What's new

Guide - Fisticuffs Fisticuffs Guide

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Nobody won anything with Cage Fisticuff...DJT played a great tournament and placed 2nd because he is extremely good and people were also uncomfortable with the matchup, not because Fisticuff is top or anything. He already had holes in the b121212 pressure. This nerf is just dumb....
Totally dumb, yeah. The string was good (the only move that made the variation special), but fair, with gaps to armor through.
Also, the fist bump loses now a lot of utility, because it was combined with this string where the chip increase shined.

I expected people to cry after watching djt, but I never expected nrs to touch Cage because of it xD Djt played very good, and Quan was a very bad choice against fisti, that was all.
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
HA Cassie can regular getaway flip out of b121 and full punish now

*edit; It's possible that this was always the case and I was too dumb to notice, I'm not sure.
 
Last edited:

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
Okay. I have adjusted the main thread accordingly. While all pressure utilizing b121 is worse, the way had everything phrased is still correct as far as playstyle goes. It is just far more risky.

Every hit of b121 is now -3 on block. The push back does not seem to be changed or if it has it is subtle. You still get between 5-8 hits on block depending on the character.

As of now it appears that the gap is the same size. 14 frame armored reversals still trade while slower ones get beat.

What this boils down to is that Fisticuffs is just going to have a much harder time in a lot of matchups. His fastest moves are a 9 frame high and an 8 frame d1. Most characters in the game can beat that. So since he is always negative when you stagger this string it is going to be very easy for most characters to just poke out. There is a 13 frame gap between the next b1 after it is staggered and a 12 frame gap before a 1.

The issue I have with this is that his offensive (non-mixup) pressure was nerfed while he received no other changes or fixes in return. It was a mid-tier variation at best, with some matchups that were more in his favor than others.

Fisticuffs is now undoubtedly Johnny's worst variation and with the buffs given out this patch possibly one of the worst in the game.

I do not enjoy flaming or ranting on forums, I've always tried to be concise and make my point clear and be done with it. So, with that, here I go.

Now I know I am in the minority but while I found it interesting to play and fiddle with some other characters and variations this was the only variation in the game that I actually enjoyed playing consistently. I have little reason to continue playing this variation at this point. Even if they do decide to fix or buff it in some other way, it will likely be a month or more before the next patch.

With this patch Flame Fist now has the ability to cancel its' damage buff into his safe on block special that will still combo on hit. I do not understand NRS buff/nerf decisions. This patch seems like they changed far too much across the cast.

The Johnny Cage character forum has been what I consider to be one of, if not the most level-headed character forum on this entire site. For that, almost every character that could be considered worse than Cage as well as some who were on the same tier got buffs while he got nerfs and no fixes. So we've done it guys, Cage is now likely bottom 5. I am not going to make any excessive threads or posts about how you need cry to get anything done for your character despite the evidence to support the validity of that statement. I have said what I wanted to say. I am done now.

I will likely be playing MKX far less often now. I have tried to find a local scene but have never gotten any responses, the online isn't good, and the only variation that I actually enjoyed playing has been nerfed without getting anything in return. So my insight into this character is unlikely to evolve much after this. If I can help and still see questions that I can answer I will try my best to do so. I wish nothing but the best of luck to anyone who continues to use Fisticuffs.
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
My best recommendation at this point is that if you enjoy this style of block pressure switch to Flaming Fists. It now does far more effective chip damage than Fisticuffs ever had. For some reason his damage buff makes him plus on block. Shaolin Flame's damage buff gives him .51% extra chip on every blocked punch. So on any jab that deals .5% chip he is dealing more chip than Cage with Fist Bump active. Liu Kang gets an extended combo or block pressure when activating his buff, the buff gives and increase to the damage of attacks that hit the opponent as well as deals more bonus chip damage on jabs than Cage would. So if this is what you were looking for, try changing characters.
 
Last edited:

infamy23

FireBeard
I'm confused. Why is -3 on block a big deal? Whenever I play a Johnny who uses that string he just keeps doing it after 6 hits and it ends up hitting me half the time if I try to do anything, so I usually just backdash.

It's only -3 if you actually end the string on the 6th hit (on Raiden), which nobody ever does. They are always going to cancel that 6th punch into a 7th punch, so it seems to me that nothing has changed?

I dunno someone clarify please.
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
It's only -3 if you actually end the string on the 6th hit (on Raiden), which nobody ever does. They are always going to cancel that 6th punch into a 7th punch, so it seems to me that nothing has changed?
What you said here doesn't make much sense. If Cage isn't ending the b121 string and staggering it against you, and you aren't just blocking til he is out of range and punishing, you are playing that matchup very wrong. Staggering b121 is a necessity. This issue is that when it is staggered he is at negative frames, and his pressure strings are all fairly slow. Every character can now poke out on a stagger. So his non guaranteed pressure is now even more risky. If they continue to block you get about 2-4% chip, if they react and jab you take about 20%+ damage. That is not the type of risk reward I enjoy playing. I am aware there are more factors than this, but I'm trying to explain it as simply as possible.
 

UnD34D

Noob
Frosted, where do you live that you can't find a scene? Also, I know how you feel. I started with Raiden but never got into it. I loved Fisticuffs, but fuck, it wasn't great to begin with. Almost every fight already felt uphill until I got them to a corner. This nerf is just... what...
 

infamy23

FireBeard
What you said here doesn't make much sense. If Cage isn't ending the b121 string and staggering it against you, and you aren't just blocking til he is out of range and punishing, you are playing that matchup very wrong. Staggering b121 is a necessity. This issue is that when it is staggered he is at negative frames, and his pressure strings are all fairly slow. Every character can now poke out on a stagger. So his non guaranteed pressure is now even more risky. If they continue to block you get about 2-4% chip, if they react and jab you take about 20%+ damage. That is not the type of risk reward I enjoy playing. I am aware there are more factors than this, but I'm trying to explain it as simply as possible.
When I'm using Tanya, he is never out of range. He just keeps whiffing that string right in front of my face, and if I let go of the block button I get hit. So my only option is to reversal backdash after the 6th punch. This is still the case after these changes, is what I was getting at.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
You expressed many people's thoughts, frosted.

This nerf is impossible to believe, I don't know if nrs is more concerned about really making the game better or they just listen people cries, no stopping to think if their petitions make sense. It is crazy that they destroy this variation like this and gave ANYTHING on return, they didn't even fix the errors Johnny still has.

Fisticuffs is not anymore a viable choice. He was a character totally focused on close combat and pressure. A fair pressure. Now he has become a variarion too risky to be taken seriously. His exclusive move, which differentiated him from the others now is extremely easy to poke on reaction (even on bad reaction xD) for the enemy. Just sad. Hope they get this back.

Please, nrs, come to your senses: speedbag needs the old startup and to be 0 on block at least at pair hits in the string as it was. Or god, if you feel the necessity to nerf a variation that indeed needed a BUFF, at least make it -1. But not -3. It's like taking him away from the character select screen.
 
Last edited:

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
Well I never thought that Fistcuffs was ever better than A-List or Stunt Double. So this nerf is pretty minor, doesn't affect him at all really at least imo. He's still strong.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Well I never thought that Fistcuffs was ever better than A-List or Stunt Double. So this nerf is pretty minor, doesn't affect him at all really at least imo. He's still strong.
Fisticuffs was worse than the other two variations. Now sadly it's just trash. This nerf is everything but minor, bro. Puts him at the last places of tier lists no doubt.
 

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
Fisticuffs was worse than the other two variations. Now sadly it's just trash. This nerf is everything but minor, bro. Puts him at the last places of tier lists no doubt.
Well my point was that his viability didn't really change at all if his other 2 variations were better anyway.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Well my point was that his viability didn't really change at all if his other 2 variations were better anyway.
Well as a character he's ok for the other variations, you're right.
But there was absolutely no reason to nerf that variation in particular. It was the worst of the three and one of the most limited in the game indeed. The fact that someone like djt could use it well and exploit his only shining point doesn't mean it needed such a destructive nerf.
 
Last edited:

STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
I need a one button low. Or ex force balls to b plus on block
 
Might be Placebo but is anyone else finding it take longer to run after EX Forceball?
Just confirming cause I may be wrong.

This nerf is Mind numbingly dumb but I guess NRS is too busy making their 20th Scorpion skin to give a damn
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Might be Placebo but is anyone else finding it take longer to run after EX Forceball?
Just confirming cause I may be wrong.

This nerf is Mind numbingly dumb but I guess NRS is too busy making their 20th Scorpion skin to give a damn
I haven't felt that, but i'll try again to see if they fucked him even more xD

I'm quite sure nrs is gonna take a step back with this in the next patch...Damn, if they feel the need to nerf him, at least make speedbag -1. But -3 makes staggers very risky for a low reward.
 

Zebster

How's my volume?
Replace the OP with this
My best recommendation at this point is that if you enjoy this style of block pressure switch to Flaming Fists. It now does far more effective chip damage than Fisticuffs ever had. For some reason his damage buff makes him plus on block. Shaolin Flame's damage buff gives him .51% extra chip on every blocked punch. So on any jab that deals .5% chip he is dealing more chip than Cage with Fist Bump active. Liu Kang gets an extended combo or block pressure when activating his buff, the buff gives and increase to the damage of attacks that hit the opponent as well as deals more bonus chip damage on jabs than Cage would. So if this is what you were looking for, try changing characters.
And the thread title with this:

Fisticuffs Guide: Use Flaming Fists instead