Jump Attacks vs AA in MKX (part 1)

[PetulantWaste]

I've kind of avoided doing this, but here we go, two specific changes that I think would make the system better.

1) D2's do not trade with Air attacks. When you hit someone with a d2, and they are in the air, the anti-air outprioritizes the air. Clean 14%. No trades.

2) Universal active-frame buff to D2's. Not startup, not more + on block, just more active frames. If the hitbox lingers out there a bit longer (even 2 extra frames would help) it will result in alot less stuffed D2's that are otherwise perfectly done.

This would absolutely kill jump in attacks. The people here complain about jump ins without exhausting all their options. Maybe Sonyas uppercut is weak. So WHAT she has leg grab, arc kick, parry, backdash, the list goes on. Don't wish for D2 to counter EVERYTHING

 

[Afro_physicist]

Tanya Jump 2 also uses her own face to hit grounded chars.

This and the strings that travel halfway screen to hit you are the most absurd things that are in his game.

Shh dont bring up her f2 or jump forward tele forward ji2, they'll know our full screen tech!

 

[kivatt]

Jacqui has to deal with jump ins by walking back and trip guarding, or pre-emptive db2. Her d2 is absolutely shocking. Whenever I get it I know it's an input error and I meant either df2 or db2. Against cross up jumps she has to make a read and dash forward. s1 should be a good anti-air,I just can't get it to work consistently.

I don't have this problem with Cassie because with her d2 and flip kick I can basically anti-air anything.

What's trip guarding?

 

[AK Harold]

Spacing isn't always the issue. Sometimes you're just stuck in a situation where your opponent gets a jump in. It happens. Ill try to trip guard as much as the next guy, but sometimes you don't get a choice, especially when stuck in the corner with no stamina after breaking. Then Sonya jumps in with a God like ji1 and its 50/50 town and there's little you can do about it.

Spacing IS the issue. You get "stuck" in a situation when you make mistakes. I am not saying players should be immune to making mistakes, but you cannot write that off as the games fault. If you are stuck in the corner with no stamina, you should be at a disadvantage. The player worked hard to put you there and force a break, I think they should be rewarded.

Show me footage of you playing where you are never in deep jump range

Refer to above. I will rarely have a perfect game of never being jumped on, but you can ask anyone I play that I make it as hard as possible to jump on me and punish as often as possible. Focus your game on the things you think are unfair instead of asking them to be changed, and you may not think they are as unfair.

 

[Tony at Home]

What's trip guarding?

When a character lands after jumping, they are unable to block for a certain amount of frames, though they are considered "on the ground". It generally is so you can get a full-combo punish as opposed to just a juggle punish when you successfuly bait a whiffed jump.

 

[Eldriken]

What's trip guarding?

Hitting someone during their landing frames after jumping, I believe. Your character can't do anything until those landing frames are done.

 

[Tony at Home]

This would absolutely kill jump in attacks. The people here complain about jump ins without exhausting all their options. Maybe Sonyas uppercut is weak. So WHAT she has leg grab, arc kick, parry, backdash, the list goes on. Don't wish for D2 to counter EVERYTHING

This is not true. Killer Instinct and many other fighting games have anti-airs out-prioritize jump ins. That's why they're called anti-airs.

But tell me. Why is it OK for a jump in attack to completely beat out a anti-air even though they both connect, but for a anti-air to do that, it's somehow bad?

 

[itz My Call]

It's not like those options are exactly guaranteed. I'm sorry, if I'm standing and Sonya's jip1 beats my fucking 7 frame d2 out even preemptively it's gonna piss me off. Even if I d4 to try to low profile it it's not always guaranteed because you have to time it and they could empty jump thus getting in anyway since trip guarding is rough. When I play War God Kotal I use d3 for my AA or EX Air Grab. I get that my characters have options, but I think MKX could still use a better AA meta and that's something that's my opinion and you're entitled to yours.

Air to air. Save your meter and anti air into 30%+. Run under and standing 1 into combo

If nothing worked, i could agree, but....

Figure out how you can not be in a position where your only option is d2.

Fighting games present you with situations that aren't always favorable. It's you job as a player to figure out the best solution to eithrr deal with it or avoid the situation entirely.

I can assure you the best solution is not to complain your way out of it.

 

[Tony at Home]

Focus your game on the things you think are unfair instead of asking them to be changed, and you may not think they are as unfair.

Why are you assuming I haven't focused on this already? Just look at the amount of research I did in my original post. I found 100% proof that jump ins have better active frames, better hitboxes, and some even have disjointed hitboxes that make proper anti-airs impossible.

 

[Tony at Home]

Figure out how you can not be in a position where your only option is d2.
.

Even in the arguments for the current status quo of jumping dominance, it's tid bits like these that I think exemplify the situation:

"Whatever you do, don't be in a situation where your only option is D2"

And Harold's "It's your fault, you need to space it so you don't have to d2 a jump and you just whiff punish all the time instead"

How the hell did we get to the point where an uppercut in Mortal Kombat is some make-shift last ditch yolo-effort to stop a jump in after every 'better' option has failed???

 

[AK Harold]

No it is using all your options to change their jump in timings. As stated in the post you need to use D2, trip guard, air to air, etc. Having a universal d2 beats all scenario is very limiting on game play. Especially when the input is 1 action. The focus of your research seemed to be on the jump in winning, as opposed to "here are all the options I have to deal with this jump in."

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Air to air. Save your meter and anti air into 30%+. Run under and standing 1 into combo

If nothing worked, i could agree, but....

Figure out how you can not be in a position where your only option is d2.

Fighting games present you with situations that aren't always favorable. It's you job as a player to figure out the best solution to eithrr deal with it or avoid the situation entirely.

I can assure you the best solution is not to complain your way out of it.

I can assure you that I really think you have zero idea and all you're doing is theory crafting. I have done njks as Shinnok and still have gotten beat by jump ins. You cannot tell me I'm complaining when this is a thing a lot of players want to see. I'm happy you have proven you can adapt to it, and I have too, but like I just said, I still think that meta is extremely boring and sucks.

 

[Temjiin]

My solution to fix this - scale uppercuts differently vs aerial opponents.

Just as you get less damage in a combo if you start it from an air- to air, uppercuts should increase damage vs airborne opponents.

I'd say 14% damage vs standing opponents, 20% vs anyone jumping.

Uppercuts are iconic moves and should have universal frames in my opinion. They used to dominate aerial opponents in the first games. Give uppercuts big damage vs jumpers.

 

[itz My Call]

I can assure you that I really think you have zero idea and all you're doing is theory crafting. I have done njks as Shinnok and still have gotten beat by jump ins. You cannot tell me I'm complaining when this is a thing a lot of players want to see. I'm happy you have proven you can adapt to it, and I have too, but like I just said, I still think that meta is extremely boring and sucks.

It's not theory craft. Lol wow.

Armored anti airs, stand 1, and air to airs absolutely work. Anyway I hope NRS solves all your problems. Heaven forbid you actually have to figure it out...

 

[Tony at Home]

No it is using all your options to change their jump in timings. As stated in the post you need to use D2, trip guard, air to air, etc. Having a universal d2 beats all scenario is very limiting on game play. Especially when the input is 1 action. The focus of your research seemed to be on the jump in winning, as opposed to "here are all the options I have to deal with this jump in."

Listen, I haven't a doubt that you actually can control space pretty well and make it hard to jump. My issue with that is along the lines of- when I play like that, everything I do is under the thought "If I do this, will I be vulnerable to a jump" or "if I move here, will I have to be in that risky d2 anti-air range?"

I know what you're talking about. Because I do that. But I don't feel it adds to the game to have the entire spacing meta revolve around making sure you are out of jump range.

 

[Tony at Home]

Anyway, I totally miss this dude:

What's the "TOASTEEEEY!" equivalent for d4-low-profile anti-airs?

"SLIIIIIGHTLY WAAAARMED!"

Just doesn't have the same ring to it....

;_;

 

[Eldriken]

This is going downhill already...

 

[Qwark28]

I 100% agree with the "space yourself well and trip guard/predict" argument.

But my point is that certain top tier characters have overwhelming hitbox/hurtboxes on their jump attacks and coincidentally it's the mid to low tiers who don't have the good anti airs.

 

[M.D.]

I can't believe some people are STILL trying to rub this under the rug hoping they can spam that idiotic jumpin priority shit.

It's like government auctions being rigged in plain sight and not giving a shit everyone knows what it's about.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

With slight online lag AA feels impossible

 

[InFlames]

No, you are not aaing with it, by the time you react with it you'll lose to most jump ins. I have tested it

its a good AA and you can do it on reaction

 

[Rude]

Spacing IS the issue. You get "stuck" in a situation when you make mistakes. I am not saying players should be immune to making mistakes, but you cannot write that off as the games fault. If you are stuck in the corner with no stamina, you should be at a disadvantage. The player worked hard to put you there and force a break, I think they should be rewarded.



Refer to above. I will rarely have a perfect game of never being jumped on, but you can ask anyone I play that I make it as hard as possible to jump on me and punish as often as possible. Focus your game on the things you think are unfair instead of asking them to be changed, and you may not think they are as unfair.

By mistakes do you mean getting caught in a single Raiden/Jax/Sub Zero, etc combo?

They can carry you to the corner from midscreen. It's simple to do in this game

 

[Tony at Home]

Be nice guys, if for no other reason I dont want to be "that guy" who makes threads just to get people angry at each other. One M2Dave is enough.

At the very least if hitboxes stay the way they are, the meta is just going to be like this and we'll have to move our playstyles towards that regardless.

I think @AK Harold has the right idea, as much as I'd rather just uppercut someones face off, I'll play the a spacing game that way if I have to.

 

[itz My Call]

If this thread was specifically about down 2 i could agree.

Anti air is more than d2

 

[AK Harold]

@Rude yes getting hit and taking a combo is a mistake to me. Some characters are very good corner carry I will not argue that in this chat. But the original poster was referring to dealing with jump ins. At the start of a match in neutral, jumping in is a bad idea unless you have a move to make them fear anti airing (dive kick). If you make a previous mistake of either backing yourself into a corner or getting pushed to one that is your fault. A coach is not going to tell a boxer "You got cornered and taking too many hits, let me talk to the ref and see if we can make it so the other guy can't do hooks now."