Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Video/Tutorial - Grandmaster Ice Clone does not function right part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
ZeZe

ZeZe

The smart stuff!
Levaranoia

Levaranoia

War God
I noticed this shit day 1, thought it was total bullshit then...still thinks it's total bullshit now and I don't even use sub anymore.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
ZeZe said:
As it stands there are two discussions going on here, this is why this thread is messed up:

1. There is discussion about what (technically) causes ice klone to behave that way.

2. And there is discussion about whether it's ok or not that klone behaves that way. And this is the one I'm interested in.

Game mechanics, as I understand, makes it dependable on Raiden's proximity to the clone if he'll get frozen or not. But I'm not able to predict if he will jump during Sub's F4,d2~ice klone (then Raiden will be close enough to get frozen during fly), or not (then Raiden will be able to go through klone). If this is due to mechanics, it has to be modified, unless you'll support Sub mains with digital ruler so that they can measure with their keen senses Ice klone's proximity from opponent.
Click to expand...
I guess this is my fault. I'm not trying to argue why this is happening just as a reasoning for the second one. If you label it as just Clone misbehaving then yeah fix it. But when you say everything is working exactly as it is designed then that area gets a little fuzzy, no? Also they want a change that will make clone harder to go through which is a buff anyway you look at it. So i also may be arguing a slightly different point there too. My apologies if i caused any confusion or unnecessary posts.

My argument to this is: If clone is behaving exactly as intended and Sub Zero can still play his game in most matchups besides doing the move at neutral against Raiden. Is that such a bad thing?
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
cambros22 said:
@buyacushun
take a look at shotguninsanity video
"https://account.xbox.com/en-us/game...ity&scid=03a80100-9ff3-46ea-be76-e00e7fe465df
His entire hand is going through the ice klone, how is this not broken?"

This is kindof silly
Click to expand...
Does it look silly? Yes i agree. That does not mean it isn't fine the way it is.
Does sub zero need to do EX Clone to get from F/T d1 mash? That is a honest question as i don't know.
If he does and the ferra/torr player decides to try and inch in and d1 Sub, does he have an answer? Also a honest question.

My whole point is: Give me multiple situations where this clone thing is making it so Sub gets completely shut down as if is clone was useless and i'll be all for fixing it. If this is really only a problem against Raiden at neutral than i don't see a problem currently. If the matchup evolves to where Raiden is dominating Sub then maybe just maybe a change is indeed needed. I say maybe because you can't make changes based on one matchup.

All i'm asking for is actual evidence this affecting much more. Jacqui got fixed cause her shit would make near unplayable in today's standards. She couldn't get reliable combos on most of the cast.
 
Mr Aquaman

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
Premium Supporter
most characters have normals/specials that can reach beyond ice clone without hitting the moves hurtbox, seems normal to me. Complain about hurt and hitboxes before anything imo. But it adds more depth to the SZ mu with characters. Rather than fight the wall of china with mixup and lock down.
 
TheIrishFGCguy

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
Mr Aqua said:
most characters have normals/specials that can reach beyond ice clone without hitting the moves hurtbox, seems normal to me. Complain about hurt and hitboxes before anything imo. But it adds more depth to the SZ mu with characters. Rather than fight the wall of china with mixup and lock down.
Click to expand...
Did you watch the videos in the OP? And that link from xbox.com?

https://account.xbox.com/en-us/game...ity&scid=03a80100-9ff3-46ea-be76-e00e7fe465df

This is okay to you...?
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
ZeZe said:
No it isn't:

There's also Scorpion's teleport issue reported in the other thread.
Click to expand...
Forgot about that. Looked at it again and he is literally standing in the clone. That showcases the same issue i showed in my video. Overlap SZ hurtbox with the clone Hitbox and sub zero gets touched. You're telling me you want to be able to stand in the clone? If it stops spear, tele, and normals than that would be broken. Show me someone in a fighter that has a full body stun move, that negates projectiles AND that they can place and fight in/out/all around it. I highly doubt such a overbearing move exists.

EDIT: Wanted to add a question to my latest post. IF there was a character with a standing 3 that looked like a basic front kick. Stretches his leg out all the way and it obviously looks like a nice space controlling footsie mid. Now if the hitbox extended a bit past the foot and hit you a little area in front of it, would you cry nerf the moment you saw it? Or see if it leads to that character having a nice spacing game needed for his gameplan?
 
Last edited:
Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
buyacushun said:
Forgot about that. Looked at it again and he is literally standing in the clone. That showcases the same issue i showed in my video. Overlap SZ hurtbox with the clone Hitbox and sub zero gets touched. You're telling me you want to be able to stand in the clone? If it stops spear, tele, and normals than that would be broken. Show me someone in a fighter that has a full body stun move, that negates projectiles AND that they can place and fight in/out/all around it. I highly doubt such a overbearing move exists.
Click to expand...
How about Sub in every other game ever. Also we used to be able to do it in the air. It's what makes him unique.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Nate said:
How about Sub in every other game ever. Also we used to be able to do it in the air. It's what makes him unique.
Click to expand...
Once again. Talking about how a character was in past games doesn't contribute anything to the discussion besides nostalgia. Many characters change from game to game. If he is usable in this game than i don't see what he used to be able to do helping.

EDIT: I'm still looking for any answers to my questions that will help the sub zero case. You can complain that you want it changed for whatever reason but it has to be an actually good reason. Not just "I want it to work this way."
 
Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
buyacushun said:
Once again. Talking about how a character was in past games doesn't contribute anything to the discussion besides nostalgia. Many characters change from game to game. If he is usable in this game than i don't see what he used to be able to do helping.

EDIT: I'm still looking for any answers to my questions that will help the sub zero case. You can complain that you want it changed for whatever reason but it has to be an actually good reason. Not just "I want it to work this way."
Click to expand...
Hey, I'm not calling for anything, and I'm not even saying "this is how he was so this is how he should be" You simply said name another character that can do etc etc. Well Sub Zero in every other game could. And seeing as how those are different games, then they count as different characters. You can't sit here and tell me sub zero from Mk2 is the same character as sub zero from mk9. So my point is valid. Don't go crying about the fact that the clone is "too good" because if that was the case, I'm sure it wouldn't have functioned the way it did for like 10 games. Again, I think you just took me out of context, you said to name a character that could do that, and I did.
 
james1926

james1926

Noob
Actually is quite likely that the clone works as intended. Perhaps they made it to work like this to be not so dominant.
 
darthbrooks

darthbrooks

Noob
buyacushun said:
EDIT: Wanted to add a question to my latest post. IF there was a character with a standing 3 that looked like a basic front kick. Stretches his leg out all the way and it obviously looks like a nice space controlling footsie mid. Now if the hitbox extended a bit past the foot and hit you a little area in front of it, would you cry nerf the moment you saw it? Or see if it leads to that character having a nice spacing game needed for his gameplan?
Click to expand...
If someone could poke "a bit", "a little" etc. into the clone without getting frozen, sure, that would be comparable to your example. Also, what you describe is in every fighting game ever since the dawn of time. FTs arm going clean through the clone is something else entirely. It's nonsense.
 
Reactions: RVB
learis1

learis1

Guardian Cadet
So basically, you want clone to have an increased freeze area on it so that it will outreach past Raiden's hitbox to his hurtbox on his superman special.

Do you have any idea how gamechanging it will be to increase the freeze area on clone? How many new strategies and setups it could open up, how much more powerful and inescapable it could make clone to do so?

You guys are completely clueless and obsessed with clone buffs. The better way to fix this would just be to nerf Raiden's hitbox or increase his hurt box on superman so that his hurtbox touches clone before the hitbox connects with SZ whose behind the clone.

You guys are really stupid, that's what this thread ultimately boils down to and why there's so much moaning and confusion on this thread.
 
RM_NINfan101

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
NRS needs a community manager like ComboFiend from Capcom games. There are too many issues in this game for Paulo to answer to, so to have a guy that will actually listen and read, acknowledge they read said thing, and try to get a reply from the devs would be great at this point.

I'll say it again: Klone's nerf may of came with unintended consequences. Maybe they'll get fixed. for Sub mains I hope it does. But I wouldn't ignore the hitbox/hurtbox discussion either. Every time I see that Superman shit I chuckle. So bad...

Seems like there's gonna be more to discuss for NRS's next game than how bad the netcode was. If I were you I'd start the lobbying now. :DOGE
 
RVB

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
learis1 said:
So basically, you want clone to have an increased freeze area on it so that it will outreach past Raiden's hitbox to his hurtbox on his superman special.

Do you have any idea how gamechanging it will be to increase the freeze area on clone? How many new strategies and setups it could open up, how much more powerful and inescapable it could make clone to do so?

You guys are completely clueless and obsessed with clone buffs. The better way to fix this would just be to nerf Raiden's hitbox on superman so that his hurtbox touches clone before the hitbox connects with SZ whose behind the clone.

You guys are really stupid, that's what this thread ultimately boils down to and why there's so much moaning and confusion on this thread.
Click to expand...
Name anyone here that has proposed the things YOU said ! NAME THEM!!!
WE DO NOT WANT BUFFS WE WANT THE KLONE TO WORK PROPERLY!
For the klone to work properly IT NEEDS TO FREEZE ON CONTACT REGARDLESS OF SUB ZERO SITTING IN THE KLONE, NEAR THE KLONE, BLOCKING OR OTHERWISE.
Many SZ players have stated in numerous posts that we do do care how this is achieved as long as it gets fixed!
Do you you comprehend all of that or do I need to spell it out for you?

EDIT @TheIrishFGCguy I wish I did the same thing as you mate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.