General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Wigy]

Anyone got any clue what to in sz matchup. He outfootsies as his d4 has more range and is faster and has amazing keep out game. I can land the occasional green ball but thats not guna win me the game. Damn sz is braindead

 

[Asodimazze]

Anyone got any clue what to in sz matchup. He outfootsies as his d4 has more range and is faster and has amazing keep out game. I can land the occasional green ball but thats not guna win me the game. Damn sz is braindead

If you are referring to Grand Master, your best best is choosing the Stunt Double variation and try to break the clone defense using your own clones.

With A-List is pretty tough, Johnny is not able to surpass the clone with any non armored move. You can try to jump it and do a well timed ji3 that might hit Sub-Zero if he stays in place, but this usually isn't a great idea.
Looks like one of Johnny worst matchups if the Sub-Zero knows what he is doing and plays very patient.

 

[Wigy]

If you are referring to Grand Master, your best best is choosing the Stunt Double variation and try to break the clone defense using your own clones.

With A-List is pretty tough, Johnny is not able to surpass the clone with any non armored move. You can try to jump it and do a well timed ji3 that might hit Sub-Zero if he stays in place, but this usually isn't a great idea.
Looks like one of Johnny worst matchups if the Sub-Zero knows what he is doing and plays very patient.

Not to mention delayed ballpunch completely whiffs on subzero for some reason

 

[Hawfy]

Not to mention delayed ballpunch completely whiffs on subzero for some reason

Shit is frustrating.

 

[crosstalk]

I wish more GM Subs played lame honestly. I have no problem dealing with trying to out lame Sub-Zero and making that timer run down.

It's the aggressive flowchart GM Subs that are a problem online for me. Midscreen it's just "yo hold this run 50/50 bro" or in the corner it's "yo hold this run 33/33/33 bro" It's hard to block or react properly online and punish, so this kind of playstyle really works. I'm sure the GM Sub MU is way different offline but I haven't had a chance to actually play it offline.

 

[HuttonMD]

I just picked up johnny about a week ago and have had a lot of luck with a-list he really helped me step up my execution doing all the run cancels and skrc in strings but I have a lot of trouble against ppl who zone me out its hard for me to get in.
Should I start learning stunt double for those match ups or can you give me any tips on how to get passed zoning? Mostly liu kangs fireballs and even takeda who space themselves properly make it hard to get in

 

[Matador Fiend]

I just picked up johnny about a week ago and have had a lot of luck with a-list he really helped me step up my execution doing all the run cancels and skrc in strings but I have a lot of trouble against ppl who zone me out its hard for me to get in.
Should I start learning stunt double for those match ups or can you give me any tips on how to get passed zoning? Mostly liu kangs fireballs and even takeda who space themselves properly make it hard to get in

Youre sol against Liu Kang. Kang beats Johnny up close now and he wins at zoning.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Is there any matchup where alist isn't the best?

Sub-Zero. Raiden. Shinnok. Ferra/Torr. Liu Kang. To name a few

Youre sol against Liu Kang. Kang beats Johnny up close now and he wins at zoning.

Fisticuffs does work in this MU

 

[Wigy]

Sub-Zero. Raiden. Shinnok. Ferra/Torr. Liu Kang. To name a few

Fisticuffs does work in this MU

Yeah just played f/t holy shit thats worse than expected njp spam and getting zoned out.

Any tips for NJP's in general? Shadow kick reversal?

Also how does fisticuffs work there, why better than a list

 

[Mikemetroid]

Yeah just played f/t holy shit thats worse than expected njp spam and getting zoned out.

Any tips for NJP's in general? Shadow kick reversal?

Also how does fisticuffs work there, why better than a list

D4 low profile/block shadowkick/back up high forceball.

you should technically beat ft with your forceball zoning in fisticuffs. Plenty of time to activate and you have a higher ppm.

And fisticuffs works there because kang is one of the few characters fisticuffs still kinda works on. He can break armor, forceballs will do work full screen, and has plenty of windows to interrupt strings.

 

[Wigy]

D4 low profile/block shadowkick/back up high forceball.

you should technically beat ft with your forceball zoning in fisticuffs. Plenty of time to activate and you have a higher ppm.

And fisticuffs works there because kang is one of the few characters fisticuffs still kinda works on. He can break armor, forceballs will do work full screen, and has plenty of windows to interrupt strings.

In my experience there is no point in even trying to zone kang he low profiles and chips you for 3%.

Thanks for advice though

 

[Mikemetroid]

In my experience there is no point in even trying to zone kang he low profiles and chips you for 3%.

Thanks for advice though

There is when he blocks your buffed fb and you do 4%

 

[Wigy]

There is when he blocks your buffed fb and you do 4%

that will whiff at most ranges if he does low ball.

But yeah, at max range if you have your fisticuff buff on i can see it being useful. As long as he doesn't have life lead.

Still don't see how its better than a list for this matchup.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I just picked up johnny about a week ago and have had a lot of luck with a-list he really helped me step up my execution doing all the run cancels and skrc in strings but I have a lot of trouble against ppl who zone me out its hard for me to get in.
Should I start learning stunt double for those match ups or can you give me any tips on how to get passed zoning? Mostly liu kangs fireballs and even takeda who space themselves properly make it hard to get in

Stunt Double can defensively zone (play keep away) pretty well, but he doesn't trade well against a truer form of zoning.

Kang is a bad MU. Gotta play your reads.

 

[smokey]

Some bits I remember for SD vs GM Sub;
-sub b2 is -13 so 113 or f3 will punish and you can kinda react to b2 if you are waiting for the mixup ducking, its pretty easy to spot.
-strings cancelled into normal clones on block get punished with EX Nutpunch.
-if you can squeeze one out, EX clone uppercut works for a multihitting move if you need to lock him down for a second to pass clone and get out of the corner.
-clone shadowkick and forceballs break his clones, but wont trade favourably with iceballs, so just pick your moments and be patient.
-ice ball, slide and EX slide are full combo punishable. If he does EX Ball its -8 and a mid so dont be worried about starting pressure if you block one up close, but you dont get to punish. Ice burst and EX ice burst are -10 but cant really punish due to range. Pressure him though!
-d4 will often lose to his Jump in punch when low profiling. Also horizontal range on it is good so trip guards need to be spaced well. EX Nut for crossups and bad jump ins are your reliable option.
-most (if not all) strings cancelled into mimic will be an easy reversal slide if the sub is worth his salt. It will beat your mimic cancel shadowkick as well, so dont bother. d4~mimic on hit is safe though, or at least really hard to reversal slide (if possible).
- He has safe armour with his EX burst to keep him cool during frametraps, but you want to duck block when baiting reversal/wakeups in case he slides.
@Wigy

 

[kelevra]

Man JC always cracks me up. The other day while i was whooping some dude who played sonya he went "Honeyyyy im home" and today i completely lost my shit when he went "Tweet that cass..." mid match vs cassie.
I guess there is still alot more shittalk to be found

 

[rafaw]

Man JC always cracks me up. The other day while i was whooping some dude who played sonya he went "Honeyyyy im home" and today i completely lost my shit when he went "Tweet that cass..." mid match vs cassie.
I guess there is still alot more shittalk to be found

Saturday i was playing and he said something that i have never heard(if im not mistaken my oponent was using kitana), but now i forgot what it was =(

 

[Derptile]

Liu Kang has no good defense options, rush him down.

 

[Killer Xinok]

Some bits I remember for SD vs GM Sub;
-sub b2 is -13 so 113 or f3 will punish and you can kinda react to b2 if you are waiting for the mixup ducking, its pretty easy to spot.
-strings cancelled into normal clones on block get punished with EX Nutpunch.
-if you can squeeze one out, EX clone uppercut works for a multihitting move if you need to lock him down for a second to pass clone and get out of the corner.
-clone shadowkick and forceballs break his clones, but wont trade favourably with iceballs, so just pick your moments and be patient.
-ice ball, slide and EX slide are full combo punishable. If he does EX Ball its -8 and a mid so dont be worried about starting pressure if you block one up close, but you dont get to punish. Ice burst and EX ice burst are -10 but cant really punish due to range. Pressure him though!
-d4 will often lose to his Jump in punch when low profiling. Also horizontal range on it is good so trip guards need to be spaced well. EX Nut for crossups and bad jump ins are your reliable option.
-most (if not all) strings cancelled into mimic will be an easy reversal slide if the sub is worth his salt. It will beat your mimic cancel shadowkick as well, so dont bother. d4~mimic on hit is safe though, or at least really hard to reversal slide (if possible).
- He has safe armour with his EX burst to keep him cool during frametraps, but you want to duck block when baiting reversal/wakeups in case he slides.
@Wigy

You can actually punish sub zero db1 and also db1EX (both -10) just block standing, and do 21 skrc f34rc F4 f24 d1 f3 nut punch.. If you are in Stunt Double, just do 21 EXnut punch 12 rc 12 rc 12 f3 np.. I use this sequence to punish Cybernetic Kano's Laser too, and also Kotal's F2 , this move is very useful, But I haven't seen any cage using it.. It's a just frame punish tho.. train it hard

 

[Phosferrax]

Liu Kang has no good defense options, rush him down.

Cage has a tougher time than most dealing with DF pressure, so I think Kang's best defense is his offense in this MU.

 

[Derptile]

Cage has a tougher time than most dealing with DF pressure, so I think Kang's best defense is his offense in this MU.

I meant that if you have a chance to put pressure then you have to take it. Liu Kang's pressure is insanity, his zoning is very good, but his pokes, armor, and wakeup are pretty poor.

It's pretty much who ever starts their pressure game wins, but Liu Kang has the advantage of zoning. So that's why you have to rush him down.

 

[Phosferrax]

I meant that if you have a chance to put pressure then you have to take it. Liu Kang's pressure is insanity, his zoning is very good, but his pokes, armor, and wakeup are pretty poor.

It's pretty much who ever starts their pressure game wins, but Liu Kang has the advantage of zoning. So that's why you have to rush him down.

The problem is that Cage's pressure will end if you block it right, as he'll either use all his stamina or his mimics, but Kang's won't end if you block. He can only escape his pressure using armour. Backdashes and pokes won't work.

 

[Derptile]

The problem is that Cage's pressure will end if you block it right, as he'll either use all his stamina or his mimics, but Kang's won't end if you block. He can only escape his pressure using armour. Backdashes and pokes won't work.

What about using Ex fireballs? I'm not a cage player, but doing something like F24 FBRC crossup into 114 Ex fireball to regain stamina. Also Liu is in the same boat as Cage when it comes to backdashing and pokes, cage actually has the armor advantage with Ex nutpunch launching.

 

[Killer Xinok]

What about using Ex fireballs? I'm not a cage player, but doing something like F24 FBRC crossup into 114 Ex fireball to regain stamina. Also Liu is in the same boat as Cage when it comes to backdashing and pokes, cage actually has the armor advantage with Ex nutpunch launching.

You're right

 

[rafaw]

The problem is that Cage's pressure will end if you block it right, as he'll either use all his stamina or his mimics, but Kang's won't end if you block. He can only escape his pressure using armour. Backdashes and pokes won't work.

When your stamina is about to end(after the second skrc), you can either do a safe string and get back to neutral or use exfb to be +4.
D4 sometimes help to, after a np for ex you can do: 4skrc~114skrc~114xxExfb~D4(if it hits you still got you pressure and stamina back if not your neutral again bc D4 is -1 and Exfb got a nice pushback.