Jump Attacks vs AA in MKX (part 1)

[Shark Tank]

its a good AA and you can do it on reaction

It'll get beat by good jump ins on reactions usually. Not trying to be prickly here but kotal's aa being a solid aa is a bill and I don't know where it's coming from.

 

[Shrewskis]

I play liu and it sucks not being able to aa consistently and using a bar for like 10% damage is annoying too. However ive found back dashing helps alot but the real problem is crossups. Anyone without an armored launcher is fucked.

 

[PetulantWaste]

This is not true. Killer Instinct and many other fighting games have anti-airs out-prioritize jump ins. That's why they're called anti-airs.

But tell me. Why is it OK for a jump in attack to completely beat out a anti-air even though they both connect, but for a anti-air to do that, it's somehow bad?

Anti Air trades with Air in Anti Air FAVOR. Jump In attacks don't win they do 3% and D2 does 14%. There's also a bunch of other options. I really don't think that Anti Airs need SIGNIFICANT buffs. I think changing the active frames would be a good idea, i think adjusting some hitboxes would be good, but as it is it is not impossible to defend against jump happy opponents if you use your head. All in all this game rewards aggressiveness. You can't just sit and crouch and expect to win by uppercutting all your opponents attempts at an offense. You need to make BOLD reads to hit with an uppercut against some jump ins and that's how it should be.

 

[Rude]

@Rude yes getting hit and taking a combo is a mistake to me. Some characters are very good corner carry I will not argue that in this chat. But the original poster was referring to dealing with jump ins. At the start of a match in neutral, jumping in is a bad idea unless you have a move to make them fear anti airing (dive kick). If you make a previous mistake of either backing yourself into a corner or getting pushed to one that is your fault. A coach is not going to tell a boxer "You got cornered and taking too many hits, let me talk to the ref and see if we can make it so the other guy can't do hooks now."

Harold, everyone gets hit and combo'd. Everyone. From PL to dribuirut.

Flawlesses aren't typically common and the reward for one combo is a knock down into a guessing game. Jumping is apart of all that.

If I'm standing at jump distance and i read a jump, shouldn't i be rewarded for trying to anti air? The problem is that not only are options not universal like in previous games, but these jump attacks clearly have phantom hitboxes.

So even if you think you're outside the range of a jump attack, the hitbox extends past the actual visual of the character's limb.

That's a problem, man.

 

[Rude]

To give an example:
Kano's Up Ball.

It's a six frame special that is designed to anti air. However, the priority on the move is so bad that unless you do it preemptively, it will actually get stuffed by jump attacks.

 

[itz My Call]

To give an example:
Kano's Up Ball.

It's a six frame special that is designed to anti air. However, the priority on the move is so bad that unless you do it preemptively, it will actually get stuffed by jump attacks.

Good thing his b1 anti airs into 30% then, huh

 

[Tony at Home]

Anti Air trades with Air in Anti Air FAVOR. Jump In attacks don't win they do 3% and D2 does 14%. There's also a bunch of other options. I really don't think that Anti Airs need SIGNIFICANT buffs. I think changing the active frames would be a good idea, i think adjusting some hitboxes would be good, but as it is it is not impossible to defend against jump happy opponents if you use your head. All in all this game rewards aggressiveness. You can't just sit and crouch and expect to win by uppercutting all your opponents attempts at an offense. You need to make BOLD reads to hit with an uppercut against some jump ins and that's how it should be.

In Killer Instinct, Anti-Airs unilaterally win. Anti airs anti-the-airs. You can jump, but jumping must be earned by getting your opponent to respect your footsies game.

As for "You need to make BOLD reads to hit an opponent with an uppercut against some jump ins"

Why is the need to make a bold-risky read put on on a high risk move that nets mediocre trade-damage?

Shouldn't the need to make a bold read be placed on the move that has a high reward? The status quo you are describing is one where anti-airs are high risk, low reward- and jump ins are high reward, low risk.

 

[Rude]

Good thing his b1 anti airs into 30% then, huh

Not in Cutthroat. Hang a lampshade if you want, but why shouldn't a special designed to anti air actually perform it's function?

 

[M.D.]

In Killer Instinct, Anti-Airs unilaterally win. Anti airs anti-the-airs. You can jump, but jumping must be earned by getting your opponent to respect your footsies game.

As for "You need to make BOLD reads to hit an opponent with an uppercut against some jump ins"

Why is the need to make a bold-risky read put on on a high risk move that nets mediocre trade-damage?

Shouldn't the need to make a bold read be placed on the move that has a high reward? The status quo you are describing is one where anti-airs are high risk, low reward- and jump ins are high reward, low risk.

Just quoting this again to make sure everyone gets how true it is.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Spacing IS the issue. You get "stuck" in a situation when you make mistakes. I am not saying players should be immune to making mistakes, but you cannot write that off as the games fault. If you are stuck in the corner with no stamina, you should be at a disadvantage. The player worked hard to put you there and force a break, I think they should be rewarded.



Refer to above. I will rarely have a perfect game of never being jumped on, but you can ask anyone I play that I make it as hard as possible to jump on me and punish as often as possible. Focus your game on the things you think are unfair instead of asking them to be changed, and you may not think they are as unfair.

Advantage age is one thing. A jump grants like 20 cast members a 50/50. It's a bit much for what's supposed to be a neutral break.

Spacing IS the issue. You get "stuck" in a situation when you make mistakes. I am not saying players should be immune to making mistakes, but you cannot write that off as the games fault. If you are stuck in the corner with no stamina, you should be at a disadvantage. The player worked hard to put you there and force a break, I think they should be rewarded.



Refer to above. I will rarely have a perfect game of never being jumped on, but you can ask anyone I play that I make it as hard as possible to jump on me and punish as often as possible. Focus your game on the things you think are unfair instead of asking them to be changed, and you may not think they are as unfair.

Why even have d2 in the game then? That's all I'm saying.

 

[itz My Call]

Not in Cutthroat. Hang a lampshade if you want, but why shouldn't a special designed to anti air actually perform it's function?

Not saying it shouldn't, but that character definitely has options. And extremely good ones. Not the character i would have picked for a no anti air example

 

[Shark Tank]

Not saying it shouldn't, but that character definitely has options. And extremely good ones. Not the character i would have picked for a no anti air example

I wish we lived in a world with more b1s

 

[Rude]

Not saying it shouldn't, but that character definitely has options. And extremely good ones. Not the character i would have picked for a no anti air example

Variation specific options.

It is for the purpose i was using it for.

Cutthroat's options are ass for AA. Up ball straight up doesn't work.

This is reality.

 

[PetulantWaste]

In Killer Instinct, Anti-Airs unilaterally win. Anti airs anti-the-airs. You can jump, but jumping must be earned by getting your opponent to respect your footsies game.

As for "You need to make BOLD reads to hit an opponent with an uppercut against some jump ins"

Why is the need to make a bold-risky read put on on a high risk move that nets mediocre trade-damage?

Shouldn't the need to make a bold read be placed on the move that has a high reward? The status quo you are describing is one where anti-airs are high risk, low reward- and jump ins are high reward, low risk.

It's not just the damage, d2 grants you a knock down which allows you to continue pressure or bait out attacks. It gives you advantage. I'll also stress, YET AGAIN, that d2 is not your only option. It is your FINAL option. The other options, trip guard, backdash, armor attack, etc... all lead to full combo punishes

 

[ciaran carrick]

You take a bigger risk AAing then you do jumping in

Risk reward in the game for AAers is messed up

It's the prime reason people hate characters like Scorpion with a passion.

Some characters JI kicks are practically Anti-AAs

 

[itz My Call]

Variation specific options.

It is for the purpose i was using it for.

Cutthroat's options are ass for AA. Up ball straight up doesn't work.

This is reality.

He has one of the better d2s in the game and his d4 low profiles a bunch of shit. Not to mention you can always air to air or save your meter for anti air.

Which is what i do if i play a character i think has ass anti air

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Riparroni in pepper mother fuckin ronis when you try to s1 someone's cross over after the 5th time they've done it and you get full comboed

 

[lm Tweakk]

I actually feel entirely opposite

Aa is too strong lol

I think you just broke my ankles with words

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

down, 2 noob tube all day.... lel

 

[Pterodactyl]

I play liu and it sucks not being able to aa consistently and using a bar for like 10% damage is annoying too. However ive found back dashing helps alot but the real problem is crossups. Anyone without an armored launcher is fucked.

Liu's d2 is awesome, what do you mean you can't AA consistently?

 

[jackempty0]

When something, which requires no meter, execution or stamina, has a grossly skewed risk reward and also bypasses the area of the game which requires most execution and reads.

How is that not terrible?

Because you are expecting something different than what the game is

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

the people with that long range JIP are so dumb

 

[Wigy]

Because you are expecting something different than what the game is

Enough with pointless asshole responses

 

[Tony at Home]

*Updated thread title to be less click-bait-y*

Still, F* jump ins <3

 

[Vilén]

This is a recurring theme in NRS games. Injustice was a fucking spacewalk and this isn't any better.

I had high hopes this would go the other way when I saw how floaty a lot of jumps are.

Didn't matter.