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YOMI PRESENTS OUR PRE EVO MKX TIER LIST (RV2.0)

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
Like here is a real tier list(also my personal one but nobody cares about that)


S: Kung Lao
A+: Jax, Cassie, Dvorah, Shinnok
A: Quan, Raiden, Ermac, Erron, Kung Jin, Scorpion, Kitana, Tanya
B: Kenshi, Takeda, Kotal, Loo Kang, Johnny, Kano, Sub Zero, Sonya, Jacqui
C: Mileena, Goro, F/T, Reptile, Jason

Do like that in future, numbered listings mean shit all. Is reptile 1 better than Mileena? Or one worse? What does that even mean.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
how is mileena 23rd... i dont get it, roll 8frames quick recovery, full combo starter with 9 frame move 21 nice range with piercing .
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Barely any mix-ups (Her only good overhead is EX Roll), Super unsafe, can't really get damage without meter
21U4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4, EX roll and low sai, she can also roll off d3/4, F4... so how is it she has no good mixup options.

and 21u4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4 : are all safe on block, so why are there no good mixups?

i seem to remember people saying the same about kitana?

also i can get 38% without meter.... and 42 with a bar, what damage are you expecting?

she also has a small breath/hitbox... can low profile many moves easily... i dont understand?

most of the cast dont have this many mixup options and when they do they are all unsafe on block.

and by the way her F234 can be canceled into Flip n Roll after F23~ so they think they have to block low... so i say once again why is she 23rd?
 
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21U4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4, EX roll and low sai, she can also roll off d3/4, F4... so how is it she has no good mixup options.

and 21u4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4 : are all safe on block, so why are there no good mixups?

i seem to remember people saying the same about kitana?

also i can get 38% without meter.... and 42 with a bar, what damage are you expecting?

she also has a small breath/hitbox... can low profile many moves easily... i dont understand?

most of the cast dont have this many mixup options and when they do they are all unsafe on block.

and by the way her F234 can be canceled into Flip n Roll after F23~ so they think they have to block low... so i say once again why is she 23rd?
Mileena's mix-ups are easy to read and block and she is not safe at all lol. She also has a hard time opening up people. And if you're getting hit by F3, that is so bad, it's so slow. It can't even punish Mileena's roll
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
21U4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4, EX roll and low sai, she can also roll off d3/4, F4... so how is it she has no good mixup options.

and 21u4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4 : are all safe on block, so why are there no good mixups?

i seem to remember people saying the same about kitana?

also i can get 38% without meter.... and 42 with a bar, what damage are you expecting?

she also has a small breath/hitbox... can low profile many moves easily... i dont understand?

most of the cast dont have this many mixup options and when they do they are all unsafe on block.

and by the way her F234 can be canceled into Flip n Roll after F23~ so they think they have to block low... so i say once again why is she 23rd?
Are you kidding me dude?
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
21U4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4, EX roll and low sai, she can also roll off d3/4, F4... so how is it she has no good mixup options.

and 21u4, F344, F234, F143, F44,F4 : are all safe on block, so why are there no good mixups?

i seem to remember people saying the same about kitana?

also i can get 38% without meter.... and 42 with a bar, what damage are you expecting?

she also has a small breath/hitbox... can low profile many moves easily... i dont understand?

most of the cast dont have this many mixup options and when they do they are all unsafe on block.

and by the way her F234 can be canceled into Flip n Roll after F23~ so they think they have to block low... so i say once again why is she 23rd?
EX roll is super punisheable
F4 alone is -30 LOL
F44 is punisheable by some characters
F143 has a gap in Piercing so they can armor out
Low sai is super punisheable
21U4 has a gap where they can armor.
Doing D3~roll is suicide lol, even if the D3 hits roll will get blocked and punished...
F234 is NOT safe, it's -10
People should NEVER get hit by F3, if they do it's their fault. And F344 is nowhere near safe, it's -19.

She has literally no mix-ups when she has no meter, and when she does she takes huge risks with them. All the string that you listed and more are good, but when she has no meter you aren't mixing anyone up, and again, even with meter the mix-ups she gains are the most punisheable ones of the game.


She is not a bad character, but when she gets compared to everyone else she is just not that good. Is she viable? I think she is.... She has to work harder than most characters for sure and she is definitely bottom 10, even bottom 5.


EDIT: oops I forgot about the gap inbetween F44 so ya... F44 is also pubisheable by everyone.
 
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Blonde_Huntress

Edenian Witch <3
Mileena is a glass cannon. She's got awesome pressure (and she can hit hard with a bar), she just doesn't have the safety options or the 50/50s. Even then, I could overlook the 50/50s if she had some safer options at her disposal that made it a fair trade.

The problem, however, is that it's really hard to turn a randomly done(or even nicely timed) roll into much, even with meter. You can B34, air sai, xxx (depending on variation). You're only netting high teens-mid twenty damage. She doesn't have the options Kitana has from, say, a stray air fan that she can turn into 30+% damage AND still carry you all the way to the corner. I'm using Kitana as an example because she's been a hot topic here lately. But fact remains, Kitana can get GOOD damage from a simple jump kick-->air fan, xxx. It's even scarier in Assassin if she's got Sharpen activated. She can get over 40% off of something as basic as that in that scenario. Mileena's air sai pales horribly in comparison.

It's not all horrible for Mileena though--I do want to bring up some good points for her.

In corner, she gets a nice restand option with B12 1+3 in Piercing with frame advantage. Not to mention, she has CRAZY good range with B12 in Piercing anyway. High Pounce in Ravenous helps to clip up some of her horribly negative frames from her BnB's, and it's also her highest damage output variant. Fades in Ethereal help with pressure and mix ups, and EX Fade is a free wake up and also acts as a safe corner escape. She's got good tools, she's just too modest in comparison to what some of the others have.
 
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EX roll is super punisheable
F4 alone is -30 LOL
F44 is punisheable by some characters
F143 has a gap in Piercing so they can armor out
Low sai is super punisheable
21U4 has a gap where they can armor.
Doing D3~roll is suicide lol, even if the D3 hits roll will get blocked and punished...
F234 is NOT safe, it's -10
People should NEVER get hit by F3, if they do it's their fault. And F344 is nowhere near safe, it's -19.

She has literally no mix-ups when she has no meter, and when she does she takes huge risks with them. All the string that you listed and more are good, but when she has no meter you aren't mixing anyone up, and again, even with meter the mix-ups she gains are the most punisheable ones of the game.


She is not a bad character, but when she gets compared to everyone else she is just not that good. Is she viable? I think she is.... She has to work harder than most characters for sure and she is definitely bottom 10, even bottom 5.


EDIT: oops I forgot about the gap inbetween F44 so ya... F44 is also pubisheable by everyone.
Thx , now i will use this to put all the mileenas to rest when i start a debate with them :DOGE
 

Blonde_Huntress

Edenian Witch <3
Still want low Roll!

I seriously don't think it's THAT OP. I think she needs a little something to make her less modest and punishable. She already has probably THE most punishable strings and specials.

But that always causes a debate for some reason, and ONLY with Mileena mains. I'd personally LIKE a better 50/50 game versus a virtually non existent one for her.

I just think it's counterproductive to say she's good as she is, but then turn around and say how bad she is in comparison to the rest of the cast. A little OP on SOMETHING wouldn't hurt. That's just me though.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
The more and more I play Relentless Jason, the less and less likely I think it is that he is the fourth worst of all best variations.
 

Obamu

Noob
How I see things:

SSS: Unblockable fireball: (currently only corrupted Shinnok has this); (fast:startup/recovery, plus on block, hits mid, neutral-punch like chip, MB for unblockable version)

SS: fast, safe, fast recovery projectiles / zoning tools: (Note that zoning tools that are not fast, not safe, not fast recovery projectiles / zoning tool is not on this tier)(I can only think of Kano's Knife(also hits mid), Not saying Kano is overall SS) reason ofcourse you can't punish what's out of reach even if you blocked, if it's recovery is faster, they simply block or whiff if you try to answer with a fireball/teleport too; builds-up meter, for me fun & frustrating for the enemy, almost forgot to mention its unbreakable too.

S: Frame trap, plus on block: you deal damage while they can't; lower than SS cause it's breakable and mostly have to come face-to-face.

A+: Blocking: lower than all of the above cause obviously you don't deal damage while you take some, and you can't punish cause they're+ on block or worse zoned-out, on the plus side, you can punish things that are not the above list like unsafe moves. works on all ranges lol.

A: fast mix-ups and high damaging combos: lower than block cause you won't deal enough damage if they blocked/guessed right and can be punished. not all mix-ups cause there are some that are slow like Jason Slasher F42

B: Grabs/throws: Only works face-to-face, fixed-damage to hard-knockdown; I know you'll refute somewhere along the lines of "But throws counter Blocking" yeah but as I said throws only works face range, also after they're knocked-down they have plenty of options, armored-wakeups, pokes, etc. highly susceptible to zoning and long enough pokes; simply gives more time & options to reply than the above list for the fixed damage.

C: Breaking & X-moves: Obviously cause they cost meter, everyone has them that's why they're low tier but cringe at their cost; for the sake X-move are risky.

Note: All of the above can be a special / non-special type of move. Note I might miss some elements like Tele's it's mostly matter if it's safe or + on block, depending on it's data sheet or how you use them it either falls to S or A. pokes are A. just understand where would they probably categorize in.

Reference: Kung Lao has decently fast, safe, fast recovery projectile; not exactly frame-trap but good enough on block; fast mix-ups and ofcourse high damaging combos. A throw that is just fun to use over and over and can last hit with a brutality, fairly doable Grab/throw out of his tele.

Pre-nerf Tanya: she had SS type w/c is fast, safe, fast recovery projectiles / zoning tools. thou there can be answers like some air-drop tele like mileena, it can be baited.

tl;dr: Fast, safe, fast recovery projectiles / zoning tools; and plus on block are king.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
I actually think Jax and Cassie might wind up being closer to the tip top along with bone shaper, tempest and dragon's fire and idk about tanya now.

There's certain offense that characters can't deal with or wake up out of. when you look at jax and spec ops they have almost everything indicative of what is top tier. Jax has overwhelming pressure that'd certain chars can't deal with, Spec ops has dumb mixups that in some situations are scare blocked, a cheap advancing mid that dominates footsies, quick armor that leads to a combo (cassie has the adv. of a safe 6 frame move), strong counter-poke tools, cassie has cheap hitbox.

Quan chi is a weird case, because he literally kills with pure vortex and has a crazy neutral game, but him and others that are up there imo don't necessarily have the universal tool kits to deal with some of the overwhelming offense the cast has. Spec Ops cassie in particular ahs this.

You look at predator, Hish qu Ten's zoning is absolutely retarded, and Hunter has itself a fairly unapproachable neutral game in a few matchups with a stupid mixup, but literally there is nothing he can do vs some of the offense in this game and he cannot wakeup. Literally he can't do anything vs liu kang up close. Dvorah is another who is amazing all around but im not sure if her armor is good enough.

I think that is going to be a theme in this game where there are certain chars who are just unstoppable up close, and only certain chars can deal with it.
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
Everyone calls Mileena unsafe yet I never hear mentions of how you can OS her lows making her ex roll the only unsafe option. F3 while slow is not totally useless as it crushes low pokes (read low, not mid). Personally, I think people try to make her out to be too offensively minded when she has the ability to create situations and punish with mid30 meterless BnBs, outside of up close pressure. Also how can you have glass cannons in this game when everyone has the same size life bar?
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Everyone calls Mileena unsafe yet I never hear mentions of how you can OS her lows making her ex roll the only unsafe option. F3 while slow is not totally useless as it crushes low pokes (read low, not mid). Personally, I think people try to make her out to be too offensively minded when she has the ability to create situations and punish with mid30 meterless BnBs, outside of up close pressure. Also how can you have glass cannons in this game when everyone has the same size life bar?
Her F4 is unsafe with option select or not, and 21 is safe against most of the cast but unless you are using Ravenous, you need meter to create a mix-up situation with S2 and even then her low option being safe doesn't mean much since a few characters get a punish and others get a 50/50 or pressure afterwards. F12B4~roll option select is so inconsistent that is not even worth doing.



EDIT: her F3 doesn't crouch lows as it should tho.