Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[I GOT HANDS]

Hey guys, just a niche bit of STRATEGY that I haven't seen mentioned or touched on yet.

If you happen to land a freeze at the start of the match, a good way to capitalize on it is to end the follow-up freeze punish combo with EX-Throw. This opens your opponent up to another 50/50, which if they guess wrong, will push them all the way to the corner before they've even had a chance to do anything. They can't Wake-Up out of the EX-Throw, they don't have meter for breaker yet, so this basically leaves the with one option, guess correctly on the 50/50 reset, or get left in the corner with ~45% health remaining, a clone directly in front of them, and a full health Sub-Zero staring them down. Meaning, it's likely gonna be your match.

You can obviously squeeze a bit more damage out of the clone freeze after 242, when I record I have to do it on the PC and wrestle with a piece of shit plugnplay controller, so I'm not going to bother trying for the purpose of this example.

Obviously this is still a 50/50 so nothing guaranteed, but if you get the first hit and turn it into freeze (which can happen a multitude of ways) then I think that spending that free meter bar on what is likely going to give you a very easy win if it pays off, is probably a good use of it. I'm not saying go out of your way to open like this, but when it happens organically, this is almost definitely the best follow up. This works for every variation, but I think it's especially nice way to get set up as GM. You can also obviously do this at any point in the match, but I think its especially punishing at the beginning when you still have an entire HP bar to work with, possibly a free Meter from first hit, and your opponent doesn't have meter to breaker out yet. These are situations that can easily come up over the course of a match however, so probably worth adding to the kit Just strategy, nothing super new combo wise. It's good to squeeze what we can out of punishes considering how low our damage output is in comparison to the rest of the cast, may as well make use of that excellent 50/50 !

 

[mrsz]

If we've established new BNB's and setups someone should update the first post. It's still the pre-patch info right? Just started playing the game again now that I have more free time so it'd be nice if I had an easy place to get all the info.

Also a couple questions, what's the go-to mid-screen combo off an air freeze from an iceball? I've been doing really basic ones and just kinda freestyling but I want to get into a habit of doing the more optimal ones now.

Second question is the basic gameplan seems to be get them to the corner, get a hard knockdown, set up clone and mix them up with b2, b33, and grab, correct? Well what are the major differences between the hard knockdown setups? I've seen people do nj.K, f12, 112, and also b33d4 as enders to set up clone. Are they interchangeable or do they lead to different spacings/timings?

My biggest issue in my matches seems to be when I get the corner people neutral jump out, and I whiff my string underneath them and they punish me on the way down. If I learn the proper timing on the hard knockdowns will they still be able to jump out or will my string basically be meaty and catch them?

@AniMoney

Unfortunately a combo off an opponent being frozen in the air (clone/ice ball) is low but we'll take any damage we can get.

At the most basic level you want to get your opponent in the corner and mix them up with those options that you mentioned. At a higher level you can also control the neutral game which a lot of players still have troubles doing but I'll leave that for another thread.

112 is inferior to F12 in the corner as the recovery frames are higher. I haven't seen B33->D4 so I can't comment on that. I'm more curious of Nj.K vs F12 as people seem to be using them interchangeably (damage might be different but I would have to check).

The basic level is to go straight for the mix ups. Instead, try waiting and see how comfortable or uncomfortable your opponent is in the corner. If you're losing to Nj.P, wait behind clone and punish them. Remember in the corner Sub is King as long as you don't play on auto-pilot.

 

[AniMoney]

@AniMoney

Unfortunately a combo off an opponent being frozen in the air (clone/ice ball) is low but we'll take any damage we can get.

At the most basic level you want to get your opponent in the corner and mix them up with those options that you mentioned. At a higher level you can also control the neutral game which a lot of players still have troubles doing but I'll leave that for another thread.

112 is inferior to F12 in the corner as the recovery frames are higher. I haven't seen B33->D4 so I can't comment on that. I'm more curious of Nj.K vs F12 as people seem to be using them interchangeably (damage might be different but I would have to check).

The basic level is to go straight for the mix ups. Instead, try waiting and see how comfortable or uncomfortable your opponent is in the corner. If you're losing to Nj.P, wait behind clone and punish them. Remember in the corner Sub is King as long as you don't play on auto-pilot.

I seem to have the basic midscreen air freeze combos down, they all do about the same damage wise. Is there a way to spend bar to get more damage?

Ok I'll drop 112 and stick with f12, that's the one I like the most anyways, it's pretty consistent for me so far. There were some b33d4 setups on the last page, using the spacing from it to get ice shatter combos for big damage. I tried the 4 different enders earlier today (nj.k, f12, 112, and b33d4) and they all seem to do the sameish damage towards the end of a combo, just 1% differences, I think the main concern is spacing and timing for the clone afterwards.

Good tip on the being patient, if I see my opponent neutral jumping I should be able to just iceball or slide them. Just gotta not panic as much haha

Also those ice shatter combos are ridiculous damage! I think if we can find a good flowchart to loop into them sub-zero will be able to kill super quickly. Unfortunately there was only b2 combos on the last page, is it possible to get the big damage off of low starter?

 

[KoldSpecter]

I seem to have the basic midscreen air freeze combos down, they all do about the same damage wise. Is there a way to spend bar to get more damage?

Ok I'll drop 112 and stick with f12, that's the one I like the most anyways, it's pretty consistent for me so far. There were some b33d4 setups on the last page, using the spacing from it to get ice shatter combos for big damage. I tried the 4 different enders earlier today (nj.k, f12, 112, and b33d4) and they all seem to do the sameish damage towards the end of a combo, just 1% differences, I think the main concern is spacing and timing for the clone afterwards.

Good tip on the being patient, if I see my opponent neutral jumping I should be able to just iceball or slide them. Just gotta not panic as much haha

Also those ice shatter combos are ridiculous damage! I think if we can find a good flowchart to loop into them sub-zero will be able to kill super quickly. Unfortunately there was only b2 combos on the last page, is it possible to get the big damage off of low starter?

Well, you can b33-iceball-backdash-jip-b2-242-f12 (28% damage), safe clone setup and make opponent to guess. If he's wrong, b2 and clone-shatter combo. With b33-cloneshatter you will have 24% damage. I don't see any other options here.

 

[STK]

@Odoyle combo is easier using 4 instead of 24 -> shatter clone and results in 52% damage.

ill have to mess with that. im been getting 49% with b2 b33 Shatter b12 clone njp jip b12 slide. also b33 shatter d1 d1 b12 clone njp jip b12 slide is 46%

 

[STK]

refresh me, whats the sweet spot for the clone to freeze in corner combos?

 

[Hype Dragon]

So basically when ppl uses fast EX armour moves, I can just Down+4 em and cancel to Ice clone and it will break their armour ex like sub zero EX slide?

 

[LaidbackOne]

So basically when ppl uses fast EX armour moves, I can just Down+4 em and cancel to Ice clone and it will break their armour ex like sub zero EX slide?

Im almost sure this won't work. D4 clone is unsafe so you will probably still get hit with their move before your clone comes out.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I can't help but think the Shatter corner combos are really impractical. I mean, I guess they are useful for the times when your opponent has no meter, and you have the clone set up right in front on them from a hard knock down anyway, and can just freely go in with the overhead and if you hit them in time the clone is up to shatter it. But in these situations, you've landed at least 1 combo to get them there (probably 2), your opponent is going to be on low health, and you have them in the corner with a clone in front of them and no meter regardless, which is a horrible place for anyone to be. It feels a bit just like a "win more" button. I guess impractical isn't the word for it, it works fine when it works, but just really niche in usefulness. Am I missing something here?

 

[zoofs]

I can't help but think the Shatter corner combos are really impractical. I mean, I guess they are useful for the times when your opponent has no meter, and you have the clone set up right in front on them from a hard knock down anyway, and can just freely go in with the overhead and if you hit them in time the clone is up to shatter it. But in these situations, you've landed at least 1 combo to get them there (probably 2), your opponent is going to be on low health, and you have them in the corner with a clone in front of them and no meter regardless, which is a horrible place for anyone to be. It feels a bit just like a "win more" button. I guess impractical isn't the word for it, it works fine when it works, but just really niche in usefulness. Am I missing something here?

well one thing you are missing is the fact that doing something into shatter is actually pretty safe on block, i.e. b33 shatter when the clone is mid to close. I do agree though that overall the shatter setups are pretty gimmicky and I guess if they didn't have any meter with 50% or so health left it would be a good way to clear out a round. I only attempt them because they look cool, lol.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Yeah, I realise that cancelling into Shatter is often very practical and a really a good idea if you have a clone behind you since it chips for like 5% and is only -10. But thats pretty different to these set ups I'm seeing, which while flashy, seem silly to shoot towards doing if playing seriously. But yeah I agree, I basically play GM to look cool as well it's gotta be the flashiest character in the game lol, when I play serious I use other variations

 

[Savage8-8]

Yeah, I realise that cancelling into Shatter is often very practical and a really a good idea if you have a clone behind you since it chips for like 5% and is only -10. But thats pretty different to these set ups I'm seeing, which while flashy, seem silly to shoot towards doing if playing seriously. But yeah I agree, I basically play GM to look cool as well it's gotta be the flashiest character in the game lol, when I play serious I use other variations

Did you see the 24 shatter combos?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Did you see the 24 shatter combos?

Yes, that's why I originally brought it up

 

[MYK]

Never saw an answer for it but I didn't go through all the pages but does anyone know what shatter is on block?

advantage? neutral? actually minus?

anyone know?

 

[Marvaz]

Not home at the moment and i heard there was a hotfix....please tell me no more sub zero nerfs...? Anyone know?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Never saw an answer for it but I didn't go through all the pages but does anyone know what shatter is on block?

advantage? neutral? actually minus?

anyone know?

My game says -10, PC version

 

[Durango]

Does anyone have combos listed for when an opponent is frozen, such as when jumping into your ice clone?

 

[zoofs]

Does anyone have combos listed for when an opponent is frozen, such as when jumping into your ice clone?

I typically do njp, jip, run, 123 slide or replace 123 with 1 f42 slide. I'm sure theres higher damage but yeah

 

[STK]

you can break an air throw even if you planed doing an ex version. And with you always going for a forward throw to get them to the corner it would be an once in awhile mix up. So question. Why can't you blow up Cassie's b124 or other block strings that are not a true block string up on block with ex ice klone but you can do it with ex slide? Both have armor and no ex slide isnt faster than ex klone.

 

[Savage8-8]

Yes, that's why I originally brought it up

The 24 shatter combos do not require you to be in front of the clone and they can be started off of a B2.
So these can be done for every safe clone setup. All you would need to do to set it up is land a B2.
So if you wanted to go for damage you could do this or go for another safe iceclone set up and make your opponent guess again.
That said the other shatter combos that require you to be in front of the clone are a little impractical

 

[Endeavor]

Not home at the moment and i heard there was a hotfix....please tell me no more sub zero nerfs...? Anyone know?

From what I read there were no nerfs

 

[I GOT HANDS]

The 24 shatter combos do not require you to be in front of the clone and they can be started off of a B2.
So these can be done for every safe clone setup. All you would need to do to set it up is land a B2.
So if you wanted to go for damage you could do this or go for another safe iceclone set up and make your opponent guess again.
That said the other shatter combos that require you to be in front of the clone are a little impractical

I corrected myself on the impractical, more like "niche". Assuming we are playing against a good opponent, I feel like most players are going to EX wake up something if you are standing in front of them with a clone out while they have meter, so at the very least you have to wait to check, and when I practiced, the clone is gone by the time you need to smash it if you don't immediately start the combo. If they have no meter, I guess its fine and gives a nice 8% on what else we can get for 1 meter in the corner, assuming you can get in with an overhead starter. But as I said, that's basically a winning situation for you to begin with, so it just feels like a "win more" button. Not a bad thing to know how to do, but even though it has such high damage it doesn't seem like an important thing to need to learn, or to try go for in games, ever

 

[Savage8-8]

I corrected myself on the impractical, more like "niche". Assuming we are playing against a good opponent, I feel like most players are going to EX wake up something if you are standing in front of them with a clone out while they have meter, so at the very least you have to wait to check, and when I practiced, the clone is gone by the time you need to smash it if you don't immediately start the combo. If they have no meter, I guess its fine and gives a nice 8% on what else we can get for 1 meter in the corner, assuming you can get in with an overhead starter. But as I said, that's basically a winning situation for you to begin with, so it just feels like a "win more" button. Not a bad thing to know how to do, but even though it has such high damage it doesn't seem like an important thing to need to learn, or to try go for in games, ever

Fair enough. I guess it would come down to preference. either way you have them in the corner and the clone in front in both situations. you could always bait the wakeup and punish to put them back in the same situation again.

 

[ZeZe]

Is it only me, or after seeing Tanya's gameplay I wished Sub had his air-klone back.

 

[STK]

i would be happy if a Frost alt for SZ comes with Tremor.