Opinion on the what the current tiers look like

[funkdoc]

Man I just really cannot understand this whole Lui Kang is bad thing. I just can't see it at all outside of Dualist.

the big thing i hear that makes me think that could be right is that he's - on block with all of his run cancel strings. if true that's a pretty damn huge hole for an alleged rushdown character.

but zephyrus needs to watch more of the kung laos making top 8 everywhere if they think you can't win on pressure & chip damage. what the whole "OMG 50/50" argument misses is that throws are *really* fucking good in this game, and pressure string/throw is a 50/50 of a different sort. throws do more damage than in SF4, are like 10x harder to break, and give you much better followups than in MK9 since meterless wakeups aren't really a thing anymore. that is what makes the pure rushdown gameplan work, i think.

 

[WidowPuppy]

@GGA pimpimjim Are you doing a detailed analysis of the A tier like you have with S+ and S? Just wondering your opinion on the tools those characters have, that placed them in A Tier.

Good list BTW.

 

[Genei Jin]

Kung Lao also has an ex-spin which leads to 30+% combos on wakeup. He also has an hat spin that creates a lot of combo options. He also has amazing pressure and a teleport. Only thing Liu Kang shares with Lao, is the pressure. Liu Kang has good pressure. But that's it.

And no I don't want an overhead starter. I want his 113 string to hit mid mid OH. That's all I want and it'd be enough to boost him to mid tiers. Because as it is now the 11 part of the string whiff on crouching opponents.

Before you talk shit about me maybe inform yourself about what I've wrote about the character.

I've said several times on this site that all I want for Liu is that change. He needs nothing more.

Beside Lao may not have a low starter, but he has an overhead one which is infinitely better than a low one. And his f+23 string hits low on the second hit and is comboable.

Imagine if Liu's 22 string still hit OH and was comboable? How much that would boost the character? And it isn't much different that Lao's f+23.

Learn the character's strenghts and weaknesses before you talk. You look stupid otherwise.

before you talk, learn how to play the fuckin game. i frequent the liu kang boards and i'm aware of what you wrote about the character: absolute garbage.

lastly, i know his strengths and weaknesses and people aren't up playing liu kang here, you're just a dumbass that can't see past his weaknesses.

 

[haketh]

the big thing i hear that makes me think that could be right is that he's - on block with all of his run cancel strings. if true that's a pretty damn huge hole for an alleged rushdown character.

but zephyrus needs to watch more of the kung laos making top 8 everywhere if they think you can't win on pressure & chip damage. what the whole "OMG 50/50" argument misses is that throws are *really* fucking good in this game, and pressure string/throw is a 50/50 of a different sort. throws do more damage than in SF4, are like 10x harder to break, and give you much better followups than in MK9 since meterless wakeups aren't really a thing anymore. that is what makes the pure rushdown gameplan work, i think.

Yeah the throw thing is important, having relevant lows but overheads is better due to how the games throw system works & people arent taking enough advantage of that.

 

[Alright RyRy]

I feel like PPJ made this thread to laugh with NRS while they are at work.

@GGA pimpimjim is just sitting back with Paulo laughing.

 

[Tweedy]

before you talk, learn how to play the fuckin game. i frequent the liu kang boards and i'm aware of what you wrote about the character: absolute garbage.

lastly, i know his strengths and weaknesses and people aren't up playing liu kang here, you're just a dumbass that can't see past his weaknesses.

 

[ZigZag]

Shinnock being a B Tier is a clear lack of good Shinnock rep.
People need to wake up

 

[Zephyrus]

the big thing i hear that makes me think that could be right is that he's - on block with all of his run cancel strings. if true that's a pretty damn huge hole for an alleged rushdown character.

but zephyrus needs to watch more of the kung laos making top 8 everywhere if they think you can't win on pressure & chip damage. what the whole "OMG 50/50" argument misses is that throws are *really* fucking good in this game, and pressure string/throw is a 50/50 of a different sort. throws do more damage than in SF4, are like 10x harder to break, and give you much better followups than in MK9 since meterless wakeups aren't really a thing anymore. that is what makes the pure rushdown gameplan work, i think.

I don't need to watch anything since Lao's chip damage is a lot stronger than Liu's. Plus Lao builds a lot more meter than Liu which can make him plus on block several times.
Not to mention, unlike Lao, Liu Kang has nothing on wakeup that leads to a lot of damage... or as an anti-air that leads to a lot of damage.
Pressure. That's all Liu Kang has and it can only get him so far before he's touched 3 times and dies by pretty much 100% of the cast

 

[Zephyrus]

before you talk, learn how to play the fuckin game. i frequent the liu kang boards and i'm aware of what you wrote about the character: absolute garbage.

lastly, i know his strengths and weaknesses and people aren't up playing liu kang here, you're just a dumbass that can't see past his weaknesses.

You're so aware you started talking like I wanted an OH starter.

You're a clown. A joke. And a pretty sad one.

I can't see past his weaknesses? I just mentioned his strenghts several times in the last posts. And none of them outweight his weaknesses.

He doesn't have 50/50s.
He doesn't have a good wakeup option that leads to combos.
He doesn't have good anti-airs.

What exactly, makes this character good?
Pretty much all you can do with this character, others can do it too and better and have even more options than he does.

But keep throwing insults at me. Intelligence hasn't been seen in a single one of your posts, so in order to get my attention you resort to insults.

You =

 

[IrishMantis]

oh look, a tournament player placed liu kang in bottom 3. And he has over 30 likes... wonder where these were when people were laughing at me for saying Liu Kang was bottom 5.

I'd trade Kung Lao with Kung Jin and drop Reptile a few pegs. Reptile isn't that good... Shinnok is stronger than Reptile.

In fairness he never said it was in order.

This is why the Letter coded tiers exist to stop the whole top 5 and bottom 5 talk. their could be 8 chars worth top 5 and 3 chars worth bottom 5 but obviously that wouldn't work and technically doesn't make sense so that's why the Letter coded metric works better and indicates that those chats are all as good as each other

Not saying Kang is not shit he could be the worst in the game just pointing out that observation and the reason for a the Letter metric over the the top and bottom 5 metric.
Even though Brady himself referenced top 10 himself lol

 

[Zephyrus]

In fairness he never said it was in order.

This is why the Letter coded tiers exist to stop the whole top 5 and bottom 5 talk. their could be 8 chars worth top 5 and 3 chars worth bottom 5 but obviously that wouldn't work and technically doesn't make sense so that's why the Letter coded metric works better and indicates that those chats are all as good as each other

Not saying Kang is not shit he could be the worst in the game just pointing out that observation and the reason for a the Letter metric over the the top and bottom 5 metric.
Even though Brady himself referenced top 10 himself lol

well, considering how the other tiers have the characters in order, I'll assume B tier is too.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Nope.
He is bottom 5 and in desperate need of buffs.
I even made a list.

Lol k. I guess we're going to let BANE happen again.

 

[errormacro7]

I can't wait for the next salt report, I CAN'T wait.

 

[Doombawkz]

Lol k. I guess we're going to let BANE happen again.

Don't blame me... Blame yourselves >:]

 

[Genei Jin]

You're so aware you started talking like I wanted an OH starter.

You're a clown. A joke. And a pretty sad one.

I can't see past his weaknesses? I just mentioned his strenghts several times in the last posts. And none of them outweight his weaknesses.

He doesn't have 50/50s.
He doesn't have a good wakeup option that leads to combos.
He doesn't have good anti-airs.

What exactly, makes this character good?
Pretty much all you can do with this character, others can do it too and better and have even more options than he does.

But keep throwing insults at me. Intelligence hasn't been seen in a single one of your posts, so in order to get my attention you resort to insults.

You =

the irony here is amazing.

you're here calling me a clown when you're the one laughing like an clown. as for insults, whos the one that has to revert to pictures for insults?

why would he need combo follow ups when his wake up moves are safe on block? but if you must, he can ex bicycle kick into follow up with 2 meters that leads to a combo.

now go remain ignorant.

 

[VenomX-90]

Here comes the BS

 

[Zephyrus]

the irony here is amazing.

you're here calling me a clown when you're the one laughing like an clown. as for insults, whos the one that has to revert to pictures for insults?

why would he need combo follow ups when his wake up moves are safe on block? but if you must, he can ex bicycle kick into follow up with 2 meters that leads to a combo.

now go remain ignorant.

oh shit 2 meters to lead into a combo on wakeup. Amazing. Top tier stuff.

And I'm calling you a clown because that's what you are. Your first post quoting me had you insulting me... for no reason whatsoever.
I laughed at the idea that Liu Kang is in A tier. You then insulted me.

And why would he need combo follow ups on wake ups? I dunno. Maybe to place him higher in tiers. It's only everyone in the top tiers that have that tool.

But Liu Kang doesn't need tools. Atleast according to you. All he needs is the fireball cancel. Let's not mention that everyone else that has a cancel also has better tools at everything he does but hey. Maybe I do need to learn how to play. Need to find those hidden inputs that have everything he lacks right now.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

@GGA pimpimjim Are you doing a detailed analysis of the A tier like you have with S+ and S? Just wondering your opinion on the tools those characters have, that placed them in A Tier.

Good list BTW.

This. I want to hear where everyone stands and where they may struggle.

 

[Wetdoba]

Don't blame me... Blame yourselves >:]

If they want to dig their own grave again I'm certainly not gonna stop them

 

[STRYKIE]

the big thing i hear that makes me think that could be right is that he's - on block with all of his run cancel strings. if true that's a pretty damn huge hole for an alleged rushdown character.

but zephyrus needs to watch more of the kung laos making top 8 everywhere if they think you can't win on pressure & chip damage. what the whole "OMG 50/50" argument misses is that throws are *really* fucking good in this game, and pressure string/throw is a 50/50 of a different sort. throws do more damage than in SF4, are like 10x harder to break, and give you much better followups than in MK9 since meterless wakeups aren't really a thing anymore. that is what makes the pure rushdown gameplan work, i think.

Whoever told you that is selling you a major bill man. Plenty of his strings are + on block when run cancelled. 3 of which give you a true block string. Heck, F213 is plus on block even when FB DASH cancelled or done into metamorphosis change in Dualist.

The real problem is that Liu's strings are very hitbox specific and takes a huge chunk out of what he can entertain with the run cancel pressure against lower hitbox characters. Any attempts to bring this to NRS' attention keeps falling flat on it's face since the jobber Liu players who can't accept MK9 Liu isn't coming back keep trying to sneak in luxury buffs between proposed fix threads.

 

[Genei Jin]

oh shit 2 meters to lead into a combo on wakeup. Amazing. Top tier stuff.

And I'm calling you a clown because that's what you are. Your first post quoting me had you insulting me... for no reason whatsoever.
I laughed at the idea that Liu Kang is in A tier. You then insulted me.

And why would he need combo follow ups on wake ups? I dunno. Maybe to place him higher in tiers. It's only everyone in the top tiers that have that tool.

But Liu Kang doesn't need tools. Atleast according to you. All he needs is the fireball cancel. Let's not mention that everyone else that has a cancel also has better tools at everything he does but hey. Maybe I do need to learn how to play. Need to find those hidden inputs that have everything he lacks right now.

the pot calling the kettle black.

i'm glad you feel insulted. perhaps you'll think twice before laughing at my idea of liu kangs placement. we could have a civil discussion but you chose to laugh like a clown instead and contributed nothing.

its evident you don't know shit about liu kang or this game. the fact that you suggest making 113 hit mid mid overhead is ridiculous enough to show when every characters 1 and 2 starter hits high.

 

[TKB]

WHEN CAN YOU GET BACK ON AND STOP HAVING A LYFE!?!?!?&%&$%@?!@@@#$?@!!?!?

I've been playing this weekend a bit bro. Let me know when you want games

 

[PPJ]

Started from the bottom...... now we still at the bottom

C TIER

Goro: It's possible that Prince of Shokan may be greater than bottom 2 "C" tier material, but I do feel he is lacking enough to possibly be the second worst in the game. His lack of mobility is his biggest crutch. F+4 being made an overhead is huge; before he gained that, I feel he was worse than Kitana. Biggest strengths he has are fairly good pressure, as he has alot of 0 to +2 blockstrings, as well as above average combo damage in all three variants. It's hard to not pick Kuatan Warrior over the other variants because the ground pound is a huge tool in many matchups as a fullscreen check. The Kuatan b,f+2 "Corp Charge" is kinda redundant and booty as a footsie/armor tool as it is a high, but it an be used as a nice combo ender. Tigrar Fury might have potential in flamethrower blockstrings, and the low flame could be useful in matchups where he doesn't get zoned out heavily. Dragon Fangs is lacking but he does have that d/b+2 low which is like +6 on block which is unusual. The Dragon Fangs EX d,b+2 special also scales a bit less than EX punchwalk, 2,1,2 is a decent chip/spacing string, and his command grab does a bit more raw damage so this variation isn't entirely outclassed.
Kuatan Warrior = Tigrar Fury > Dragon Fangs

Kitana: Poor princess sorta feels like a stripped down version of MK9 Kitana which already would not work in this game engine. Her positive traits are that she has good meterless damage off of air fan and her BnB combo starters, and she is good at blowing up sloppy, impatient play. She is crippled by terrible frame data and a terrible 50/50 compared to the rest of the cast. Royal Storm lift is actually pretty good as a footsie tool. The reflect is disappointing as it doesn't activate fast enough to be used on reaction. Assassin's "niche" isn't as useful to use it over her other variants. The parry has slow startup and is weak. The fan sharpen is very difficult to activate safely. EX assassin dash, however, is fairly useful. Mournful trades in her meterless + metered damage in the other variants for aimable mid zoning and safe blockstrings with shadow kick. The glaives only deal 5% so there's really no reason to be that scared of them. It also hurts that the air glaive is abysmal.
Royal Storm > Mournful > Assassin

 

[@MylesWright_]

No, Frost was actually really good when the game came out. She suffered from a dodgy ruleset (allowing counterpicking of stages) and the fact the rooftop was just so overwhelmingly in favour of power characters. Day 1 KF could do legit 100% combos with 2 bars. Up until she lost trait cancels she was undisputable top 5

Just let her die. More damage and a 50/50 off a blockstring starting with a high did nothing and would do nothing even if implemented again

 

[Zephyrus]

the pot calling the kettle black.

i'm glad you feel insulted. perhaps you'll think twice before laughing at my idea of liu kangs placement. we could have a civil discussion but you chose to laugh like a clown instead and contributed nothing.

its evident you don't know shit about liu kang or this game. the fact that you suggest making 113 hit mid mid overhead is ridiculous enough to show when every characters 1 and 2 starter hits high.

so? pratically everyone's fireball hit high too yet cybernetic kano's hit mid.
Since when does universal moves is a good idea of balance?

But there's no point talking to you. I'm only getting increasingly bored at talking to you when you can't show a single glimpse of an actual working brain.

So good day to you and welcome to my ignore list.