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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
When your stamina is about to end(after the second skrc), you can either do a safe string and get back to neutral or use exfb to be +4.
D4 sometimes help to, after a np for ex you can do: 4skrc~114skrc~114xxExfb~D4(if it hits you still got you pressure and stamina back if not your neutral again bc D4 is -1 and Exfb got a nice pushback.
Hadn't thought about that. I find the ex fb aren't great for keeping pressure though but I'll look into it.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Hadn't thought about that. I find the ex fb aren't great for keeping pressure though but I'll look into it.
I tend to fish for throws to play around stamina issues, but stamina issues are why i cant main a-list. Spending bar for forceballs wont help open people up so I tend to underuse them because the spacing doesnt let 11 connect, so its got a big hole
 

Wigy

There it is...
Also, i think you might be able to properly link off the xray.

In the corner you do f3 rc d1 (12 12...)

Havent been able to get the 12 but its looked mighty close a couple of times. Not browsed the forum to see if anybody has actually managed it?
 

rafaw

#YouSuck
I tend to fish for throws to play around stamina issues, but stamina issues are why i cant main a-list. Spending bar for forceballs wont help open people up so I tend to underuse them because the spacing doesnt let 11 connect, so its got a big hole
Throw is good too, ex forceball frame trap with F3, f3 is 11 frames, after a forceball you are +4 so just a 7 frames move can beat it.
 

Killer Xinok

"Online is your forte!" - A Wise Man, 2015
Also, i think you might be able to properly link off the xray.

In the corner you do f3 rc d1 (12 12...)

Havent been able to get the 12 but its looked mighty close a couple of times. Not browsed the forum to see if anybody has actually managed it?
I'll try this later. It seems viable, I don't know if the opponent will stay too close to the ground to connect 12.. But I'll try
 

Wigy

There it is...
I'll try this later. It seems viable, I don't know if the opponent will stay too close to the ground to connect 12.. But I'll try
I swear i almost got it. Would never be viable in game cause landing the f3 is bad enough but would be cool, i'll have to get check or doctrine dark to try it lol
 

crosstalk

Kombatant
...so... what is the function of b2? I really don't understand why I would want to use this move.
It had the most utility in fisticuffs in order to activate fist bump safely after combos. In SD you can do the same with mimics. In A-List it's pretty much useless. If it was unblockable when fully charged like in MK9 it might be a little more useful in order to set up mind games, but I can't seem to find much use for it.
 

Wigy

There it is...
In next patch really feel fistcuffs johnny needs some kind of better offensive option and much faster startup on chip buff, like 25 frames?
Or even fast enough to get up after ballpunch with a little frame advantage, would mean he would be better offensively.

As it stands, fisticuffs is better for zoning in like 1-2 matchups but that isn't worth loosing the pressure footsies and mobility that a list offers or the damage and zoning capabilities that sd has

In the corner even quan pokes out easy now lol
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
In next patch really feel fistcuffs johnny needs some kind of better offensive option and much faster startup on chip buff, like 25 frames?
Or even fast enough to get up after ballpunch with a little frame advantage, would mean he would be better offensively.

As it stands, fisticuffs is better for zoning in like 1-2 matchups but that isn't worth loosing the pressure footsies and mobility that a list offers or the damage and zoning capabilities that sd has

In the corner even quan pokes out easy now lol
I feel that Fisticuffs was nerfed unfairly just so he wouldn't look stupid at Evo, a trait buff for him would be nice.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I feel that Fisticuffs was nerfed unfairly just so he wouldn't look stupid at Evo, a trait buff for him would be nice.
the quan matchup looked sloppy as fuck i agree.. But its just annoying cause otherwise he was completely balanced across the board. He kinda got fucked over they should have given him a buff with the nerf

Like metroid says hes useful but i just don't see how any in any matchups a list or sd is not better?!

Sd is only useful in like 2-3 matchups even then which i suppose is fair enough
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
In all honestly a Fisticuffs tweak was warranted and I expected something. It was fairly busted in certain matchups. Not unbeatable, but definitely silly. But just adding 5 frames to the move wasn't the way to fix everything. I was genuinely surprised when the patch notes showed just a nerf (which was wrong about the frame change) and no other buffs or fixes. The nerf hurt him more than it seemed since the main reason to use Fisticuffs overall was the fact that he had a 9 frame mid, which was the fastest of any Cage variation. I felt that this was a fair trade since Fisticuffs doesn't get the same use out of F3 that the other variations do. Now it is 11 frames which is the speed of F3 so it doesn't fill that spot anymore.

Another thing that hurts Fisticuffs is the fact that block hitboxes/pushback is variable. This means that you could the same thing on repeat and a different amount of b121 hits will connect on block on the same opponent. Sometimes on block you may get 4 hits then whiff, sometimes 6 then whiff, or get 4 hits, whiff the 5th, then hit the 6th and whiff the rest. Think similarly to the problem Brady has been having with Ex Ice Clone. Where sometimes it would be too close and sometimes not, even when doing the same exact thing on repeat.

Every character in the game has about 4 or so different block animations that they rotate between, but it is random which one is used on any given hit. I think that this may have something to do with the varying hurtbox locations. I have noticed that if certain block animations come up then b121 gets pushed out quicker. It is very strange. However it may just be coincidence and the cause of this may just be "breathing hurtboxes", or some combination of multiple things(or I may just be over thinking everything and looking for answers where there are none). Either way it is likely impossible to fix and is frustrating to deal with since you can't plan or account for it.
 

Wigy

There it is...
was there any johnnys at evo trying to find some decent footage to learn from but only found like 2 videos from old tourneys with prepatch fisticuffs and one with cd jr doing some unbearable commentary lol
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
was there any johnnys at evo trying to find some decent footage to learn from but only found like 2 videos from old tourneys with prepatch fisticuffs and one with cd jr doing some unbearable commentary lol
@CheapEddie used Cage A List for EVO (his Cage is godlike), not sure if any of his matches were streamed tho.
 
since the main reason to use Fisticuffs overall was the fact that he had a 9 frame mid, which was the fastest of any Cage variation.
I was just saying this to a buddy the other day that this is what killed Fisticuffs for me, it was nice to have something that handled like MK9 Johnny's standing 2 as a fast catch-all point-blank pressure tool. If they just nerfed the negative frames on block instead of the initial B1 start up I think I would have still been fine. I haven't been able to readjust to the other Johnny variants without it, really.

Making fistbump something more like EX Flame Fist self-buff by making it something you can cancel in and out of to continue block pressure would be nice. Adding some properties to have speedbag handle like pre-nerf Fisticuffs if the fist bump buff is up would be good too. Really, anything to improve fistbump would be lovely considering that should be the crux of that variant's gameplay. An improved flipkick suitable for general anti-air like MK9 Johnny in this variant would be a god send, too.