Guide - Stunt Double Please delete this thread, as I don't know how & I've made a new and much better one

[NY_Jailhouse]

btw the fact that he can do that doesnt really prevent him from not being good

 

[Monox1de]

does not prevent him from not being good....double negative??? what you mean is doesn't prevent him from being good. Unless i am missing something of course.

I think stunt double would be really good if this tech was actually tech and not a bug. Now stunt double is only good instead of really good.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

lol you are correct. I think he is still bad

i dont think being able to cancel mimic into a mimic move is a bug, what makes you think that?

 

[Monox1de]

lol you are correct. I think he is still bad

i dont think being able to cancel mimic into a mimic move is a bug, what makes you think that?

I'm sorry i misunderstood you.. I thought you were referring to being able to use the first clone multiple times. canceling mimic into mimic move is supposed to be there.

 

[Wrath0594]

Well, on the bright side mimic cancelling has proven to be just as amazing in practice as it looked and the crap I found is too gimmicky to have real use anyway. My Johnny Cage is looking pretty scary. Actually played a lot of others in mirror matches too lately. Word is spreading. Envious as fuck of A-List fireballs though.
n___n

 

[Biologic]

Awesome man, I believe whole-heartedly that Stunt Double is the way to go, and the more I mess with it, the more I learn, the more I think JC is actually pretty solid, anyway here's the first part of my JC guide, if it does well I may actually redo it in better quality, more parts coming soon as well as updates to the thread that will further alter everyones opinion of Johnny

 

[Wrath0594]

Really awesome of you to make this. Also feeling Johnny is really solid now that I've gotten used to him and all his tech. Mimic cancelling sets up some really nice mind games and it's always get to get more pressure out of raw f3's. Been playing a lot of other Johnny's lately randomly in netplay and been picking up neat tricks like going into ex nutpunch after f24 to stop interupts.

Like that one dude said though, idk about using those fireballs on anyone that isn't a scrub though, since it's so easy to duck the second one on reaction.

 

[xGunShow]

An Online Set using Stunt Double:

 

[Wrath0594]

Oh btw, found out the 2nd mimic is pretty consistent for 113 db1 at midscreen... Prolly won't work on females :'(

 

[Biologic]

An Online Set using Stunt Double:

Finally, yes, thank you, Stunt Double pressure is a real thing

 

[Frosted 57]

The more I've used this the less impressed I am. If your opponent knows to look for this it is a guaranteed punish. Since whether you cancel the activation or not it is punishable by many Ex moves and some non. Not to mention some characters can just jump and avoid the BF4. At the bottom is a pretty obvious list of easy reactionary punishes. This is most of my testing, feel free to check it yourselves.

Here is the more bothersome stuff with characters that can punish without meter.
Meterless Full Combo
Mileena all variations BD4

Meterless Punishes
Shinnok all variations BF3
Scorpion all variations DB3
Goro Kuatan Warrior BF2

with these strings mimic cancel BF4 can catch neutral jumps, so these are the best strings to use as far as frames go.
114 is the most advantageous
333
f24
f3
b34

It also appears that some of the cast can just jump out of the way of the BF4. If the opponent crouch blocks the last hit of the string SOME of these can no longer jump out. Also 114 was the only string to prevent SOME of these characters from jumping.
mileena jump back
kung lao jump back dive kick combo & jump forward
Jax jump back
Sonya jump back & forward
Kenshi jump back
Scorpion jump back
Sub-Zero jump back
Jacqui Briggs jump back
Johnny cage jump back
Jason Jump forward

If the opponent jumps however you can get a mind game and mimic cancel into DB1 instead which catches every BACKWARDS jump and you can follow up after. However if they jump forward, if you do mimic cancel BF4 you can uppercut them, after a mimic cancel db1 you will need to block.

----------------
Full Combo Punish
Kung Lao all variations ExDF1
Jax all variations ExBF2D
Kenshi Kenjutsu ExDB4 & ExDF1 Balanced ExDB1 Possessed ExDB1
Scorpion all Variations ExDB3
Sub-Zero Grandmaster & Cryomancer ExDB1
Johnny Cage all variations ExBD3
Mileena all variations ExBD4
Takeda all variations ExBF2 Lasher ExDB2
Cassie Cage all variations ExDB2
Kung Jin Bojutsu ExDB3
Shinnok Bone Shaper ExDF2
Kano all variations ExBF3(cancel) Cybernetic ExDB1(easy)
Erron Black Outlaw ExDB4
Liu Kang Dragon's Fire ExFBF4(meter burn)
Kotal Kahn War God ExDB1
Reptile all variations ExDB2 & ExBF2
Ferra/Torr Lackey ExDB2
Raiden all variations ExDB3 & ExDF2
Goro all variations ExBF4 Dragon Fangs ExDB2

Armored Special no combo
Sonya all variations ExDB4 or ExBF4(SideSwitch)
Kitana all variations ExBF3 Mournful ExDB3 Assassin ExDB3
Quan Chi Warlock ExDB2
Sub-zero Unbreakable ExBF4
Jacqui Briggs all variations ExBF4
Kung Jin Shaolin & Ancestral ExDB4
Erron Black all variations ExBF4
Liu Kang all variations ExFBF4
Ermac Mystic ExBF2
Kotal Kahn Sun God ExDB2
Ferra/Torr all variations ExDBF1
D'Vorah all variations ExDB4
Jason all variations ExDF1 Relentless & Unstoppable ExDBF1 Slasher ExBF2

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

The more I've used this the less impressed I am. If your opponent knows to look for this it is a guaranteed punish.

sorry if i am misreading, but what is this pertaining to? is it activation straight into bf4? i just want to be clear and make sure im reading your hard work correctly

 

[Frosted 57]

sorry if i am misreading, but what is this pertaining to? is it activation straight into bf4? i just want to be clear and make sure im reading your hard work correctly

Its ending a string in the mimic activation then canceling the activation into BF4.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Its ending a string in the mimic activation then canceling the activation into BF4.

oh got ya thanks.

yeah i was trying that stuff out for a bit but people caught on. i found just activating in places they don't expect in the neutral (or trading with something like a fireball on purpose) or just doing it after 114 the best.

114 x mimic on its own seems safe? last night i set SZ to ex slide on wakeup and did f24 d1 f4 d1 12 12 12 114 xx mimic and always had time to block. if they jumped, im assuming i would have time to react with db1 if backwards and d2 if forwards

(could be 100% wrong on this im shit at training mode grinding heh)

 

[Prinz]

Alright, here's some more apparently PC specific tech for everyone.

Like I said, you can even wait for the ex db1 clone to hit the ground to get a full length shadow kick from him. We full noob saibot now, I guess...

This is so awesome! It should stay this way definitely.

 

[Frosted 57]

Yes, on hit it is fairly easy to set up mimics by sacrificing the nutpunch reset. It is however not always worth that. All of what I was testing was setting it up on blockstrings, which I don't believe is as viable as it seemed. I do still like this, it has it's place. I just don't think it's as good as it seemed. My post is just information about what you risk doing it on block, because while most opponents will not understand or be aware of this you can't rely on their ignorance.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Yes, on hit it is fairly easy to set up mimics by sacrificing the nutpunch reset. It is however not always worth that. All of what I was testing was setting it up on blockstrings, which I don't believe is as viable as it seemed. I do still like this, it has it's place. I just don't think it's as good as it seemed. My post is just information about what you risk doing it on block, because while most opponents will not understand or be aware of this you can't rely on their ignorance.

agreed!

i think it will be super important with stunt double to really mixup your approaches and use of the clones. they do so much that you can condition your opponent to fear all kinds of scenarios when they are activated, making for easy conditioning

 

[CrimsonShadow]

does not prevent him from not being good....double negative??? what you mean is doesn't prevent him from being good. Unless i am missing something of course.

"Doesn't prevent him from being bad" is what he was looking for

 

[Rude]

Wait, what is wrong with A List?

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

yeah i don't think anything is wrong with a list, both variations have their place for certain MUs and there shouldn't be a concentration of which is better, but rather the analyzing of specific scenarios and MUs that let us know where one is more useful then other

that being said SD is defo currently under utilized by higher skilled players and would be good to have more exposure; the reasons a list is great are more immediately apparent then SD

 

[RWDY Nori]

A-List/Stunt Double are by and far his best variations. Fisticuffs is great for people online who don't know how to beat his string or get out of it.

A-List/SD are both great for pressure, you just have to use them different. A-list is cancels, SD is threatening clones (and I'm honestly extremely biased with SD, I feel way more comfortable and feel he's more flexible with zoning as well).

@Movieland KerrHolden the original post really details how strong SD is, and it's one of the reasons I'm continuing to use him. EX Rising Shadow on block is stupid good

 

[Biologic]

The more I've used this the less impressed I am. If your opponent knows to look for this it is a guaranteed punish. Since whether you cancel the activation or not it is punishable by many Ex moves and some non. Not to mention some characters can just jump and avoid the BF4. At the bottom is a pretty obvious list of easy reactionary punishes. This is most of my testing, feel free to check it yourselves.

Here is the more bothersome stuff with characters that can punish without meter.
Meterless Full Combo
Mileena all variations BD4

Meterless Punishes
Shinnok all variations BF3
Scorpion all variations DB3
Goro Kuatan Warrior BF2

with these strings mimic cancel BF4 can catch neutral jumps, so these are the best strings to use as far as frames go.
114 is the most advantageous
333
f24
f3
b34

It also appears that some of the cast can just jump out of the way of the BF4. If the opponent crouch blocks the last hit of the string SOME of these can no longer jump out. Also 114 was the only string to prevent SOME of these characters from jumping.
mileena jump back
kung lao jump back dive kick combo & jump forward
Jax jump back
Sonya jump back & forward
Kenshi jump back
Scorpion jump back
Sub-Zero jump back
Jacqui Briggs jump back
Johnny cage jump back
Jason Jump forward

If the opponent jumps however you can get a mind game and mimic cancel into DB1 instead which catches every BACKWARDS jump and you can follow up after. However if they jump forward, if you do mimic cancel BF4 you can uppercut them, after a mimic cancel db1 you will need to block.

----------------
Full Combo Punish
Kung Lao all variations ExDF1
Jax all variations ExBF2D
Kenshi Kenjutsu ExDB4 & ExDF1 Balanced ExDB1 Possessed ExDB1
Scorpion all Variations ExDB3
Sub-Zero Grandmaster & Cryomancer ExDB1
Johnny Cage all variations ExBD3
Mileena all variations ExBD4
Takeda all variations ExBF2 Lasher ExDB2
Cassie Cage all variations ExDB2
Kung Jin Bojutsu ExDB3
Shinnok Bone Shaper ExDF2
Kano all variations ExBF3(cancel) Cybernetic ExDB1(easy)
Erron Black Outlaw ExDB4
Liu Kang Dragon's Fire ExFBF4(meter burn)
Kotal Kahn War God ExDB1
Reptile all variations ExDB2 & ExBF2
Ferra/Torr Lackey ExDB2
Raiden all variations ExDB3 & ExDF2
Goro all variations ExBF4 Dragon Fangs ExDB2

Armored Special no combo
Sonya all variations ExDB4 or ExBF4(SideSwitch)
Kitana all variations ExBF3 Mournful ExDB3 Assassin ExDB3
Quan Chi Warlock ExDB2
Sub-zero Unbreakable ExBF4
Jacqui Briggs all variations ExBF4
Kung Jin Shaolin & Ancestral ExDB4
Erron Black all variations ExBF4
Liu Kang all variations ExFBF4
Ermac Mystic ExBF2
Kotal Kahn Sun God ExDB2
Ferra/Torr all variations ExDBF1
D'Vorah all variations ExDB4
Jason all variations ExDF1 Relentless & Unstoppable ExDBF1 Slasher ExBF2

Interrupt able or not, mimic cancels are still viable, you can cancel early out of a 1,1 or cancel from a d4 poke, you have a lot of mix up options for when you're going to pop the mimic cancel, and once mimic is activated, the pressure is on; strings directly into mimic shadow kick cannot be punished & are + on block, the mimic cancel itself isn't what's plus, it's the landing of the shadow kick, mimic cancels just allows more of an opportunity to activate mimics!

Excellent post btw

 

[Wrath0594]

Btw guys, even tho the patch brought us up to console level- the shadow kick into extra clone moves stuff I found is still in. Best application I can see is probably shadow kick into exdb1 for full screen run in, but other than that its pretty limited anyway. Also like a 2 frame window to even use it

 

[Wrath0594]

Interrupt able or not, mimic cancels are still viable, you can cancel early out of a 1,1 or cancel from a d4 poke, you have a lot of mix up options for when you're going to pop the mimic cancel, and once mimic is activated, the pressure is on; strings directly into mimic shadow kick cannot be punished & are + on block, the mimic cancel itself isn't what's plus, it's the landing of the shadow kick, mimic cancels just allows more of an opportunity to activate mimics!

Excellent post btw

Yeah, the strength is in the unpredictability and quickness of the move, but I definitely see the guy's point. Looks like it's going to be gimmick tier in tournament where they can just react to it. I think there's going to be a really clear division between 4 or 5 top tiers, and the rest of the cast who will have pretty even matchups against eachother while getting absolutely destroyed by the top tier. Melee style... NRS balance for ya.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

A-List/Stunt Double are by and far his best variations. Fisticuffs is great for people online who don't know how to beat his string or get out of it.

A-List/SD are both great for pressure, you just have to use them different. A-list is cancels, SD is threatening clones (and I'm honestly extremely biased with SD, I feel way more comfortable and feel he's more flexible with zoning as well).

@Movieland KerrHolden the original post really details how strong SD is, and it's one of the reasons I'm continuing to use him. EX Rising Shadow on block is stupid good

i totally agree! SD is super strong (and was never suggesting otherwise) and is what i have been gravitating towards for personal play, but i think the mentality of "(STOP USING A-LIST)" that's presented in the thread title is not a good mentality. We should be using both, and discussing where each comes into play, but so far the dialogue I have been seeing are debates about which one we should be solely using. I understand it will take a lot longer and more MU knowledge to figure out where each is the most useful, but it never hurts to adopt a mentality that let's us use all the tools at our disposal