The Newest Mortal Kombat (9) Tier List

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Does this whole Jax vs. Ermac situation apply to the other zoners like Noob and Freddy?

It applies to all high crouching hit box characters.

 

[M2Dave]

Does this whole Jax vs. Ermac situation apply to the other zoners like Noob and Freddy?

The high crouching hitbox? Yes. The zoning? No. Noob's projectiles are a 50/50 mix up. Freddy's projectiles have pushback. Freddy has projectile frame traps. Freddy has a stance that backdashes and lowers his hitbox. What is stopping Jax from dash blocking to approach Ermac? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Metzos]

Mileena has the ability to zone Ermac with instant aerial Sai Blasts. Ermac has to approach Mileena and play footsies, yet Mileena is by far the strongest footsie character in the game. With the exception of max range TKPs, Mileena can quickly dash and do d+4, and Ermac has to block. Also, most of Ermac strings are useless in this match up. None of them jail a crouch blocking Mileena. At max TKP range, Ermac has the advantage. Every other part of the screen belongs to Mileena.

As far as Jax goes, you do realize that even Freddy has issues zoning Jax, right? Any character who has to block f+4,1,3, and Ermac is one of those characters, struggles vs Jax in some form or another. Once Jax gets passed Ermac's zoning, good luck defending when your character has a high crouching hitbox, poor defensive options, and no armor moves aside from X-Ray. When Jax corners Ermac, put your controller down because the match is over. What are you going to do? Do a wake up move and risk losing 70%+ of your life?

About Mileena : What about U4 ? Plus i can use IAFB's to deal with D3. I can punish all her special moves with tons of dmg on block. I can use F4 to go for the reset and keep her close to me for mixups (yeah i know that Ermac's mixups suck but that doesnt mean they are inaffective at all). And i really believe i can punish air sai's with teleport.

About Jax : I ll try to outzone him with maxed ranged TKP's. I never said that Ermac vs Jax is an easy MU for Ermac. You have to be patient and careful if you want to win it. You said it yourself.'' Once Jax gets passed Ermac's zoning''. Its up to the player that he doesnt get passed them. In the end its all about the player vs the player. But i agree with you about the corner problem. If i get cornered yeah i m destroyed.

 

[KamikazeJD]

As far as Jax goes, you do realize that even Freddy has issues zoning Jax, right? Any character who has to block f+4,1,3, and Ermac is one of those characters, struggles vs Jax in some form or another. Once Jax gets passed Ermac's zoning, good luck defending when your character has a high crouching hitbox, poor defensive options, and no armor moves aside from X-Ray. When Jax corners Ermac, put your controller down because the match is over. What are you going to do? Do a wake up move and risk losing 70%+ of your life?

Cant all characters dash block? What stops ANY character from doing that to ermac? To be honest if u try to stick a character that can teleport in the corner why wouldnt you teleport!? Jax is a beast in the corner, I know that, but ermacs up close mixup tools. f4 and u4. F4 is the obvious known reset that ermac can get throws and what have you into his game. If ermac was that easy to get in on why wouldnt he be D tier with my nubian princess jade?

 

[M2Dave]

Cant all characters dash block? What stops ANY character from doing that to ermac?

Nothing, but perhaps not every character has Jax's mobility, offensive game, and 100% corner combos?

Seriously, guys. Replying to some of these posts has become somewhat tedious, and a lot of is coming from Ermac players who are angry about the character's low placement. This tier list is based on bad match ups, not fanaticism. If your character has a lot of bad match ups, he/she is ranked low. It is what it is.

 

[KamikazeJD]

Nothing, but perhaps not every character has Jax's mobility, offensive game, and 100% corner combos?

Seriously, guys. Replying to some of these posts has become somewhat tedious, and a lot of is coming from Ermac players who are angry about the character's low placement. This tier list is based on bad match ups, not fanaticism. If your character has a lot of bad match ups, he/she is ranked low. It is what it is.

For sure dave. This tier list is cement for this current patch. I hope I dont fight smoke, mileena, jax, jc etc during SCR, cuz they def have the upperhand. Hopefully ermac gets buffed before evo cuz the odds are stacked!

 

[REO]

This discussion is turning into an Ermac Vs. the world thread. You know what? You guys can go ahead and overrate your character, it's still not going to change my opinion. The main argument I keep seeing for him not losing to Mileena and Jax is "TKP". Seriously, what is this, week one Mortal Kombat? Okay, let's say you land a TKP, now what? You give them room to zone you, good job. The other argument is F+4 and U+4 mix-ups... Wow, really? I didn't know 9% mix-ups had as much of a strong showing to suddenly disregard all other downsides in the match-up. And I swear I read something dumb along the lines of "Ermac has a teleport he won't get cornered" in here. Raiden can't even get away with teleporting in high-level play but we're going to assume Ermac can?

It feels like I'm being trolled, no offense, but it really does. This is why I love seeing the trio illuminati (Ermac, Nightwolf, Jade) get raped in majors. I have nothing against the players behind the characters. But these three characters have been fucking overrated since launch with everyone thinking they're top tier and hot shit when they're really not.

 

[Ruuku1012]

Kano bad matchups: Kabal (for now), Sub, Mileena, Cage, Jax. I'm feeling a bit more sure about those last 2. Sonya might even be in there if she plays real patient with the dash blocking and d4's.

I mostly agree with you. Smoke is pretty freaking tough too.

 

[Metzos]

Anyway i m dropping this here cause i really dont wanna turn this thread into a flame war. You have your opinions and we have ours. Personally me i never thought Ermac is overrated and i ve been playing this game since its release.

 

[Ruuku1012]

It feels like I'm being trolled, no offense, but it really does. This is why I love seeing the trio illuminati (Ermac, Nightwolf, Jade) get raped in majors. I have nothing against the players behind the characters. But these three characters have been fucking overrated since launch with everyone thinking they're top tier and hot shit when they're really not.

If everyone really thought that those characters are "top tier and hot shit" wouldn't you see more of them in tournaments?

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

This discussion is turning into an Ermac Vs. the world thread. You know what? You guys can go ahead and overrate your character, it's still not going to change my opinion. The main argument I keep seeing for him not losing to Mileena and Jax is "TKP". Seriously, what is this, week one Mortal Kombat? Okay, let's say you land a TKP, now what? You give them room to zone you, good job. The other argument is F+4 and U+4 mix-ups... Wow, really? I didn't know 9% mix-ups had as much of a strong showing to suddenly disregard all other downsides in the match-up. And I swear I read something dumb along the lines of "Ermac has a teleport he won't get cornered" in here. Raiden can't even get away with teleporting in high-level play but we're going to assume Ermac can?


It feels like I'm being trolled, no offense, but it really does. This is why I love seeing the trio illuminati (Ermac, Nightwolf, Jade) get raped in majors. I have nothing against the players behind the characters. But these three characters have been fucking overrated since launch with everyone thinking they're top tier and hot shit when they're really not.

Well the opening post said discuss right?Isn't that what we are doing.....discussing?You are annoyed because we are making a case for our character.When making this tier list you didnt think you would be disagreed with?No one said Ermac was disrespected and we have a chip on our shoulder and you are just mean people hating on ermac.We are just disagreeing with the placement.We have made our points and you have made yours.Dont make this look like we are being unreasonable.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Ermac is going to be underrated like Jax/Sonya were. Calling it

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Ermac is fucking nuts.
But he's got a loooong match ahead of him against a really adept Jax.
This is something I'd love to see happen between pros. A series on a VSM or a Mortal Monday ala Riu Vs Brady.
A red ninja who knows how to really mindfuck with his specials against Jax, The Zoner Hunter?
I'd be mega-hyped. Hell, you could make it a thing.
Whenever a dispute ala Ermac vs Jax, Freddy vs Zoners, Jade vs Relevance comes up, debate it...with fists. For all to see .

 

[funkdoc]

I mostly agree with you. Smoke is pretty freaking tough too.

Smoke is one I still need to get a handle on but I'm not convinced it's that bad. Yes, his d4 is good, but jumping from that range is a hundred times less risky on him than it is on Mileena. He doesn't have a way out of pressure beyond the standard crouching normals (don't say EX shake plz). Oh, and he can't punish upball very well at all which is always big.

Sonya scares me more than Smoke at this point. Better d4 that forces real mixups, and better anti-air. Kano just isn't a character who can realistically keep someone out the entire match, so these things will inevitably come into play.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that Freddy is pretty borderline too. I think it's a 4.5 for Kano - you can air ball pretty much all his crap on reaction, but that doesn't get you in so you have to do a lot of those and hope you eventually scare him into not doing anything when you jump. Getting in isn't quite the reward for Kano that it is for Cage, though, which is why he still loses it. But I don't think it's a hard counter or anything.

EDIT: Forgot Sektor! I could easily see him being as bad as Jax. Trading projectiles isn't great since you get knocked down, his b+34 means you can't space him out, f+1 whiffs if he crouch blocks, and he can jab you our of almost all your pressure.

 

[Past]

It feels like I'm being trolled, no offense, but it really does. This is why I love seeing the trio illuminati (Ermac, Nightwolf, Jade) get raped in majors. I have nothing against the players behind the characters. But these three characters have been fucking overrated since launch with everyone thinking they're top tier and hot shit when they're really not.

I don't know anyone in the Jade forums who actually believed for one moment that she was top tier. That assertion came from people who haven't played with her or explored her capabilties (which isn't much). Everytime Jade was brought up, it was "she is just unexplored".
-No mixups
-No zoning
-No rushdown
-No chance

B2 shenanigans won't even work on a decent opponent, let alone a high level one.

 

[REO]

I'm all for discussion but some of the points you guys bring up just flat-out suck. Give me some good reasons why Ermac breaks even with Mileena and Jax and I will gladly take them into consideration. So far some of the shit you guys have said just doesn't work well or isn't enough. For example, random teleports aren't going to stop a Mileena from zoning you with instant air sais. Controlling Jax at max TKP range is easier said than done and is not going to win you the match alone. These two characters are better than Ermac up close and from afar. Ermac is only a nuisance if he's in his golden TKP range, which cannot be maintained against these two characters. If you expect me to start believing they don't give Ermac any trouble then start explaining.

 

[Sao87]

Can we just stick to a community run tier list? Expecting 1-3 people to be able to determine where every character truly stands on the tier list will just never happen.

Also wanted to stop by and say again that Cage at A+ is definitely wrong.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

I'm all for discussion but some of the points you guys bring up just flat-out suck. Give me some good reasons why Ermac breaks even with Mileena and Jax and I will gladly take them into consideration. So far some of the shit you guys have said just doesn't work well or isn't enough. For example, random teleports aren't going to stop a Mileena from zoning you with instant air sais. Controlling Jax at max TKP range is easier said than done and is not going to win you the match alone. These two characters are better than Ermac up close and from afar. Ermac is only a nuisance if he's in his golden TKP range, which cannot be maintained against these two characters. If you expect me to start believing they don't give Ermac any trouble then start explaining.

Well who said anything about doing random teleports?The fact of the matter is ermac can teleport thats why zoning him with iafb is risky.As for a Jax is concerned I'm just saying out of my own experiences.Ive played a good jax offline and Ive had success.Maybe not CDjr or Tyrants Jax but still a decent Jax player and in my experiences Jax had to use meter more times then not to consistently get in.Most of the time crouch blocking trying to bait a ex dash punch so I can grab him and shoot em back across the screen.Punishing reckless jump ins with a standing 1 or TKP .Mileena and Jax are tough MU's but they arent hopeless for ermac

 

[KamikazeJD]

Talkin wont get us anywhere. They made the list and its up to the community to debunk it. Fuck talk now, its time for action.

 

[M2Dave]

Also wanted to stop by and say again that Cage at A+ is definitely wrong.

Where would you rank him?

 

[CitizenSnips]

[MENTION=27]m2dave[/MENTION]

Reptile was put in A+ meaning 3-4 bad matchups.

I'm guessing they are:
Mileena
Sektor
Freddy
Kabal

Correct me if I'm wrong? Also will there be more details coming up soon about what the bad matchups are? I think Liu Kang could be a bad matchup for Reptile or at the very best 5-5 for Reptile.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Where would you rank him?

Cage is a solid B tier character. He's a nice pocket character for some of the upper tier characters - Kung Lao, Mileena and Raiden for instance. But he gets shut down way too easily by zoners.

 

[shura30]

this board was on the right path with the matchup chart
then a new tier list with smoke as S tier pop up

what a step back

 

[Sasuga]

The first character would be ranked a lot higher in a tier list such as this one. For our purposes, REO suggested that we construct a tier list that is very relevant to tournaments. Noob, for example, could be ranked as a high mid tier character in such a tier list. In reality, he is an almost unusable character in tournaments because he loses 7:3 to Kabal and Raiden, two very popular characters. I like tier lists that revolve around competing in tournaments, based on the standard tournament rules. Such tier lists are the most practical.

Ok. But then we're not really talking about tier. More about viability.

This is why Tier lists are slightly flawed IMO.

Best possible example for this is Super SF4 .

EHonda was top tier and considered best overall in game at one point - He had 6-8 bad matchups. Adon in that game had 1-2 bad matchups and was mid tier at best on every tier list but had no 6-4's.

Well, they hold the same kind of information. It also holds other information so it's up to the reader to make reasonable assumptions based on what it says. Now the other information is not available anymore and what's more, the information to make a meaningfull assumptions based on this chart, is not included. Who are the bad matchups, to what extent are they bad, to what extent are the good matchups good.

Just my .02 cents though.

 

[REO]

Well who said anything about doing random teleports?

One of your fellow Ermac players.

The fact of the matter is ermac can teleport thats why zoning him with iafb is risky.

No, the fact of the matter is Ermac can't punish instant aerial sais on reaction. Ermac has to anticipate she is going to do one and then teleport ahead of time. You're telling me Mileena is the one at risk and not Ermac himself?

As for a Jax is concerned I'm just saying out of my own experiences.Ive played a good jax offline and Ive had success.Maybe not CDjr or Tyrants Jax but still a decent Jax player and in my experiences Jax had to use meter more times then not to consistently get in.Most of the time crouch blocking trying to bait a ex dash punch so I can grab him and shoot em back across the screen.Punishing reckless jump ins with a standing 1 or TKP .Mileena and Jax are tough MU's but they arent hopeless for ermac

I'm glad we agree on something then. Never did I, or anyone else state that Ermac can't win against Mileena or Jax. We're just saying these two characters are tough matches for Ermac. Whether it be a 5.1 - 4.9 or 10-0 advantage, it is still considered.