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Shadowfire

Mortal
Play reo and watch cd jr use him. That's how he's played and other should view and learn jax is a monster. And now with a faster projectile he can zone a little like cage.


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I've watched top Jax players win. It always seems to me like it's more because he surprises people that don't know the matchup, because his flaws are ones you can exploit so consistently. "a little like cage" is an appropriate phrase too because those two are my mains, and Jax always feels like a gimped Cage to me, he can basically do all the same things but worse, and with no wakeup prevention.

Note that I think Cage is pretty much perfect as-is and don't mean to imply he's overpowered, but rather that Jax requires so much more effort than most to win with.

Edit: However if you believe you have a counter-example, I'd love to see some top Jax matches you think would be good to study.
 

rrespiritu

Mortal Kom~what now?
You have to think the following chars got A LOT better:


Sheeva (she has armor on everything, even the start button. VERY smart of NRS to make her fireballs mid)
Stryker (Vulcan Hades probably sacrificed a small goat when he read the changes)
Jax (no comment, no need to, he's very very strong now)
Sindel (unless Dancock disagrees, which I don't think he will)
Jade (smart Jade players at least notice this)
SZ (I'm not even going to start)
KL (Yeah, that's right, KL. He got better. Think about it)
Raiden (Now he has mixups from EN Teleport)
Scorpion (Is EVERYBODY sleeping on the fact he has a very long range, fast takedown that's safe, or is it just me?)
Noob (overhead tackle is very, very nice. Fixing teleport was great too)
Sektor (no more missiles messing up, and TU is faster, which makes me sad but is great for Sektor players)
Reptile (anybody out there can punish his dash consistently after this patch? Oh yeah, EN slide has ARMOR now lol, silly NRS)
Rain (CDJr says his D3 is better? Cause you know, Rain sucked before right guys?)

Who was already good and received no changes?

Mileena (Who is still a monster in the right hands, I don't care what anybody says)
NW
Ermac
Kenshi
Sonya


Who got small nerfs but are still very good chars?

Cage
Kitana
Cyrax


I could go on, there are chars I'm missing, but the tier list will be very different in about 2 months. People have to rediscover their chars. Matchups will be so different, so I'm not sold on a for sure top 5 or even top 3 right now



Somebody PLEASE test this out
KL,Kitana,Cage,Cyrax,Reptile wont go down a tier even if theyre nerfed in every patch. NRS just cant do anything with these monsters1!
 

Shadowfire

Mortal
Does Cage even need nerfing? I think he's one of the pretty much perfect characters right now. He's good at what he's good at, and he has weaknesses which are exploitable but not crippling. If everyone was exactly as powerful as Cage but in different ways, I could dig that.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
I've watched top Jax players win. It always seems to me like it's more because he surprises people that don't know the matchup, because his flaws are ones you can exploit so consistently. "a little like cage" is an appropriate phrase too because those two are my mains, and Jax always feels like a gimped Cage to me, he can basically do all the same things but worse, and with no wakeup prevention.

Note that I think Cage is pretty much perfect as-is and don't mean to imply he's overpowered, but rather that Jax requires so much more effort than most to win with.

Edit: However if you believe you have a counter-example, I'd love to see some top Jax matches you think would be good to study.
What you just said goes for most characters in the game. Everyone too busy tier whoring to figure out how to fight against Quan chi, stryker, sheeva, jax, and etc.
 

Shadowfire

Mortal
What you just said goes for most characters in the game. Everyone too busy tier whoring to figure out how to fight against Quan chi, stryker, sheeva, jax, and etc.
I once had a high ranked pre-patch Kung Lao player send me an obscenity filled message about how cheap Jax's dash punch is.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
I think we can agree that jax went up. And thanks for giving me your lists guys. I just wanted to see how some of you would rank characters after this patch because my friend will not for the love of god let ermac slip from top 8. Don't take any one person's "list" seriously guys, I was just looking for opinions and observations.

Damn, I forgot to say you guys don't need to list them in any particular order. I was thinking that cyrax went way down after reading his patch notes but we'll have to wait til' the start over on the already unfinished tier list.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
A top 10 for me is pretty hard. But I'll give it a go.

1.Kabal
2. Reptile
3. Sub-Zero
4.Raiden
5. Kitana
6.Kano
7. Noob
8. Cage
9.Stryker
10. Jax( he is up there.)
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
A top 10 for me is pretty hard. But I'll give it a go.

1.Kabal
2. Reptile
3. Sub-Zero
4.Raiden
5. Kitana
6.Kano
7. Noob
8. Cage
9.Stryker
10. Jax( he is up there.)
lol. no. KL didn't really lose anything. Stryker nor Jax belong in top 10. neither does Noob for that matter... or Kano...
like you said... it is hard for you.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
lol. no. KL didn't really lose anything. Stryker nor Jax belong in top 10. neither does Noob for that matter... or Kano...
like you said... it is hard for you.
i seem to forget about KL.But what they did Stryker might put him there. Besides, it's hard for me because we don't have a real tier list yet. So I can't say who is really good. Because everyone is throwing the underrated card and the hidden technology card. But I also will defend that Kano... knife got better. So that knife and ball trick still works...on A LOT of characters. And Noob ain't up there? His little tackle is an overhead. So have fun blocking it. But overall I got a C+ on my list. I'm happy with my grade and your critique.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
What you just said goes for most characters in the game. Everyone too busy tier whoring to figure out how to fight against Quan chi, stryker, sheeva, jax, and etc.
Not meeeeeee...I always mix the "lower" fighters into practice.
But again, the goddamn AI rears its ugly head, because JAX being the beast that he definitely is, you'd never know it playing the near-braindead CPU.
Same goes for Stryker, QC, Smoke, Ermac, Sektor, Cage, CSZ, Human Sub...THERE ARE NO BREAKERS IN TRAINING MODE for christ's sake.
so even for those of us who do try and get a feel for everyone, you never reeeeally know what you're walking into until another human is at the controls, at which point you could potentially be all kinds of fucked.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
Not meeeeeee...I always mix the "lower" fighters into practice.
But again, the goddamn AI rears its ugly head, because JAX being the beast that he definitely is, you'd never know it playing the near-braindead CPU.
Same goes for Stryker, QC, Smoke, Ermac, Sektor, Cage, CSZ, Human Sub...THERE ARE NO BREAKERS IN TRAINING MODE for christ's sake.
so even for those of us who do try and get a feel for everyone, you never reeeeally know what you're walking into until another human is at the controls, at which point you could potentially be all kinds of fucked.
Do what I do. Watch videos of those characters being played. Or try the character yourself. That's what I do in BB.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
i seem to forget about KL.But what they did Stryker might put him there. Besides, it's hard for me because we don't have a real tier list yet. So I can't say who is really good. Because everyone is throwing the underrated card and the hidden technology card. But I also will defend that Kano... knife got better. So that knife and ball trick still works...on A LOT of characters. And Noob ain't up there? His little tackle is an overhead. So have fun blocking it. But overall I got a C+ on my list. I'm happy with my grade and your critique.
I came off as an ass... my bad. In any case. Noob relies on that zoning... but he doesn't have a get off me move. The overhead helps, but at the distance at which the clones (both tackle and slide) can be jumped where it hits matters not. At that distance its a 50/50 of clone or upKnee.
Kano has plenty of potential... but didn't gain much in the scheme of things. exKnife being a bit faster is neat... but your saving that meter for breakers and X-ray. Stryker might move up into the A tier ... but not top 10. I see why you think Jax is there... but Mileena is better. KL is better. Sektor is better. Sonya and Nightwolf are better.
I think you saw the changes and got a little greedy. I'm happy that most of the cast now hovers in the A tier. Only a few characters are below it... and thats mainly because they have the good ole' 10-0 or 9-1 matchup.
And I wouldn't say everyone was tier whoring... I main sub zero... but he's my favorite character. I'd play him regardless. There is a correlation with low tier and popularity in a way. That also equates to people not knowing matchups (I'm super guilty of this. QC is a mystery to me).
In any case... the way the game sets right now (input bug aside) anyone can be a beast with anyone if they know their matchups and execute (and have some luck).
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
I came off as an ass... my bad. In any case. Noob relies on that zoning... but he doesn't have a get off me move. The overhead helps, but at the distance at which the clones (both tackle and slide) can be jumped where it hits matters not. At that distance its a 50/50 of clone or upKnee.
Kano has plenty of potential... but didn't gain much in the scheme of things. exKnife being a bit faster is neat... but your saving that meter for breakers and X-ray. Stryker might move up into the A tier ... but not top 10. I see why you think Jax is there... but Mileena is better. KL is better. Sektor is better. Sonya and Nightwolf are better.
I think you saw the changes and got a little greedy. I'm happy that most of the cast now hovers in the A tier. Only a few characters are below it... and thats mainly because they have the good ole' 10-0 or 9-1 matchup.
And I wouldn't say everyone was tier whoring... I main sub zero... but he's my favorite character. I'd play him regardless. There is a correlation with low tier and popularity in a way. That also equates to people not knowing matchups (I'm super guilty of this. QC is a mystery to me).
In any case... the way the game sets right now (input bug aside) anyone can be a beast with anyone if they know their matchups and execute (and have some luck).
like I said before this is our UMK9. And I might have been a little greedy. You just can't say X character is better without taking in the other changes to the other characters. Also, I said most people were tier whoring because not only have I been harass to drop Jax for Kl. But I have seen many of the best just drop everything and go to Kl. Even at the recent tourney I was at. I was the only person that played Jax. There were two Sektors too. But everything else was your typical top tier feast. You had, ktiana, reptile, kabal, sub, and etc. But here's the funny part, I was able to keep up with most of them because they didn't know how to fight Jax. So, remember this my friend. And pass it on to your buddies.

-Stop tier whoring and actually learn Match ups you lazy fucks.

And it may sound rude, but my boy Check said it the best.

" MK9 is all about match ups. There really isn't a tier list."
 

KingShaz

In the Shadows
Noob now has a fullscreen over-head charge...:coffee:
And Sub-Zero has 10 extra frames to rape opponent off of freeze and armored slide :bs:
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
I've watched top Jax players win. It always seems to me like it's more because he surprises people that don't know the matchup,
I'm sure there is some truth to this, however that doesn't explain CDjr's jax, all the people that go to VSM play him all the time, especially his brothers who he plays constantly every day against there cyrax and kitana, sure by now these people have the jax matchup in check, and yet CDjr tends to win, a lot.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
"MK9 is all about match ups. There really isn't a tier list."
While I do think there's a tier list, he is right that this game is all matchups. They're all over the place lol.

But yeah...CDjr is just that good.
 
A top 10 for me is pretty hard. But I'll give it a go.

1.Kabal
2. Reptile
3. Sub-Zero
4.Raiden
5. Kitana
6.Kano
7. Noob
8. Cage
9.Stryker
10. Jax( he is up there.)[/QUOTE


I don't agree with this.

I think the top 10 in no particular order is:

Kabal, KL, Raiden, Reptile, Cage, Kitana, Cyrax, Smoke, Mileena, Sub-Zero

The next 5 after top 10 are probably....Ermac, NW, Liu, Sonya, Scorpion, CSZ

Jax is good but i wouldn't even put him in top 15. CDjr is just that good.
 

Theme

Kombatant
So I am a bit confused... is this patch already released for the PS3? haven't gotten any updates or patches since signing on yet... is it just me? It says 9/23/2011, but Im sure thats just the patch note release. Can someone confirm? Thanks.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Do what I do. Watch videos of those characters being played. Or try the character yourself. That's what I do in BB.
That's the plan, amigo. I'm always combing the tourney vids and streams and hoping for unique fights.

I totally agree w/the matchup over tiers opinion. There's always a way.
It's like football, all about studying tapes and holding a solid defensive wall.

So I guess by that logic, that really would make Brady the Bill Bellichek of MK.