YOMI PRESENTS OUR PRE EVO MKX TIER LIST (RV2.0)

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

NICE another tier list putting Quan chi on S+ lvl cuz a character who can't deal with pressure in a rushdown heavy game sure deserves S+ Ranking, and don't tell me "Uhh warlock n shit" Quan is only there cuz of summoner's and sorcerer's tool set. Cuz if Quan had to pick Warlock for every matchup he gets pressured then he had to pick warlock against: Raiden, D'vorah, Jax, Kung Jin, Predator, Cassie , Sonya, Erron black, Shinnok, Tanya, Kung lao, Johnny cage, Jacqui Briggs, and lui kang while losing hes strong zoning and safeish meterless vortex for a wakeup that can get stuffed easily by some of those chars. With 85% of hes strings beeing minus -10 to -15 and any string other than b2 or 14 canceled into mb rune beeing armorable, without summoner or sorcerer he wouldn't be anywhere near top 5. hes top 8 fore sure but not Fucking godtier.

That argument is dumb, so you are saying a character is top tier ONLY because of his moveset in said variation. But every single character is where he/she is because of their moveset lol. I'm sorry you actually have to block sometimes instead of bullying your oponent with endless 50/50's and the best zoning of the game.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

My Personal Tier List (Update 1.07)

1.) Kung Lao
2.) Raiden
3.) Quan Chi
4.) D'Vorah
5.) Erron Black
6.) Cassie Cage
7.) Sonya Blade
8.) Jax
9.) Shinnok
10.) Kung Jin
11.) Ermac
12.) Kenshi
13.) Sub-Zero
14.) Tanya
15.) Kano
16.) Johnny Cage
17.) Scorpion
18.) Kitana
19.) Liu Kang
20.) Takeda
21.) Ferra / Torr
22.) Kotal Kahn
23.) Reptile
24.) Mileena
25.) Jacqui
26.) Jason
27.) Goro

Subzero is better than tanya thats pretty funny

 

[Zoidberg747]

NICE another tier list putting Quan chi on S+ lvl cuz a character who can't deal with pressure in a rushdown heavy game sure deserves S+ Ranking, and don't tell me "Uhh warlock n shit" Quan is only there cuz of summoner's and sorcerer's tool set. Cuz if Quan had to pick Warlock for every matchup he gets pressured then he had to pick warlock against: Raiden, D'vorah, Jax, Kung Jin, Predator, Cassie , Sonya, Erron black, Shinnok, Tanya, Kung lao, Johnny cage, Jacqui Briggs, and lui kang while losing hes strong zoning and safeish meterless vortex for a wakeup that can get stuffed easily by some of those chars. With 85% of hes strings beeing minus -10 to -15 and any string other than b2 or 14 canceled into mb rune beeing armorable, without summoner or sorcerer he wouldn't be anywhere near top 5. hes top 8 fore sure but not Fucking godtier.

I think a lot of characters wouldn't be as high without their best variations.

The fact is though these guys have been playing against the best Quan(results wise) every day and probably labbed him up every times. But with his offensive capabilities Quan is not a character you can just lab away because he still revolves guessing with his vortex and guessing when he'll move. If he had a good armor/wakeup he'd probably be the best in the game, or close to it.

 

[Indypride]

IMO it takes a very special combination of arrogance and ignorance to suggest that high level players haven't explored the possibilities of each character and variation by now.

You realize that YOMI has character specialists for Mileena, Goro, and F/T, right? Hell, I have put HARDLY ANY time into MKX and have labbed all 3 of them.

People said the same shit in MK9 about low tiers like Jade, Sheeva, and Kano. "Hurr dude they're just unexplored and they just need someone who can make them broken." Guess what? Krayzie and Mr. Mileena both had great Jades. Jeremiah and Tyrant had godlike Sheevas. Scar had a godlike Kano. Guamokun and J360 both made Cyber-Sub look viable. What do they all have in common? They knew the characters, at the end of the day, were ass. They all ended up maining other, BETTER, characters in tournament.

I've learned my lesson and will not allow these garbage arguments to be made. Unless YOU are willing to prove otherwise, cut the "unexplored" argument bullshit.

The burden of proof isn't on Metzos. He isn't the one who posted the "tier" list (and yet actually has more explanation in his post than YOMI's OP). YOMI did the original post, so its on them to actually explain why they have certain characters where they are at. All I know is, without in depth explanation, a "tier" list like this is completely meaningless. And even if NRS never released another patch, I GUARANTEE YOU this list would look pretty different a year from now. It is not arrogant or ignorant to suggest that a group of professional players might not have put a ton of thought or effort into a TYM post (they already admitted to putting minimal effort into the first tier list 2 weeks ago), or that they could be incorrect about the placement for at least a few of the characters.

Just an aside, I'd like to point out that the gap between low tier and high tier characters in MKX is WAY smaller than it was in MK9. I feel like a much larger percentage of the cast is competitively viable in MKX.

Bottom line though, until actual matchups/variations and in depth analysis of a characters tools are discussed in the thread itself, I cant put a whole lot of stock into a thread like this. Regardless of how incredibly talented the players are who posted it.

 

[Wetdoba]

So just like the last one they made, looks like a classic case of Characters YOMI guys play are at the top, and characters that YOMI guys don't play are at the bottom. Onceagain they provide no explaination to their choices on character placement, they just drop a list like it's the official tier placements for everyone in the game and don't care to discuss it with the rest of the site. And once again this list means nothing to me

 

[aieches]

Personally I think the community should establish a matchup chart. I think that would end a lot of this conjecture.

Base the tier list off hard numbers and let that decide.

World War 3 confirmed

lol

 

[trufenix]

I wonder, with youtube uploads, lets play streams, locals every week, and majors every month what is the actual point of a tier list now?

Even if this was a good one (which it isn't), can anyone say this information is actually beneficial?

 

[BillStickers]

A tier list is almost always reflective of the current meta. The only time I've seen a tier list *not* be reflective of the current meta is when you have the benefit of tool-assisted gameplay that demonstrates absolute highest level play (ice climbers in smash being a great example of that; they're extremely difficult to use, but have the potential for chain grab infinites, which solidifies their spot in A-tier).

I disagree with the notion, though, that a tier list has no value unless it can stand the test of time. If there's some other way to name a character ranking aside from "tier list" to represent the *current state* of the game, then by all means enlighten us. I think stifling discussion for the sake of semantics, though, is counterproductive.

 

[Indypride]

A tier list is almost always reflective of the current meta. The only time I've seen a tier list *not* be reflective of the current meta is when you have the benefit of tool-assisted gameplay that demonstrates absolute highest level play (ice climbers in smash being a great example of that; they're extremely difficult to use, but have the potential for chain grab infinites, which solidifies their spot in A-tier).

I disagree with the notion, though, that a tier list has no value unless it can stand the test of time. If there's some other way to name a character ranking aside from "tier list" to represent the *current state* of the game, then by all means enlighten us. I think stifling discussion for the sake of semantics, though, is counterproductive.

You are right. Its hyperbole to say that YOMI's post is COMPLETELY meaningless, but I think that a much more interesting discussion could occur if they would elaborate and analyze what makes a character fall where they are, rather than just put numbers on the screen. For example, although I am no Ferra/Torr expert, I agree with @UltraDavid that F/T has the tools to be way higher than #19 in the entire game. That doesn't necessarily mean that F/T IS better than #19, but hearing YOMI's reasoning would definitely be enlightening.

I don't wish to stifle discussion, I wish YOMI would back up their list with actual information. Given that they are VERY knowledgeable, they could help explain matchups and problems characters have that lesser players don't necessarily see or understand.

 

[Matador Fiend]

I believe that some characters are low in the list, simply because, they dont have good reps yet.

Prime examples are Goro, F/T, Jason (especially after the buffs/fixes he received), Liu Kang and probably Mileena.

Mileena especially, might have risky mix ups (and since we are humans we wont be able to block her mix ups all the time), but she can deal good damage with one bar, has above average zoning and good armored anti-wake up normals. Also her hit box is not something to not take account into.

Being a Goro main, i really cant accept that he is last in the list, especially KW variation. That means that he loses against the entire cast, which is not true at all. Yes, he has AA issues, but that alone does not make him bottom 1 lol. There are others who also have AA problems as well, including some of the high tiers.

His worst MU's are KL, Tanya and QC. Other than that, the rest of his MU's are highly winnable.

Same with F/T, especially Vicious variation. You can put a character who is the safest in the game at everything, has excellent range, corner pressure, good AA's, very good meterless damage from both the low and overhead combo starter and excellent anti-zoning tools, at the bottom, if you havent explored him yet.

So, all in all, i believe this list is about the representation some characters have gotten until now and we are starting to see the results of those characters, while others, remain, mostly, unexplored.

Bottom line,


Too soon for a MU chart people.

P.S: I am writing this taking into account what OP said. That even if a character is low tier, it does not mean that he/she is not viable.

To put it another way, who is Goro better than if he isnt bottom 1? What character is there where you think, oh Goro would be the better choice if i wanted to win.

I also think he gets boned hardcord by scorpion and mileena. Your thoughts?

 

[Matador Fiend]

The burden of proof isn't on Metzos. He isn't the one who posted the "tier" list (and yet actually has more explanation in his post than YOMI's OP). YOMI did the original post, so its on them to actually explain why they have certain characters where they are at. All I know is, without in depth explanation, a "tier" list like this is completely meaningless. And even if NRS never released another patch, I GUARANTEE YOU this list would look pretty different a year from now. It is not arrogant or ignorant to suggest that a group of professional players might not have put a ton of thought or effort into a TYM post (they already admitted to putting minimal effort into the first tier list 2 weeks ago), or that they could be incorrect about the placement for at least a few of the characters.

Just an aside, I'd like to point out that the gap between low tier and high tier characters in MKX is WAY smaller than it was in MK9. I feel like a much larger percentage of the cast is competitively viable in MKX.

Bottom line though, until actual matchups/variations and in depth analysis of a characters tools are discussed in the thread itself, I cant put a whole lot of stock into a thread like this. Regardless of how incredibly talented the players are who posted it.

Ive seen forever king explain quite a few times why goro is garbage, thouh not in this particular thread

 

[Indypride]

Ive seen forever king explain quite a few times why goro is garbage, thouh not in this particular thread

That's one out of 27 characters on this list. And as you said, its not in this thread. Should people really have to go to Twitch archives and Youtube and Twitter and other threads on TYM to try to piece together WHY characters are where they are on this tier list? I don't think so

 

[TheGoldenJew]

but twitters easier bro cause all of yomi is on twitter and only sometimes come on tym :/

 

[trufenix]

@BillStickers, you misunderstand my question. The validity of the data is not in question. I want to know what is its role in meta discussions.

Once upon a time we needed a tier list to understand / appreciate the meta. It was the only way for everyone in the scene to know they were playing the same game. Now, we can actively see what game everyone is playing. There is no more "well we've got a player / tech no one has ever seen before". If I want to know how bad / good a character (or even matchup) is, I can literally go on youtube and find it out in a heartbeat.

So I ask the question, what is anyone getting out of this list / thread besides a thinly veiled circus of upplaying / downplaying? Assuming this list is actually correct, does this list actually tell anyone here anything they don't already know? And if it isn't providing any actual useful information, is it really worth 16+ pages of dick wagging?

 

[Herrm]

but twitters easier bro cause all of yomi is on twitter and only sometimes come on tym :/

Not ALL of them, apparently...

Follow our players:
YOMI DJT
YOMI REO
YOMI MIT
YOMI MICHAELANGELO
YOMI FOREVER KING
YOMI SLAYER
YOMI ZYPHOX

 

[Yoaks]

To put it another way, who is Goro better than if he isnt bottom 1? What character is there where you think, oh Goro would be the better choice if i wanted to win.

I also think he gets boned hardcord by scorpion and mileena. Your thoughts?

How does Goro get "boned" by Mileena?

 

[Doombawkz]

Our list is based on the assumption that a character is using the variation that is best for the matchup they are facing.

Not to be corrective, but the F/T forum hasn't even made our own MU chart because we know our character isn't developed yet.

Can I assume your numbers to be somewhat questionable or wrong because of it?

 

[Predannok]

That argument is dumb, so you are saying a character is top tier ONLY because of his moveset in said variation. But every single character is where he/she is because of their moveset lol. I'm sorry you actually have to block sometimes instead of bullying your oponent with endless 50/50's and the best zoning of the game.

remove Summoners bat for safe vortex and mixups , remove sorcerers armor and chip and then tell me quan chi is top 5. "Endless 50/50's" did u read the part about hes low not beeing safe at all? IF they want to do a real tier list they would give a each variation of each character a ranking and a overall ranking not just Quan chi #4 nuff said. 2 weeks ago Kenshi was top 6 now suddenly hes #14 and Kano fucking kano who only got ONE gud variation cuz the others either a don't work right/bugged or just plain useless And hes higher than ERMAC, Lui kang and fucking johnny cage.

 

[Endding]

Mileena's top tier if you flip the list upside down.

#nerfmileena

 

[Wetdoba]

Not to be corrective, but the F/T forum hasn't even made our own MU chart because we know our character isn't developed yet.

Can I assume your numbers to be somewhat questionable or wrong because of it?

Nah dude they're grinding out every FT match up, every Reptile match up, every Kitana match up, every Jason match up all more than us. They know where everyone lies, they just don't discuss them with any of the other players because there's no point if they already know the MU's at the highest level

 

[DreadKnight1]

i cant get past forever king's quote on his name...'top 5 nrs player'...yeah if the mu is always greater than or equal to 6-4 in a ft3...

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Glad to see Jacqui at the bottom. Worse character design since Kobra.

 

[Yoaks]

Glad to see Jacqui at the bottom. Worse character design since Kobra.

Super lame character.

 

[juicepouch]

To put it another way, who is Goro better than if he isnt bottom 1? What character is there where you think, oh Goro would be the better choice if i wanted to win.

I also think he gets boned hardcord by scorpion and mileena. Your thoughts?

I don't think he's particularly worse than the other 5 or so characters in that bottom group

if you have to play in front of goro and you can't just jump all over him and zone him out you have to deal with his game, and that's a scary proposition when you have to play footsies with f3 punchwalk and sweep , especially if you lack powerful footsie tools

 

[Doombawkz]

To put it another way, who is Goro better than if he isnt bottom 1? What character is there where you think, oh Goro would be the better choice if i wanted to win.

I also think he gets boned hardcord by scorpion and mileena. Your thoughts?

Goro punches Vicious F/T in the face pretty hard and outzones that variation in Tigrar, so its not like he just loses everything.