General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[Zephyrus]

He won't get nerfed, just like kitana he needed those buffs to be a viable character. I'm still sticking with impostor though because he's my day 1.

lol no he didn't. I mean, they certainly help him but he didn't need them.

But just watch. He's going to get nerfed. And I'm pretty sure it's boneshaper's fireball that's going to be nerfed.

 

[RM slacked]

lol no he didn't. I mean, they certainly help him but he didn't need them.

But just watch. He's going to get nerfed. And I'm pretty sure it's boneshaper's fireball that's going to be nerfed.

Bone shaper really needed the buffs, he wasn't good compared to impostor. (my opinion)

 

[Youphemism]

Woah woah woah top tier is a bit of a stretch but Shinnok is definitely better than he was...





PRE PATCH

 

[Juggs]

The only nerf he will probably get is MB Hellsparks being +24 on block. It will probably be reduced to +5 on block, or something. Just enough advantage so that it's not free pressure afterwards, but enough to be safe and at frame advantage.

Honestly, I would like a buff and a nerf. Nerf what I said above, but make Hellsparks pushback a little more on block so all 3 hits will hit on block. Not a necessity though.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

i think DR can show us the potential of boneshaper during top 8. hes already doing bf1 in blockstrings and has great footsies.

if he wins CEO then he might get nerfed, but he could get knocked by a tanya... maybe.

what are boneshaper shinnok's weaknesses? i cant think of any atm

 

[RM_NINfan101]

i think DR can show us the potential of boneshaper during top 8. hes already doing bf1 in blockstrings and has great footsies.

if he wins CEO then he might get nerfed, but he could get knocked by a tanya... maybe.

what are boneshaper shinnok's weaknesses? i cant think of any atm

I kinda see it like this:

Necro: Better zoning and catching ability of people waking up, only issue is his negative specials and nothing is safe on block without meter, plus Flick got nerfed and no longer should it be used as much except as a zoning tool. Does EX Flick have a gap though? Doesn't really matter since we have hellsparks that can be MBed.

BS: See this is interesting. I think the only weakness this variation has is just Shinnok's general weaknesses to characters with a Teleport. I... Don't wanna say it but I can see a nerf to this variation in the near future, but I honestly don't think it needs one.

Impostor: It really depends on what special you get and IATP is really good. Unsure if it has any weaknesses aside from being able to react AA a ATP not instant.

General: Teleports and dive kicks. You can EX the startup of Hellsparks so they reach higher but you don't really get much from that.

 

[Malec]

But just watch. He's going to get nerfed. And I'm pretty sure it's boneshaper's fireball that's going to be nerfed.

I cant recall that NRS overbuffed a character and nerfed him again, maybe I am wrong...
but Shinnok isnt broken or anything right now cause of those changes, why would they nerf him? I am not downplaying, Shinnok is really good now imo, but he has nothing, that other top tier chars dont have.

 

[Zephyrus]

I cant recall that NRS overbuffed a character and nerfed him again, maybe I am wrong...
but Shinnok isnt broken or anything right now cause of those changes, why would they nerf him? I am not downplaying, Shinnok is really good now imo, but he has nothing, that other top tier chars dont have.

tempest Lao got buffed and then got nerfed

 

[Asodimazze]

Why should Shinnok get nerfed? Lol
There are far better characters in this game, Shinnok doesn't need any change

 

[True Grave]

What really bothers me is how everyone is hard about him being +8 with his 2in1. It's great, we all get it. But why is no one talking about how he has something far better than that weak sauce. Which by the way can STILL be armored through lol. So 0 (prepatch) or +8 doesn't matter when Scepter Slam and Hell Spark as an ender to the 2in1 are far better. If you can't understand this and need to ask me why then think harder about this and maybe I'll tell you, but here's a hint. It has to do with range...because he can cover all of it.

I personally still believe that Bone Shaper is the best of the 3, but Imposter is just a cunt hair away from BS. We all know why and this didn't even get touched because it's been so strong since the beginning. OH just gave him a 50/50 game with it.

I've been playing all 3 since day one and never stopped playing Shinnok. For most of my MU, I prefer Imposter because iATP is great after some setups and meter building after mimicry. You can do deep JIK for safe teleports, and do peak jump teles then kick to snuff your opponent out.

Bone Shaper is my go to variation when I just feel like zoning because he's now the best zoner in the game. If you don't think so than you're not playing bone shaper correctly.

This only became possible with his most recent buff. Lastly, if I want to troll or see that I'll be having a zoning match and want to force my opponent in then I pick Necromancer. This is an anti-zoning variations and if you don't think so than give it a try against zoners, but its anti, so wait for them to zone and then counteract.

Shinnok has definitely improved since vanilla days and I still think that even wth his OH patch that he was still a viable top 8 contender for tournaments. If I had to give him a tier, I'd say he went from bottom B to the best character in B. At best bottom A, and that's me up playing.

HE IS NOT TOP TIER BUT HE IS A BALANCED CHARACTER, FINALLY!

All in all none of this matters until we get that FINAL PATCH. Until then, let's try to think of ways to open our opponent up because we're safe on block with most things that we do anyway. If you don't think so then test it out for yourself. I may not play a top tier character like other tier whores who left Shinnok in the dust and then came wandering back, but all will bow to him once you learn how to properly play him. Not saying I'm the best, but I thoroughly understand this character. Maybe I'll do everyone a favor and write a guide. That way, instead of bitching about what is better and who can piss the farthest, we can say how do I want to win today.

I'm just tired of the major up playing by commentators who know nothing, and I by no means the best Shinnok out there. I just think we as a Shinnok community need to be honest and see that he's good, but STILL NOT TOP TIER. NOT EVEN TOP 10!!!

 

[Rude]

I don't think Shinnok needs to be nerfed in any variation.

I don't think he necessarily needs any more buffs, either.

He just plays MK X now. Having a potentially looping 50/50 is apart of that.

I am definitely replacing Kano with Shinnok after the patch.

 

[RM slacked]

I don't think Shinnok needs to be nerfed in any variation.

I don't think he necessarily needs any more buffs, either.

He just plays MK X now. Having a potentially looping 50/50 is apart of that.

I am definitely replacing Kano with Shinnok after the patch.

Exactly, I'm finally using Bone Shaper because he's viable now. We're shinnok players (I hope) why are we trying to get our character back to bottom 5?

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I can definitely agree with Necro being more of a counter-zoning variant than an actual zoning variant... To an extent.

But I will say this, I am starting to use Summoned Fiend to snag teleport characters or people who like to wake up. It's good at a little before mid screen, Shinnok doing it any closer than that would likely get punished really hard, but I mean... It still has it's risks especially against those teleport characters if they delay wakeup and you mess up the timing. Something that is pretty common. If you can adjust to the delay wakeups well, Necro can very well be your kinda character.

The problem with Necro ultimately, is that you can backdash all but EX Flick and the unblockable (the unblockable actually still can but it's pretty difficult from what I gathered). You were able to do this before, and even though these moves are better now with tracking, they are still very susceptible. I would honestly say that even though Necro can do the 50/50s just like Bone Shaper and Imp, there's way, way more of a risk and he's read heavy.

But as I told @GGA Max, something I know he would agree with, all variations are worth learning.

Mainly because Imp is really great for... Well we all know why at this point, he gets that damage and setups against characters he otherwise wouldn't get in all of his variations.

Bone Shaper due to the range and sheer damage that I think even Imp's Mimicry damage buff gets a bit jealous at, at times.

Necro if you wanna force your opponent in for sheer pressure and agitation. What really hurts Necro compared to the other two, and no I'm not asking for buffs, he's viable. Wound Cowboy just showed us this, but what hurts that variation is that he actually doesn't do too well against true zoners, but rather characters like Liu Kang in Dragon's Fire with low fireball, air fireball, standing fireball etc... Because Flick does more damage and it's a mid with no meter unlike Bone Shaper's Dark Beam. This is fine, because now we have three variations at least worth learning, that ultimately just give you different ways to incorporate him and his 50/50 mixups if not more with MB sparks on block. @RM Jonnitti showed me that maybe you shouldn't even wait for them to be pushed back all the way, do it right away on the first one to allow you a B3, a grab, a F4... All variations can do this!

My view? Don't just be a Bone Shaper, an Impostor... Learn them all. Learn them all because you never know what you need against a character or a player if we're talking setplay and you know what they can do. Maybe they struggle against flick more than say, ATP or Dark Beam +8 on hit restands.

Just my two cents!

 

[True Grave]

I can definitely agree with Necro being more of a counter-zoning variant than an actual zoning variant... To an extent.

But I will say this, I am starting to use Summoned Fiend to snag teleport characters or people who like to wake up. It's good at a little before mid screen, Shinnok doing it any closer than that would likely get punished really hard, but I mean... It still has it's risks especially against those teleport characters if they delay wakeup and you mess up the timing. Something that is pretty common. If you can adjust to the delay wakeups well, Necro can very well be your kinda character.

The problem with Necro ultimately, is that you can backdash all but EX Flick and the unblockable (the unblockable actually still can but it's pretty difficult from what I gathered). You were able to do this before, and even though these moves are better now with tracking, they are still very susceptible. I would honestly say that even though Necro can do the 50/50s just like Bone Shaper and Imp, there's way, way more of a risk and he's read heavy.

But as I told @GGA Max, something I know he would agree with, all variations are worth learning.

Mainly because Imp is really great for... Well we all know why at this point, he gets that damage and setups against characters he otherwise wouldn't get in all of his variations.

Bone Shaper due to the range and sheer damage that I think even Imp's Mimicry damage buff gets a bit jealous at, at times.

Necro if you wanna force your opponent in for sheer pressure and agitation. What really hurts Necro compared to the other two, and no I'm not asking for buffs, he's viable. Wound Cowboy just showed us this, but what hurts that variation is that he actually doesn't do too well against true zoners, but rather characters like Liu Kang in Dragon's Fire with low fireball, air fireball, standing fireball etc... Because Flick does more damage and it's a mid with no meter unlike Bone Shaper's Dark Beam. This is fine, because now we have three variations at least worth learning, that ultimately just give you different ways to incorporate him and his 50/50 mixups if not more with MB sparks on block. @RM Jonnitti showed me that maybe you shouldn't even wait for them to be pushed back all the way, do it right away on the first one to allow you a B3, a grab, a F4... All variations can do this!

My view? Don't just be a Bone Shaper, an Impostor... Learn them all. Learn them all because you never know what you need against a character or a player if we're talking setplay and you know what they can do. Maybe they struggle against flick more than say, ATP or Dark Beam +8 on hit restands.

Just my two cents!

What's funny about that is I asked a friend what variation they were learning, with a character and he said, "I don't learn variations, I learn characters". So now I learn my characters...for the most part anyway.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

What's funny about that is I asked a friend what variation they were learning, with a character and he said, "I don't learn variations, I learn characters". So now I learn my characters...for the most part anyway.

This is exactly what you should do. For awhile, yes, Bone Shaper and Imp were really the only variations worth playing to a degree. Now? Why not learn all three? Even Necro beats some higher tier characters and there's always the chance you can outplay your opponent by knowing what they struggle against.

 

[RM slacked]

This is exactly what you should do. For awhile, yes, Bone Shaper and Imp were really the only variations worth playing to a degree. Now? Why not learn all three? Even Necro beats some higher tier characters and there's always the chance you can outplay your opponent by knowing what they struggle against.

That's what the first week was for me, I main impostor but I'll pull out any of them in certain matchups.

 

[Skylight1]

Takeda and Sonya are his worst matchups, or it might just be me.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Takeda and Sonya are his worst matchups, or it might just be me.

Takeda isn't as bad as you might perceive, you just gotta know how to handle his Kunai pressure which, does take a little bit of time. Me and @EMPEROR PRYCE played a few days ago before I got caught into CEO and I was playing Necro and holding my own (Didn't come close to really winning the set but that wasn't what it was about), while we both kinda learned what we could do to each other. So it's not truly all that bad. You just gotta armor through sometimes with EX Shoulder if you see a gap and watch for his teleports and block accordingly. Spacing is key as well. I think Bone Shaper would be better against him to be honest.

Sonya is a tough one, but you just might have to do Hell Blast to hit her out of the sky if she does a divekick on you. She kinda has crap wakeups, so if anything once you knock her down she becomes a bit more fair, though you gotta watch for her parries if against Special Ops.

As well as that X-Ray.

 

[Skylight1]

Takeda isn't as bad as you might perceive, you just gotta know how to handle his Kunai pressure which, does take a little bit of time. Me and @EMPEROR PRYCE played a few days ago before I got caught into CEO and I was playing Necro and holding my own (Didn't come close to really winning the set but that wasn't what it was about), while we both kinda learned what we could do to each other. So it's not truly all that bad. You just gotta armor through sometimes with EX Shoulder if you see a gap and watch for his teleports and block accordingly. Spacing is key as well. I think Bone Shaper would be better against him to be honest.

Sonya is a tough one, but you just might have to do Hell Blast to hit her out of the sky if she does a divekick on you. She kinda has crap wakeups, so if anything once you knock her down she becomes a bit more fair, though you gotta watch for her parries if against Special Ops.

As well as that X-Ray.

I've always used Necromancer against Takeda and found great success using his Summoned Fiend and a timed foot crush (DB1). Only if I had PSN, would I be able to showcase everything

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I've always used Necromancer against Takeda and found great success using his Summoned Fiend and a timed foot crush (DB1). Only if I had PSN, would I be able to showcase everything

Just remember, with Summoned Fiend? They CAN backdash it.

 

[Helter Skelter]

I not feeling guilty for using this character. I've used him since the day the game came out and have cried about him and been so pissed off but stuck in there. Also, I always used BoneShaper over Impostor because having a safe string was just too important for me as a player.

I still have changes to the character that I would love but I'm extremely happy with the way NRS improved him. They looked outside the box as opposed to just upping his damage on moves and making Impostor broken.

 

[Rude]

So I'm still fairly new to Shinnok. Can anyone explain to me what happened in D.R.'s match with Hellsparks?

Was that some kind of glitch?

 

[Juggs]

So I'm still fairly new to Shinnok. Can anyone explain to me what happened in D.R.'s match with Hellsparks?

Was that some kind of glitch?

The top of hell sparks has no hit box, so if you're at the right height it will whiff. You can also walk through them with some characters, lol.

 

[Rude]

The top of hell sparks has no hit box, so if you're at the right height it will whiff. You can also walk through them with some characters, lol.

That's silly.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

So I'm still fairly new to Shinnok. Can anyone explain to me what happened in D.R.'s match with Hellsparks?

Was that some kind of glitch?

The first spark only goes as high as Shinnok's neck or so. Doesn't cover some high jump arc characters.