What are the most annoying variations to play against?

[Wigy]

I wouldn't say he has complete air control but his j3 air to air is very good. There's other characters that can contend in the air to air game. I don't think fbc being easy is a great reason to call the character braindead as well. If he could just control the neutral game risk free I'd agree with you but by those standards I think a lot of things in this game can be considered braindead.

As for sub in grandmaster, he does have a general goal. Move the oppenent to the corner and keep them there but reads and etc come into play big time, especially in certain match ups. If it was as easy as going by a flowchart I'd think we would see a lot more successful sub zeros. Again though we can all make the argument that a lot of characters want to put you into certain situations where they choose between a few options. I always looked at a flowchart as more of a player style than a character design.

I don't think sub is top 5 this is maybe why he isn't performing but he is completely flowchart, he has to make half the reads most of the cast do. In the corner his 50/50s are safe since if you try punish you get caught in the clone.
Scorpion gets about a bar and 12% chip at the end of every combo, and a 50/50 from F2 and B3string which are both safe, one leading to a HKD and the other to a 12ish percent string or he can just go for a grab. Considering how easy the cancel is..thats fucking stupid. Not to mention 40% 1 bar combos.

They are both designed as starter characters, however they are both really good for how easy they are to play.

Also both are not great matchups for all my characters.

 

[llabslb]

I Dont hate the clone it doesn't really bother me to be honest I like slowing down the pace of mkx its a nice change sometimes. Sub zero just gives me a hard time and it mostly due to online I can never punish slide right online and even with minimal effort I feel like my life is gone lol its definitely more of a me problem tho not a sub zero problem

I main GM Sub (don't hate me lol) and I find Kano's really difficult because I tend to get zoned out well by them and the ice clone isn't really that much of a help or an obstacle for the opponent but once I manage to get close I body them with Subs great low/overhead game, from their it'll be CORNER TIME and I'm sure you know what happens next.

Basically, just zone the GM's out

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't think sub is top 5 this is maybe why he isn't performing but he is completely flowchart, he has to make half the reads most of the cast do. In the corner his 50/50s are safe since if you try punish you get caught in the clone.
Scorpion gets about a bar and 12% chip at the end of every combo, and a 50/50 from F2 and B3string which are both safe, one leading to a HKD and the other to a 12ish percent string or he can just go for a grab. Considering how easy the cancel is..thats fucking stupid. Not to mention 40% 1 bar combos.

They are both designed as starter characters, however they are both really good for how easy they are to play.

Also both are not great matchups for all my characters.

I will agree that they're both very good and give a lot of characters a hard time. Against other top 10 characters things don't seem as easy though. I really don't think any of the fbc stuff is very hard at all tbh but that's all relative to the player. I would say that raidens fbc combo links are tighter than anyone else's though.

I do have to mention that there's a ton of ways to punish sub in the game even with a clone out. All of its character specific but any sub player needs to be aware of those options.

 

[Baconlord]

kung lao
cassie
scorpion
I swear to god it is impossible to stuff there wakeups with f1 online

 

[llabslb]

currently im struggling with hellfire scorpion, i dont know what to do. ermac vs scorpion is like ermac vs kabal in mk9. i'm thinking of starting using block breaker...
if anyone can give me tips about this MU im would be really greatful.

So true, Hellfire is basically the Kabal of this game and Ermacs pokes suck so you can't really flip a coin and hope to land a poke to get out of his pressure.

 

[esc1]

Scorpion's hell fire and inferno are both very annoying to fight.

Yea when there is a touch of lag its annoying as hell...
See what I did there..

 

[Kanalratte]

characters who very benefit from lag:

1) scorpion inferno (that safe teleport, vortex all day)
2) mileena any variation (almost all specials safe)
3) liu kang any variation (his combos have like 0 recovery)

 

[Yoaks]

I guess people forget how to block when fighting Mileena.

 

[Mirjitsu]

I hate Scorpion and Ermac with a passion. Any competent Scorpion online bodies my Georgia connection with that teleport shit. There are no combos against them with Liu Kang, only B1s. B1s everywhere.

 

[DDustiNN]

Cripes this gets me, people use them in the worst situations. 99 second X-Rays to stay competitive!

edit: Every variation has something that's annoying, that's fighting games.

X-rays are especially annoying when they happen in the first round, and my opponent is only missing like a third of their health... I'm just caught off guard like wtf??

 

[iMileena]

Lately for me its been that MOS variation for ermac , like you get hit only once , & get 40% or higher damage, played a guy with horrible techniques & footsies but oh he sure spam that unblockable slam & soul balls :| makes ermac players VERY annoying

 

[Wigy]

Lately for me its been that MOS variation for ermac , like you get hit only once , & get 40% or higher damage, played a guy with horrible techniques & footsies but oh he sure spam that unblockable slam & soul balls :| makes ermac players VERY annoying

That slams a low and if u play mileena you can telepunish the soul ball and levi-slam easily

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

2. Sub-Zero (Grandmaster)

 

[I GOT HANDS]

In the corner his 50/50s are safe since if you try punish you get caught in the clone.

This is not the case at all. If you connect a hit, the clone disappears, you have literally been posting in the thread about this, if you give an example of some characters that can't punish a blocked B2 or B33 with a clone placed at the sensible position, I might be inclined to change my perspective on this, I can't think of many off the top of my head

They are both designed as starter characters, however they are both really good for how easy they are to play.

While their normals and strings might be fairly straightforward and easy to execute I've played about 7 different characters, and Sub Zero is one of the hardest ones to play from my pool, I won't bother commenting on any that I don't play, but I imagine this would hold true most of the time. Compared to say Sonya, whose strength is running in and forcing her incredible mix-up, and only needs to know the the same easy to execute Midscreen combo for either opener, and an extremely similar one for corner and for EX zipties, you can literally be playing this character extremely optimally after just a few hours of practicing. Sub Zero on the other hand is extremely positionining dependant, everything Midscreen is a run cancel (different combos for each mix up) needing tiny frame links for wall combo hitconfirming being needed for safety on just about everything except B2 and 11 (both of which are just "unsafe") and this is just execution stuff. Throw into the mix other things that make the character harder, the fact that he is a low damage character, 11-Iceball being extremely important tool but extremely unsafe, unhitconfirmable, and extremely dependant on knowing the ins and outs of every other character and what you can successfully punish with it. Meter awareness is so important or your Klone just becomes a "punish me" button against a ton of characters during any practical use for it other than a projectile war, and knowing how to make Klone useful to begin with is a skill in itself, baiting people into throwing normals at a clone, and taking fast reactions and good positioning judgement to catch jump ins, making a clone useful is only as easy as your opponent.

And Scorpion is a very adaptable character for new players to find their style with I agree, but easy no way, his execution can be pretty crazy at highest level.

I don't think it's fair to call either of these 2 "easy characters for getting results" in a game with Sonya, Goro, Jason.

They might have a lot of buttons for casual play, like Teleport and Klone are really good when you are playing with zero competitive knowledge and don't even know your moves properly, but for anyone looking to actually play the game seriously, I wouldn't call either of them great starter characters for easy results.

Just my opinion. I love Subby for the challenge and extra elements he adds to gameplay, and there are definitely other characters who change the game in their own way, which is why for my secondary's I've stuck to simpler characters who don't take neither the execution or comfort ability that I feel SZ does to compete

 

[Eh SnOwY]

Bojutsu... NJP for days online and GG

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

Scorpion players for the most part are brain dead online. It's rare to come across a good one.


Full auto Jackie is fun to play against because I just counted with Sub Zero and slide under their gun shot. Most of them don't know how to deal with pressure so once they're in the corner it's game over.

 

[Wigy]

This is not the case at all. If you connect a hit, the clone disappears, you have literally been posting in the thread about this, if you give an example of some characters that can't punish a blocked B2 or B33 with a clone placed at the sensible position, I might be inclined to change my perspective on this, I can't think of many off the top of my head


While their normals and strings might be fairly straightforward and easy to execute I've played about 7 different characters, and Sub Zero is one of the hardest ones to play from my pool, I won't bother commenting on any that I don't play, but I imagine this would hold true most of the time. Compared to say Sonya, whose strength is running in and forcing her incredible mix-up, and only needs to know the the same easy to execute Midscreen combo for either opener, and an extremely similar one for corner and for EX zipties, you can literally be playing this character extremely optimally after just a few hours of practicing. Sub Zero on the other hand is extremely positionining dependant, everything Midscreen is a run cancel (different combos for each mix up) needing tiny frame links for wall combo hitconfirming being needed for safety on just about everything except B2 and 11 (both of which are just "unsafe") and this is just execution stuff. Throw into the mix other things that make the character harder, the fact that he is a low damage character, 11-Iceball being extremely important tool but extremely unsafe, unhitconfirmable, and extremely dependant on knowing the ins and outs of every other character and what you can successfully punish with it. Meter awareness is so important or your Klone just becomes a "punish me" button against a ton of characters during any practical use for it other than a projectile war, and knowing how to make Klone useful to begin with is a skill in itself, baiting people into throwing normals at a clone, and taking fast reactions and good positioning judgement to catch jump ins, making a clone useful is only as easy as your opponent.

And Scorpion is a very adaptable character for new players to find their style with I agree, but easy no way, his execution can be pretty crazy at highest level.

I don't think it's fair to call either of these 2 "easy characters for getting results" in a game with Sonya, Goro, Jason.

They might have a lot of buttons for casual play, like Teleport and Klone are really good when you are playing with zero competitive knowledge and don't even know your moves properly, but for anyone looking to actually play the game seriously, I wouldn't call either of them great starter characters for easy results.

Just my opinion. I love Subby for the challenge and extra elements he adds to gameplay, and there are definitely other characters who change the game in their own way, which is why for my secondary's I've stuck to simpler characters who don't take neither the execution or comfort ability that I feel SZ does to compete

Sonya is also pretty flowchart, but i've watched brady play a few times, comparing that to cdjr's tanya or tyrants jax even sonic fox's erron, he's incredibly flowchart looking. How is iceball not hit confirmable...? Thats down to your execution.

I will forever disagree with you but oh well.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

11-Iceball is impossible to hit confirm it happens super fast



While he might LOOK flowchart compared to something like Erron Black, I feel quite the opposite. Remember watching people make reads and land combos is very different to what is going through your head as you play, in SZ's case you start to realise how deep it is once you get past entry level and start getting comfortable. Using Clone well depends strongly on learning your opponent, and playing him into it as well. Positioning is super relevant on this character and I have trouble finding a similar experience. Haven't properly tried every character just yet, but there is a couple that can be ruled out pretty easily, and I think only a couple bring similar elements of complexity to my gameplay, buff characters being up there too IMO

 

[Wigy]

11-Iceball is impossible to hit confirm it happens super fast



While he might LOOK flowchart compared to something like Erron Black, I feel quite the opposite. Remember watching people make reads and land combos is very different to what is going through your head as you play, in SZ's case you start to realise how deep it is once you get past entry level and start getting comfortable. Using Clone well depends strongly on learning your opponent, and playing him into it as well. Positioning is super relevant on this character and I have trouble finding a similar experience. Haven't properly tried every character just yet, but there is a couple that can be ruled out pretty easily, and I think only a couple bring similar elements of complexity to my gameplay, buff characters being up there too IMO

TBH, when i've seen sub its a case of. Put up clone/throw clone/iceball/run in for 50/50/run in for grab. Once clone is down they do blockstring or d4 into clone and rinse repeat.

I will never agree with you based on what i've seen, so your words are falling on deaf ears.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

TBH, when i've seen sub its a case of. Put up clone/throw clone/iceball/run in for 50/50/run in for grab. Once clone is down they do blockstring or d4 into clone and rinse repeat.

I will never agree with you based on what i've seen, so your words are falling on deaf ears.

That's fine, I'm not talking about Skillfloor where clone is often used as a crutch, I'm talking about skillcap, and playing the character properly is far from one of the easier and I really enjoy the playstyle challenge, which I haven't found in many other characters

I gave a bunch of reasoning to support this earlier, but as you said you seem to have made up your mind on it so I'll just let it go, just wanted to add my opinion to your statement to further discussion

 

[Wigy]

That's fine, I'm not talking about Skillfloor where clone is often used as a crutch, I'm talking about skillcap, and playing the character properly is far from one of the easier and I really enjoy the playstyle challenge, which I haven't found in many other characters

I gave a bunch of reasoning to support this earlier, but as you said you seem to have made up your mind on it so I'll just let it go, just wanted to add my opinion to your statement to further discussion

Well this opinion is half from me watching tom brady and reo who are some of the best players in the world. I'm usually impressed by high level stuff but its was painful to watch.

Anyways, agree to disagree.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

TB might have been the best SZ in MK9, but I don't know about in MKX. Rebelo looks very solid. You should watch his play if you want to see an adaptable SZ play and set/respond to the pace of the match.

Anyway, just sharing my opinion, you are free to disagree. Wasn't expecting a unanimous agreement to the statement that SZ is something other than easy to play anyway, this is still TYM after all

 

[iMileena]

That slams a low and if u play mileena you can telepunish the soul ball and levi-slam easily

I didnt know the slam was a low lol but the soul ball i easily can ball roll under neath

 

[Tweedy]

Since I mainly play online it'd have to be characters like Tempest Kung Lao and Thunder God Raiden. Raiden's F12 and Kung Lao's, I think it's B321 and then the hat shield move or whatever? I'm not on my xbox so I can't check lol, but yeah, those combos practically become block infinites with a little lag.

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

- grandmaster clone spammers
- quan chi summoner
- Kung jin bojitsu
- kunglao in general and more in Tempest
- Tanya in general