I disagree. The only threat that Baraka has is the EX blade charge, which means that he will usually be low on meter because he will want to use it to stop getting abused by skull chip damage. Shang doesn't have it any worse up close than most people do (his down jabs are on a few other characters in terms of speed). Shang's normals are better because all of Baraka's strings are slow (B+3,1 is unsafe). Add all this to the fact that Baraka's blade charge is unsafe up close, and I think you have an even matchup and possibly even in Shang's favor. Pretty much any character that has to rely solely on meter to get in is at a disadvantage, especially since Shang can start a combo from anywhere on screen.
Why should anyone not believe it is? I think it would be counter productive to dismiss a potentially good strategy or technique because it hasn't been seen in a major tournament.
So I'm gonna assume that Check went to a major tournament and proved that it should be a staple combo? Otherwise from what you're saying, there is no reason for anyone other than him to believe in the combo's effectiveness. Also, keep in mind that I'm talking about major tournaments since that's what was mentioned a number of times in this thread.
I think it's not about the tournament itself, it's just that a a major there are a lot of good players who have proven themselves or are going to. If somebody comes and kicks their ass, like Tyrant did back in the day with pre-patch Jax, they, the good players, are going to respect this somebody and start respecting his words, actions etc. At major tournaments there are major players who need major proof by being major exposed, as to say
Baraka can outpoke shang with D4 and D1, so Shang's low pokes aren't much of a problem. Why would I do a b31 randomly? Im going to F4 you into frametraps. U3 is +10 on block, so I could just do that as well. Shang has nothing to answer F4, as none of his strings are notably fast. Baraka's blade charge is unsafe up close, so why would I do it up close? up close I could do blade spin, F4, or slices to punish shang. Keep in mind Baraka's 1,2,1 is quick and can be made safe with slices. All shang has are his skull traps, and once Baraka gets meter Shang has the disadvantage. While it is true he can start a combo anywhere on the screen, Baraka can lead you into frametraps off of any F4. Shang may be able to keep Baraka out, but once Baraka gets in he does not have many tools to get baraka out.
Blade charge is safe when it is done from midscreen. Ermac does not dictate the pace unless Baraka is in the perfect spot for him. One EX blade charge can change that, and afterwards Baraka will have a huge advantage. F4 is 12 frames, which of Ermac's moves will stop that. Once I gets him in frame traps what can he do? Ermac can only keep Baraka out for so long, once Baraka gets in Ermac has a hard time. This paired with the fact that TKP can be punished by blade charge gives Baraka an advantage.
i disagree with you. i can definitely say for me as a shang tsung player and baraka player that baraka is a bad matchup
really only usefull in the corner though..
Id say his d4, give him more problems. Sooo good.
Baraka's normals are not that good. His fastest starter is 13 frames, compared to shang who has 10 and 8 frame starters along with a 9 frame poke. Even if Baraka catches him with a D+4, it pushes Shang away, which is not where baraka away. The reason I mention the blade charge being unsafe is because it is his only way out of Shang's frame traps, which are obviously done when Shang is in your face. even at 7 frames, the blade spin is not fast enough to get Baraka out of the trap because Shang has enough advantage off of a blocked ground skull to get an uninterruptable poke, which in turn gives him frame advantage. F+4 does not matter unless Baraka gets a combo. Again, it is 12 frames as opposed to Shang's superior normals.
D1 can also be used to counter Shang's pokes. D1 can also be used to get out of Shang's frametraps. You do realize his frame trap is 221+2 F4 right? Well, you can do an F4 followed by 221+2 and it still leads into frametraps, so yes it does matter. At the very least Baraka can D1 out of Shang's poke as it is 6 frames. Shang's normals are not good enough to avoid frame traps, armor moves, Baraka's superior pokes, and Baraka's pressure.
But again, you are not taking into account that Baraka is slow as hell. 2,2,1+2? that is an abysmal 23 frames and his U+3 is 24 frames. No competent player is going to let you get that on screen. Shang can do exactly what you say Baraka can do against the frame traps: he has a 6 frame down 1 and a 7 frame down 3. And no, after a blocked close ground skull, Baraka cannot poke or spin out of Shang's poke: it is uninterruptable. You have also not addressed the fact that the only answer Baraka has at full screen is the EX blade charge, which means that he will constantly be eating up meter just to stay in the match.
That's just it, you cannot simply walk away after his poke. A D+3 gives enough of an advantage to allow his next F+4 groundskull to beat out most of Baraka's options. I don't see how you can think that Baraka locks Shang down so easily. Everything Shang does is faster and pushes Baraka away. About the EX blade charge: I would not advise using that when Shang is pressuring you because it is very unsafe when done upclose. Also, a blocked full screen charge does not leave Baraka close, so it's pretty much back to square 1. It is not easy to avoid ground skulls, so I don't think you can say "as long as you don't get hit". Shang outclasses Baraka from every distance.
of course he can, unless shang is right infront of him
Exactly. If Shang's pressure is applied correctly, Baraka will be right in front of him. As M2Dave said, you guys need to keep in mind that is Shang is not just a zoner. The matchup may be in Baraka's favor against a vanilla Shang, but if the player makes use of his frame traps in addition to some zoning, I do not see this as being in Baraka's favor
I think people are quick to look at Shang Tsung that way because he can start combos from full screen away. But it's not like Shang would throw out random en ground skulls. Not only that but there aren't many Shang players out there that are able to get recorded so people can see. Shoot actually there's not a lot of Shang players out there period. lol
well the way isee it, shang will not always be able to apply pressure correctly all the time (no player can do that)
F+4 ground skull is not that difficult. Even if you use the full F+4,3,4 into the ground skull, Shang is still at a plus 2 advantage. By that logic, Kabal would be garbage because he is so execution based. And Yet he is still top tier. High level players will have their execution down.