first but from max range I imagine a lot of characters actually only get a small punish / no punish.

@Pig Of The Hut
@Orochi
@Metzos

 

[Orochi]

So? Kenjutsu is meter reliant as well, if you wanna go for damaging combos with meter. Only viable string which leads to average meterless damage in Kenjutsu is 111.

How much damage do you get from b32 in Kenjutsu without meter midscreen? Trash.

How much damage do you get from f2 in Kenjutsu without meter midscreen (except if you commit to db1 after f2 which is highly punishable on block)? Guess what, trash again.

Not to mention that Possessed mix ups are completely safe against the entire cast. I ve posted this before and i ll say it again. I prefer to have safe 50/50's which dont launch, or one of them will launch, WILL BE COMPLETELY SAFE and cost a bar of meter, than unsafe 50/50's which i have to commit to.

Thing is you don't have to commit to it, F2 into tele push is safe vs a lot of the cast because of pushback (like df4 in possessed) and b32 you can hit confirm into whatever, I guarantee you'll get more than 9% OH mixup in possessed. You are getting more of the mixups in kenjutsu than possessed without using them to full potential. If you go for launcher you get 29% and 27% respectively without meter, or you can hit confirm with other strings if you want to play safe.

You are spending less meter for same damage. Now you can do armored moves that lead to 32% combos, meter for AA that leads to 30%, have breaker or spend meter for the reset, , which if you want to make it safe and still managed to hit it does about 45% dmg.

Would option selecting kenjustsu's f2 and b3 help much? I haven't been able to get it to work (my execution is usually decent but these option selects have been tough for me to learn). In theory it seems like it would make the risk reward on kenjustsu's mixups much better. If you make it so that db1 only comes out on hit you get a safe low starter and an overhead starter which is still unsafe but not horribly so. F2 by itself is -15 which sounds awful at first but from max range I imagine a lot of characters actually only get a small punish / no punish.

@Pig Of The Hut
@Orochi
@Metzos

If you do F2 db1 forward or forward/forward it will come out on hit and not on block and yep some characters get a punish and some don't when done at max range.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Would option selecting kenjustsu's f2 and b3 help much? I haven't been able to get it to work (my execution is usually decent but these option selects have been tough for me to learn). In theory it seems like it would make the risk reward on kenjustsu's mixups much better. If you make it so that db1 only comes out on hit you get a safe low starter and an overhead starter which is still unsafe but not horribly so. F2 by itself is -15 which sounds awful at first but from max range I imagine a lot of characters actually only get a small punish / no punish.

@Pig Of The Hut
@Orochi
@Metzos

In theory yea and that may turn out to be best but I'm not a Jedi master or diago umenyora or whatever

You have these characters ok? Characters that are OP and top without this, characters that get dmg super easy and then u have Kenjutsu where no matter what u do or have to do to win is much harder than the former

So now we have to do OS to essentially get what the top tier does for free. We have to work 40 hours a week vs the 20 hour a week guy making more $

I get it, if we want to be the best w the character "hard to do " shouldn't matter but I'm telling u in a ft2 mistakes and an execution error will occur because we are forced to do so

Meanwhile shinnok says "HI I'm braindead, what execution do u speak of? ...I NO of none needed that's why I spelled Know wrong"




All I'm saying is possessed is safer when it comes out, safer when mistakes happen and does better damage regardless w safer footsies

@Orochi

 

[Youphemism]

Cybernetic Kano...really isn't a zoner, period, and trying to play the character as a zoner is doomed to failure.

HAHAHA good luck with your offense-based Cybernetic Kano...

 

[DrManhattan]

This is not true. Everyone can jump the MB gun if they neutral duck the df2 from half-3/4 screen. Certain characters (eg. Pred, shinnok, Jax) can actually armour through for full combo.

you must be misunderstanding me... you cannot jump over the machine gun. depending on the range, sometimes you can jump the MB part of it.

 

[SaJa]

HQT Predator is not a zoner at all !

Nevermind.

 

[Orochi]

In theory yea and that may turn out to be best but I'm not a Jedi master or diago umenyora or whatever

You have these characters ok? Characters that are OP and top without this, characters that get dmg super easy and then u have Kenjutsu where no matter what u do or have to do to win is much harder than the former

So now we have to do OS to essentially get what the top tier does for free. We have to work 40 hours a week vs the 20 hour a week guy making more $

I get it, if we want to be the best w the character "hard to do " shouldn't matter but I'm telling u in a ft2 mistakes and an execution error will occur because we are forced to do so

Meanwhile shinnok says "HI I'm braindead, what execution do u speak of? ...I NO of none needed that's why I spelled Know wrong"




All I'm saying is possessed is safer when it comes out, safer when mistakes happen and does better damage regardless w safer footsies

@Orochi

Hey i feel ya we are def working harder with kenshi and i see why you are playing possessed i didnt realize they stealthed nerf telefurry in balanced so bad i dunno why really opponent got a good run before on whiff now they get to punish also they really messed up his zoning :/

Whether possessed or kenjutsu it all comes down to preference at the end of the day but you did read some of my points in the last post on kenjutsu.

I do like j1 and having reflect and the option to switch sides so i prefer kenjutsu.

Been looking into tremor and hes got a lot of tech but obvious issues, cant really find a char that clicks with me yet besides kenshi.

 

[Zabru]

Yes I play all variations actually and i've never been a fan of possessed though it's kind of fun. Why anti air with ex rk and get 17% instead of 27% why do 20s meterless midscreen when i can do 30+ I dont know maybe i missed where possessed has good damage midscreen without nj2.

Why pick possessed mixups over kenjutsus, you get like 10% on your overhead special instead of 29% with kenjutsu

Zone with possessed? Theres none just run straight through bf3 will whiff there goes your space control.

You need meter for anti airs, meter for mediocre midscreen dmg, meter for wake up, meter for breaker. Last i heard kenshi was no kung lao.

I just feel like kenjutsu is way ahead in the mixup department, dmg, mtr and meterless dmg and resets.

His combo launcher doesn't even have armor you have to stick to ex rk, do i need to go on?



I must miss those matches then i usually see you win with balanced. Like vs alucard i think you couldve done it with balanced than possessed. You just had to be less predictable with ex rks.

But anyway what do i know i rarely play the game every other weekend and tournaments thx to this trash net code so i only lab it up until i play again.

Possessed doesn't have good meterless he seems better in every other area. Also I almost never use bf3 since db4 is awesome and if you ex it you can start a combo from fullscreen. His armor gives 18% yes but is safer and he can ex teleport on wakeup instead. He can vortex and it's not hard to pull of online. He actually get 47% with two bars which is better than Kenjustu. You need meter to wake up with balanced kenshi and kenjustu too but with possessed it's safe. Also possessed has mixups and you can start a combo without armor and you can kinda start a combo with armor if you use EX teleport when they try to pressure you on wake ups. Teleport pressure is awesome and you aren't seeing his true power if you don't use it. Kenjutsu can't do lows from fullscreen like possessed can and if you read a jump you can teleport and kick them out of the air. You have to make more reads with possessed but he kicks arse when you do. Also bf3 hits mid and does more damage then balanced so thats nice. Even enchanced bf2 hits overhead. Also you can get 39% meter midscreen damage or vortex so he is ahead of balanced in damage, mixups, vortex, pressure and screen control, I would take that over an unsafe armored wake up and better anti air.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

1. Goro- allvariations
2. Jason- unstoppable
3. Ferra torr- Lacky
4. Cassie cage- Brawler
5. Tremor- Crystaline
6. Kenshi- kenjitsu
7. Predator- Warrior
8. Kotal Kahn- war god
9. Johnny- fisty
10. Sonya- Covert Ops

 

[chrisisnice]

It is always so funny when people be all original and wacky by posting an opposite tier list!

 

[MadeOfMetal]

It is always so funny when people be all original and wacky by posting an opposite tier list!

chill out, was just trying to lighten it up a bit in here, they went all over the place!

 

[Orochi]

Possessed doesn't have good meterless he seems better in every other area. Also I almost never use bf3 since db4 is awesome and if you ex it you can start a combo from fullscreen. His armor gives 18% yes but is safer and he can ex teleport on wakeup instead. He can vortex and it's not hard to pull of online. He actually get 47% with two bars which is better than Kenjustu. You need meter to wake up with balanced kenshi and kenjustu too but with possessed it's safe. Also possessed has mixups and you can start a combo without armor and you can kinda start a combo with armor if you use EX teleport when they try to pressure you on wake ups. Teleport pressure is awesome and you aren't seeing his true power if you don't use it. Kenjutsu can't do lows from fullscreen like possessed can and if you read a jump you can teleport and kick them out of the air. You have to make more reads with possessed but he kicks arse when you do. Also bf3 hits mid and does more damage then balanced so thats nice. Even enchanced bf2 hits overhead. Also you can get 39% meter midscreen damage or vortex so he is ahead of balanced in damage, mixups, vortex, pressure and screen control, I would take that over an unsafe armored wake up and better anti air.

No paragraphs?

Anyway you must have missed my last posts where I posted the pros of Kenjutsu I'm done with this debate it all comes down to personal preference, both are about the same on damage with meter, kenjutsu more meterless and possessed more with two meters about the same in mixups and exchange a couple of things like reflect for a teleport, j1 for his long range low etc. I just will always think possessed is too meter dependent at the end of the day.

 

[Metzos]

Thing is you don't have to commit to it, F2 into tele push is safe vs a lot of the cast because of pushback (like df4 in possessed) and b32 you can hit confirm into whatever, I guarantee you'll get more than 9% OH mixup in possessed. You are getting more of the mixups in kenjutsu than possessed without using them to full potential. If you go for launcher you get 29% and 27% respectively without meter, or you can hit confirm with other strings if you want to play safe.

You are spending less meter for same damage. Now you can do armored moves that lead to 32% combos, meter for AA that leads to 30%, have breaker or spend meter for the reset, , which if you want to make it safe and still managed to hit it does about 45% dmg.



If you do F2 db1 forward or forward/forward it will come out on hit and not on block and yep some characters get a punish and some don't when done at max range.

You still havent answered my question. Let me rephrase it.

Why would i pick Kenjutsu over Possessed, when Possessed has much safer mixups than Kenjutsu, slightly better one bar midscreen combo damage than Kenjutsu, almost same midscreen combo damage with two bars as Kenjutsu and better screen control than Kenjutsu in general.

Kenjutsu deals 5 or 6% more meterless damage IIRC (havent played Kenshi in general for quite sometime, since its summer here in Greece). I really dont care about the meterless damage at the end of the day, since Kenshi will almost always have at least one bar of meter. I also dont care if i cant launch from both low and oh mixups. I mostly care to be safe, since i am a zoner and not a rushdown character.

Last but not least, dont get me wrong i think Kenjutsu is awesome, but i find Possessed better at the current meta of the game.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

Can someone just move this to the Kenshi forum already?

 

[Orochi]

You still havent answered my question. Let me rephrase it.

Why would i pick Kenjutsu over Possessed, when Possessed has much safer mixups than Kenjutsu, slightly better one bar midscreen combo damage than Kenjutsu, almost same midscreen combo damage with two bars as Kenjutsu and better screen control than Kenjutsu in general.

Kenjutsu deals 5 or 6% more meterless damage IIRC (havent played Kenshi in general for quite sometime, since its summer here in Greece). I really dont care about the meterless, since Kenshi will almost always have at least one bar of meter. I also dont care if i cant launch from both low and oh mixups. I mostly care to be safe, since i am a zoner and not a rushdown character.

Last but not least, dont get me wrong i think Kenjutsu is awesome, but i find Possessed better at the current meta of the game.

Pay attention to my last post.

Kenjutsu mixups can be made safe with tele-push which has plenty of pushback, you get more damage by making it safe this way if it hits, than 9% in possessed with the OH cause let's face it you'll rarely get to hit that low against good players, I'm always gonna block low and react to the OH.

Okay agreed Kenjutsu deals more damage 27% and 29% to be exact with his OH/low starters more with regular starters, I wish you'd post numbers mister.

37% with 1 meter at the lowest more if you use regular strings.

Yeah you deal more with 2 bars in Possessed if you have 2 bars to waste around more power to you. I prefer having bars to armor through pressure and AA which Kenjutsu allows me because I'm not so meter reliant in this variation that leads to great damage, I like to have a reflect and a great j1, a 15f startup full screen punishing tool and combo ender that reverses position.

Like I said I think Possessed is too meter dependent at the end of the day and that's an overkill for me, I've watched matches from players using possessed and usually the Kenshi player just blows their meter on ex db1 - bf3 block or hit they end up in a worse situation cause they are back in, like pig, I and others think, Possessed is not a zoning variation you want them around bf2 range. for your mid screen mixups.

I'm done typing back and forth thou so lets settle this with some matches instead? That's more fun and we'll see what's better.

 

[Zabru]

@Orochi I'm EU PS4, what about you?

 

[Wavy]

I like how this turned into a Kenshi discussion. My 2 cents is although Possessed is more meter dependent than the others I still build up meter pretty decently because of the fact that his options are much safer. Until they block low I come in with a teleport for 25%~ damage no meter - more with, or a throw, or df4. But the most important thing is his nasty 2 bar reset. I wouldnt consider the variation a zoning one. Much better than the other two damage. I'm no expert though.

 

[Zabru]

I still catch a lot of people with db4 so I would say it's still has a zoning ability and It seems to bang a lot of people trying to wake up I don't know why ppl struggle to block low attack like this and liu kangs f44 on wakeup. I teleport on their second wakeup and try to smack them out of the air or hit them with an overhead if they block low in fear of db4. If I think they want to AA me I go for a kick after I teleport. Then if they try to rush in I go for mid demon drop or bf3 if they jump and I didn't teleport it can catch them but it doesn't catch as much when ppl jump like bf3 in balanced.

Demon push has fucken shit damage and deceptively small reach. He can certainly zone in possessed but most of the time it only works out of fear of the teleport.

 

[Immortal]

Been looking into tremor and hes got a lot of tech but obvious issues, cant really find a char that clicks with me yet besides kenshi.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Zabru]

My thoughts exactly.

I keep looking in to other characters and I said I would switch when tremor is released but I dunno... everyone else just isn't kenshi if ya know what I mean. I've just kinda bonded with him and when ever I go to learn someone new I just wish I was playing kenshi.