Guide - Fisticuffs Fisticuffs Guide

[Frosted 57]

Frosted, where do you live that you can't find a scene?

I live on the eastern side of Long Island. I know there is some stuff that goes on in and around NYC, (Like Next Level and CDjr's sessions), but that is like 1:30 to 2:30 drive for me depending on traffic and the parking in those areas is awful. It is something I would only be able to do like once a month at most and at that point why bother. I've tried posting in the NY regional threads and such and just never got responses.

The big nail in the coffin for this for me is that with the 10 frame startup I would now need to relearn all the timings for his pressure and combos. I value my time more than relearning how to use a bad character.

When the opponent is blocking and you are just doing b121212 the pressure is pretty much the same. So people who are claiming that it is easier to get out of on block are fooling themselves. It is as easy as it always was people just didn't care. The issues come in with how bad his staggers are now. Every character can freely poke out, there is a massive gap in the string and if you still have issues with it there is no hope for you. Cage's fast normals are pretty slow and short reaching. His Ex Forceballs push him out of range of his own attacks. The design of this character is even more of a joke now than it was. With Fisticuffs, Cage's fast normals are short reaching and relatively slow, his anti-air game is bad, his jump attacks are bad, the arc and hurtbox on his jumps are awful, his mixups aren't real, his projectile game is mediocre to above average, his chip damage is average, his ability to advance safely is bad, his block pressure now is also pretty bad. The only thing this patch did was add that last one.

As for tournament performance, what I truly remember is DJT using Tempest Lao for most of TCW then using Fisticuffs for 3 matches in top 8. He 3-0'd SonicFox, then played him again and lost 3-5. It took SonicFox like 20 minutes to adapt to Fisticuffs and make DJT switch back to Tempest Lao. I'm not gonna lie I wholeheartedly felt like the EB matchup was in Fisticuffs favor before this patch.

Outside of that, with people claiming it was his worst variation you are wrong. A-list was and is his best, no question. But Fisticuffs was about even with or better than Stunt Double. They both had their holes and gaps in their pressure but they were viable in different ways. Most Stunt Double play I have seen in tournaments I face palm at what they get away with. I'm not saying it's bad, but believing that Stunt Double was leagues better than Fisticuffs... c'mon guys.

 

[ismael4790]

You have reason, Frosted. Fisticuffs was a very solid variation, just with a different kind of pressure than the other ones. You had to work a bit more your wins, taking some risks with staggers. At the beggining it doesn't seemed to have so many tools as the other ones, but I liked it.

I really hope nrs takes a step back on what most of us think is a big mistake. Speedbag was good, but when one was used to the matchup, was not a huge problem and of course was not a broken tool. I'm not hoping 0 on block to come back. But -1 would be a good decision, and would let fisti make some decent pressure, not as now. I don't think the added frame to b1 was necessary either...

 

[UnD34D]

lots of stuff

I'll be honest man, that doesn't seem like a reason not to go. In Iowa, it's an hour and a half drive from my place to go play one other player. Literally one other guy. I still do it. In Massachusetts, I live in Amherst. It's a 2 hour drive to Boston, depending on traffic (2 hours with no traffic), and I do it. It supports your scene, but more importantly, it grows you as a player. Someone who knows Johnny as well as you do, you could do well. Don't not go just because it kind of sucks to get there. Go once a month, participate.

I don't think fisticuffs was leagues worse than stunt double, but I do think that stunt double was better. It's DEFINITELY better now. The only reason I say it was better is simply because it has higher raw damage, better mid screen pressure, and safe defense. I still chose fisticuffs over it because I liked the play a lot better. I'm switching completely now though. Trying to decide a new character currently. Probably going to Cassie, maybe DF Liu. I don't know, I've been practicing Ermac, but I don't see a point to switch to a character lower than high tier.

 

[Frosted 57]

When I said "why bother" it was not in relation to going, I agree it would be worth going. It was about bothering to continue playing at all if my goal is to once a month play offline while driving for 3 to 5 hours and spending about 30min looking for a parking spot. Especially with the gas money and bridge tolls it would take to get there, it just doesn't seem like a good investment of my time to continue to play if that is the only time I get to play other people. It sucks and I wish I had another option, but I don't at this point.

 

[Matador Fiend]

The best guide for fisticuffs is to select A ist or another character.

 

[ismael4790]

The best guide for fisticuffs is to select A ist or another character.

Fisticuffs still has a great and very fun style of play. Right now, though, he's not a good choice for tournaments or serious gameplay, but if nrs buffs him a bit (like making speedbag a bit better than now, or giving him a new string, or making the fist bump activation safer) he can be a very solid choice in every context.

Fisticuffs was my main, and still is, I'm sure he will have a boost soon.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

I was looking through J. Cage's frame data in case there was any stealth changes with this latest patch, and I noticed that B1 is listed as 11 frames instead of 10. And now I can't remember if it was listed as that prior to this last patch.

I'm curious if anybody knows whether this is a mistake in the move list, an additional frame of start-up added by this patch, or if B1 being 10 frames was a mistake in the patch notes for 6/23.

 

[Hawfy]

I was looking through J. Cage's frame data in case there was any stealth changes with this latest patch, and I noticed that B1 is listed as 11 frames instead of 10. And now I can't remember if it was listed as that prior to this last patch.

I'm curious if anybody knows whether this is a mistake in the move list, an additional frame of start-up added by this patch, or if B1 being 10 frames was a mistake in the patch notes for 6/23.

I am in the UK & dont have the patch yet and it says Cages B1 is 10 frames.

 

[Devin Thorn]

I was looking through J. Cage's frame data in case there was any stealth changes with this latest patch, and I noticed that B1 is listed as 11 frames instead of 10. And now I can't remember if it was listed as that prior to this last patch.

I'm curious if anybody knows whether this is a mistake in the move list, an additional frame of start-up added by this patch, or if B1 being 10 frames was a mistake in the patch notes for 6/23.

If they made b1 an 11 frame move I would be so pissed. It's the start to a string called SPEED BAG 7 or 8 frames is speed not ten frame bs or God forbid 11

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

Thanks, Hawfy.

So it looks like we received a stealth nerf of an additional frame of start-up for B1. Can anyone else verify or debunk this?

 

[Devin Thorn]

I'm getting 11 frames to. This is beyond comprehensible

 

[Frosted 57]

Again, patch isn't out on Xbox yet so I can't test. I will say though that I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a frame fix since the nerf from last patch felt like more than 1 frame. All this would likely mean is that they nerfed it more than we thought/were told last patch.

 

[Devin Thorn]

Again, patch isn't out on Xbox yet so I can't test. I will say though that I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a frame fix since the nerf from last patch felt like more than 1 frame. All this would likely mean is that they nerfed it more than we thought/were told last patch.

Agreed it did feel more than just a frame of difference since I'm not the most sensitive to frame stuff like others and I noticed the difference.

 

[ismael4790]

What can I say... xD
Yeah, in the last patch the move looked like it was more than one frame slower...
As Devin says, a move called speedbag, with 11 frame startup is ridiculous!

 

[P.F.]

Very good read.

As someone who is just starting to learn the game it really taught me a lot; I never would have guessed a variation built around 2 unique combos would be so technical. (not nearly as technical as lets say A-List, but it's not braindead)

I do wonder why NRS decided to go after Cage so hard in the patch though...he was already mediocre at best it seems, and there are other characters with much more exploitable tools. Some of them got nerfed too...but the difference is, it didn't seem to hurt them nearly as much as Fisticuffs.

 

[DenTheGod]

This is a great guide. Thanks for writing this up. I find Fisticuffs the most fun to play as even though a lot of people write it off as one of the worst variations of the game. Then again, I'm not a pro player and none of the people I play with are either. I started out with A-List and I got the execution for the run cancels down but the problem is online lag will throw off the timing at the worst times. I'll use it offline but Fisticuffs is just a whole lot easier online. Offline I will usually just switch between the two.