Tech - Jason Voorhees The Power of back 1 tight squeeze

[Kinetic Balding1]

Jason's best tick throw, b1 dbf2 is a safe tick throw set up against almost the whole cast.

After a blocked b1, if the opponent takes the grab, you take 12% into another hard knockdown into a guaranteed b1 dbf2.
If the opponent tries to neutral jump the command grab, Jason can either do a b2, d2, or air grab before the jump punch comes out.
If the opponent tries to jump back, Jason can do a back 2 or an air grab, and once again, they both hit before the opponent can get the jump punch out. Also, b2 is a launcher and he can confirm that b2 after they jump into 28% meter less into another b1 grab setup.
If they jump forward, Jason can again do d2 or b2.

List of characters Jason can b1 command grab after and be safe enough to block their armored move:
Takeda
Mileena
Erron Black
Kitana
Ermac
War God Kotal Khan
D'Vorah
Quan Chi

If the opponent try's to back dash, the back dash will get punished because of the minimal recovery frames of dbf2.
So really, there is not many options to completely get out of this other than when you use a character that is not listed above.

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

Some things to know:
Dbf2 hits all hit boxes and is unblockable

 

[lm Tweakk]

Some things to know:
Dbf2 hits all hit boxes and is unblockable

Smh why do you have to be on xbonE we can't play anymore </3

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Um...yeah it'd help if he could connect B1 on everyone who isn't ducking...

 

[Immortal Kombat]

Great..add this to the list of things that might as well be an infinite against takeda. Thank god no one plays this character. Can takeda not teleport out of this? What about Lasher wakeups? Wouldn't that get him out?

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

[QUOTE="xInfra Deadx, post: 1736707, member]Um...yeah it'd help if he could connect B1 on everyone who isn't ducking...[/QUOTE]
B1 only whiffs on Cassie and d'vorah.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

B1 only whiffs on Cassie and d'vorah.

...and Jacqui and Mileena and Liu Kang and anyone else with a normal or smaller hitbox, it just depends on when you hit them. If they are at the lowest point in their crouching animation or doing a low attack, the b1 will whiff.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

...and Jacqui and Mileena and Liu Kang and anyone else with a normal or smaller hitbox, it just depends on when you hit them. If they are at the lowest point in their crouching animation or doing a low attack, the b1 will whiff.

Refer to this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/possible-bug-on-b1-b12-b122.52024/

 

[Eldriken]

Just do b2 or d1 into dbf2. =P

 

[Metzos]

@Hidan

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

Great..add this to the list of things that might as well be an infinite against takeda. Thank god no one plays this character. Can takeda not teleport out of this? What about Lasher wakeups? Wouldn't that get him out?

Takeda can't teleport out of it without Jason recovering in time to block and punish it and Jason can block all of lasher armored reversals and punish them.

 

[PANDEMlC]

[QUOTE="xInfra Deadx, post: 1736707, member]Um...yeah it'd help if he could connect B1 on everyone who isn't ducking...

B1 only whiffs on Cassie and d'vorah.[/QUOTE]

WAY more than that unfortunately.

Also while tick grabs make tight squeeze much better it misses on a million different "throw immune" moves. Basically anything that lowers someones hitbox, or pushes a poke out while pushing the rest of the character back. Great thing about tick grabs and I've talked about it a lot in the Relentless thread is that it restricts what they can press so it actually makes what would otherwise be a mediocre command grab very solid. Like you've said. B1 tight squeeze is great, it's just a shame b1 whiffs on so many people. Which is why I go for b2 or d1 more often then b1.

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

Just do b2 or d1 into dbf2. =P

Good thing to do against cassie and d'vorah.

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

B1 only whiffs on Cassie and d'vorah.

WAY more than that unfortunately.

Also while tick grabs make tight squeeze much better it misses on a million different "throw immune" moves. Basically anything that lowers someones hitbox, or pushes a poke out while pushing the rest of the character back. Great thing about tick grabs and I've talked about it a lot in the Relentless thread is that it restricts what they can press so it actually makes what would otherwise be a mediocre command grab very solid. Like you've said. B1 tight squeeze is great, it's just a shame b1 whiffs on so many people. Which is why I go for b2 or d1 more often then b1.[/QUOTE]
The only reversals that can counter b1 dbf2 are fast armored moves.

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

Smh why do you have to be on xbonE we can't play anymore </3

It was either one or the other. I would've gotten a ps4 if I didn't have an Xb1 when it first came out.

 

[PANDEMlC]

WAY more than that unfortunately.

Also while tick grabs make tight squeeze much better it misses on a million different "throw immune" moves. Basically anything that lowers someones hitbox, or pushes a poke out while pushing the rest of the character back. Great thing about tick grabs and I've talked about it a lot in the Relentless thread is that it restricts what they can press so it actually makes what would otherwise be a mediocre command grab very solid. Like you've said. B1 tight squeeze is great, it's just a shame b1 whiffs on so many people. Which is why I go for b2 or d1 more often then b1.

The only reversals that can counter b1 dbf2 are fast armored moves.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware. Didn't say otherwise, was referring to tight squeeze on it's own and the positives of tick grabbing.

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

The only reversals that can counter b1 dbf2 are fast armored moves.

I'm aware. Didn't say otherwise, was referring to tight squeeze on it's own and the positives of tick grabbing.[/QUOTE]
Other than tick throws,I only use that grab to end my combos which guarantees a free b1 unless they wakeup.

 

[Hidan]

Good thread, good points, useful info. But, I need to warn you guys about one major thing that expands to almost everything Relentless and Unstoppable has.

LOW PROFILE SHUTS HIM DOWN

With that being said tick throws are a matter of:
1)hitbox of the poke
2)poke's cancel advantage
3)special's hitbox and priority(command throws in NRS games is a pain in the ass)
4)command throw recovery... nothing to say about, it's the best I've ever seen and I thank them for this.

So
B1/B2~DBF2 has all the requirements except 1.
If your opp has one down poke or safe move in general with low profile, he can abuse it all long because Jason has either long range pseudo mids & highs or close range slow mids.
If you connect the move though, b1 & b2 in this case you're fine I agree.

d1 into dbf2. =P

The problem here... cancel advantage. Whatever special Jason has can be stuffed.
Squeeze and sometimes choke too get counter poked. The other 2 are highs.
Even if you use armor after, the same down poke that frustrates your b1 to connect, will avoid any special and may crash dbf2 too

Solution: check with d1, but tick throw with d4 on a hit confirm or something.
Haven't checked, yet I believe its cancel is better (so their move won't come out in between) and d4 may not whiff on low profiles ;P

Other than that, cool that B1~DBF2 is so good

 

[KeyserSoze]

IMO, Jason's best tick throw is B2 tight squeeze because it is the only tick throw that hits mid AND connects on BOTH hit and block.

 

[PANDEMlC]

Good thread, good points, useful info. But, I need to warn you guys about one major thing that expands to almost everything Relentless and Unstoppable has.

LOW PROFILE SHUTS HIM DOWN

With that being said tick throws are a matter of:
1)hitbox of the poke
2)poke's cancel advantage
3)special's hitbox and priority(command throws in NRS games is a pain in the ass)
4)command throw recovery... nothing to say about, it's the best I've ever seen and I thank them for this.

So
B1/B2~DBF2 has all the requirements except 1.
If your opp has one down poke or safe move in general with low profile, he can abuse it all long because Jason has either long range pseudo mids & highs or close range slow mids.
If you connect the move though, b1 & b2 in this case you're fine I agree.

The problem here... cancel advantage. Whatever special Jason has can be stuffed.
Squeeze and sometimes choke too get counter poked. The other 2 are highs.
Even if you use armor after, the same down poke that frustrates your b1 to connect, will avoid any special and may crash dbf2 too

Solution: check with d1, but tick throw with d4 on a hit confirm or something.
Haven't checked, yet I believe its cancel is better (so their move won't come out in between) and d4 may not whiff on low profiles ;P

Other than that, cool that B1~DBF2 is so good

So you're saying d1 tight squeeze can be poked out of?

EDIT: You can duck out of the b1 tick grab, you can mash d3, b2, d4 all with sub and beat it out. Damn that sucks. B2 gets beat by normal slide, ice clone and d3. d1 gets beat out by d3, d4, slide, ice clone and b2. d4 only seems to lose to ice clone and a mashed d3. So yeah I guess d1 on hit into a d4 tick grab is your safest option. Again if they're respecting you and aren't jumping out and armoring these probably won't cause you any problems but the fact is they can. Tick grabs are already a risk in that 3 other options can guarantee an escape then you have to factor in the possibility of these things occurring too, rough shit man.

Seems like b2 would work after the d1 on hit too, since it's faster startup and if you are looking for them to actually block b2 tick grab is better since it can be blocked regardless of how they're standing and on hit you get a conversion unlike on d4. You can still armor out even if you hit them with the d1, you just time it at the last possible moment before Jason would connect b2 or d4. Good to know.

 

[Rip Torn]

B1~tight squeeze is really good, but the inputs are very difficult to execute. B1 also whiffs on crouch blocking Jacqui sometimes. Seems like it has to do with her breathing. She can also just walk backward after blocking B1 and tight squeeze will whiff and she is right there to punish. I don't think alot of people will be doing this though, unless you start abusing that particular tick throw.

 

[Hidan]

B1~tight squeeze is really good, but the inputs are very difficult to execute. B1 also whiffs on crouch blocking Jacqui sometimes. Seems like it has to do with her breathing. She can also just walk backward after blocking B1 and tight squeeze will whiff and she is right there to punish. I don't think alot of people will be doing this though, unless you start abusing that particular tick throw.

B1's hitbox inconsistency was what made me post in the first place, I prefer other normals for tick throws.

And yes the execution is... too much. I mean I bet we all have some trouble pulling b2~dbf2, well b1 is even faster (at least if you press 2 again you get the full string)

I think you were the guy that came out with the shortcut. DB2~F2 good stuff, unfortunately Unstoppable doesn't work for me. I use Relentless only. And I wish we could somehow turn off or delete the DB1 special, so we could use DB1~F2.
(plus I'm getting the stupid move from crouching block to b1 sometimes)

Jacqui does what? Ok thx, I don't feel bad for not being able to pull it off then

 

[Hidan]

So you're saying d1 tight squeeze can be poked out of?

EDIT: You can duck out of the b1 tick grab, you can mash d3, b2, d4 all with sub and beat it out. Damn that sucks. B2 gets beat by normal slide, ice clone and d3. d1 gets beat out by d3, d4, slide, ice clone and b2. d4 only seems to lose to ice clone and a mashed d3. So yeah I guess d1 on hit into a d4 tick grab is your safest option. Again if they're respecting you and aren't jumping out and armoring these probably won't cause you any problems but the fact is they can. Tick grabs are already a risk in that 3 other options can guarantee an escape then you have to factor in the possibility of these things occurring too, rough shit man.

Seems like b2 would work after the d1 on hit too, since it's faster startup and if you are looking for them to actually block b2 tick grab is better since it can be blocked regardless of how they're standing and on hit you get a conversion unlike on d4. You can still armor out even if you hit them with the d1, you just time it at the last possible moment before Jason would connect b2 or d4. Good to know.

Yes d1 ticks should be made with the dbf1 on an opponent who prefers to pressure than answering to your down poke with a down poke, dbf2 is too slow for that situation. The reason I'm saying this is because I was catching ppl with d1~df1 and then some started interrupt it with their d1. And if they can counter 15 frame special, they will counter 17 too.

Still B2 is good because the hitbox is better than D1 (you will catch jumpers with it and maybe avoid crossups as he moves slightly forward).
Ticks are rough sometimes yes, but not for Jason. There is reason why dbf2 is 17 frames slow, because the recovery is only 12 frames (similar structure to Bane's command grab). So, they can armor through (so do you and get hyped), but jump is an option you may as well punish or block.

 

[Hidan]

forgot to mention b2~dbf2 isn't for corners as on hit the throw whiffs on everyone, so use something else there

 

[Rip Torn]

B1's hitbox inconsistency was what made me post in the first place, I prefer other normals for tick throws.

And yes the execution is... too much. I mean I bet we all have some trouble pulling b2~dbf2, well b1 is even faster (at least if you press 2 again you get the full string)

I think you were the guy that came out with the shortcut. DB2~F2 good stuff, unfortunately Unstoppable doesn't work for me. I use Relentless only. And I wish we could somehow turn off or delete the DB1 special, so we could use DB1~F2.
(plus I'm getting the stupid move from crouching block to b1 sometimes)

Jacqui does what? Ok thx, I don't feel bad for not being able to pull it off then

I play Relentless too, so I feel your pain. Remember, after a Lake Mist he has cool down on that special, so you can do teleport (non-ex) into db2f2 and you wont get the second Lake Mist. Also, I learned something crucial from watching @Khaotic_Armor at EGP last week. After a ji2 or ji1, you can buffer a b1 and then you have way more time to press dbf2, so you can get the tick throw any time you make them block a jip. It's works like 95% of the time because they are jailed into blocking high after the jump in so none of that b1 whiffing stuff. It's sort of a game changer for Relentless/Unstoppable.

Edit: jip b2 dbf2 is also much easier due to the buffer window.