MKX: The 3 to 6 Month Rule

[NY-Shadow]

False dilemma.
NRS will have to do tech support early anyway, and they will probably drop it completely after about half a year regardless. So the choice is not between having patches early or late, it's more about having them in the first 6 months or not having them at all if you don't like "early" patches.

Knowing NRS, I'd rather see them patching their stuff.

Well then just wait till the game comes out and see the avalanche of complaints about certain characters and how this game will be one of the greatest failures of NRS to date.

 

[Slips]

I never said it was a better game with him lol, I just said I don't think he was "broke". Like I stated above, broke to me means no one has a chance. I do not think that there were no characters that had a chance vs superman. Also add in zod, batgirl, MMH, and etc. and that would just add to the list. Overall, I am definitely not saying the patch on supes was a bad thing. Also if ppl don't remember, Chris g was able to consistently beat kdz with black Adam (tho Adam was obviously a top tier, I am just saying this because ppl think superman was completely unstoppable). Also kabal is better than supes free, I doubt any who think superman was worse than kabal would even land a round off of top kabal players like Detroit and REO/ they never dealt with kabals on that lvl.

Your sense of balance is different from what most of us are thinking and that's where the disconnect is. To me, balance means most of the characters can compete. To you, it seems as long as there are a handful of characters at the top that can beat eachother, it's balanced. And I think most people do not like that concept.

Superman destroyed 90% of the cast. Sure, maybe AM, BA and DS could hang. Maybe Batgirl, Zod and MMH could've hanged with him too. But you are still looking at a game where you can only pick 6 to 7 characters to even compete. That's not fun to play nor fun to watch. The character diversity in top 8's after the balance patch in Injustice was great. From Shazam, to Harley, to Catwoman, to Hawkgirl, to DS, to Raven to pretty much everyone in the game besides Joker, Scorp, Green Arrow and Ares...all these character can make top 8 where it would be impossible with how the game was before. People love variety. Whether you are a player or a spectator, that's what the people want.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

As a person that is HORRIBLE in the Kabal match up I can say, personally, I found Superman much worse.

Pressure: Kabal.

Zoning: Superman. Dash blocking allows you to close the distance much quicker in MK9 while ducking/getting chipped. A dash is a commitment in IGAU and the walk speed isn't great.

Corner: Superman. Pressure, damage, set ups, all better than Kabal.

Damage: Superman.



Superman is the most complete top tier character NRS has produced recently, he has everything you could possibly want in a character and you don't need heavy execution.


This was an already nerfed Superman

This guy needed work, and that's my entire thing. Some characters need work. Whether buffing or nerfing, some characters need work. To have NRS sit on their hands for 6 months while dealing with any nonsense that could occur is insane.

............ Smh. U really dnt know about kabal man haha. Also AM was nerfed before evo and we all know how good he was lol. Kabal zoning is better overall tho, can build tons of meter and his buzzsaw beats teles.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Your sense of balance is different from what most of us are thinking and that's where the disconnect is. To me, balance means most of the characters can compete. To you, it seems as long as there are a handful of characters at the top that can beat eachother, it's balanced. And I think most people do not like that concept.

Superman destroyed 90% of the cast. Sure, maybe AM, BA and DS could hang. Maybe Batgirl, Zod and MMH could've hanged with him too. But you are still looking at a game where you can only pick 6 to 7 characters to even compete. That's not fun to play nor fun to watch. The character diversity in top 8's after the balance patch in Injustice was great. From Shazam, to Harley, to Catwoman, to Hawkgirl, to DS, to Raven to pretty much everyone in the game besides Joker, Scorp, Green Arrow and Ares...all these character can make top 8 where it would be impossible with how the game was before. People love variety. Whether you are a player or a spectator, that's what the people want.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Your sense of balance is different from what most of us are thinking and that's where the disconnect is. To me, balance means most of the characters can compete. To you, it seems as long as there are a handful of characters at the top that can beat eachother, it's balanced. And I think most people do not like that concept.

Superman destroyed 90% of the cast. Sure, maybe AM, BA and DS could hang. Maybe Batgirl, Zod and MMH could've hanged with him too. But you are still looking at a game where you can only pick 6 to 7 characters to even compete. That's not fun to play nor fun to watch. The character diversity in top 8's after the balance patch in Injustice was great. From Shazam, to Harley, to Catwoman, to Hawkgirl, to DS, to Raven to pretty much everyone in the game besides Joker, Scorp, Green Arrow and Ares...all these character can make top 8 where it would be impossible with how the game was before. People love variety. Whether you are a player or a spectator, that's what the people want.

That actually is not my concept of balance haha, I was just stating a point. Also ppl said mk9 was like that where there were only a few characters who got top 8, yet liu kang, shang, sub, jax, and etc. Showed up in top 8s. I agree the patches helped injustice overall but it is messed up when a character like scorpion gets killed and a top tier like MMH gets a buff haha.
Let me say this: Superman getting nerfed was a good thing. My issue is that some get nerfed (like DS) and others pretty much stay the same (like MMH).

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Actually he isn't haha

 

[Compbros]

............ Smh. U really dnt know about kabal man haha. Also AM was nerfed before evo and we all know how good he was lol. Kabal zoning is better overall tho, can build tons of meter and his buzzsaw beats teles.

Clearly not, I said I'm awful in the matchup. But I believe people have a better chance against Kabal than Pre-patch Superman. Kabal is a really, REALLY, strong character, Superman was a travesty. You talk meter building but meter building in IGAU is much faster than MK9 and also gives you 4 bars with no breaker in case you get opened up.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Clearly not, I said I'm awful in the matchup. But I believe people have a better chance against Kabal than Pre-patch Superman. Kabal is a really, REALLY, strong character, Superman was a travesty. You talk meter building but meter building in IGAU is much faster than MK9 and also gives you 4 bars with no breaker in case you get opened up.

U know his iagb was 6 frames and did like 10 percent dmg? But then again no point arguing who is better, both messed up haha. Case in point, I just hope that if one top tier gets a nerf and etc., others should as well. And if one low tier gets buffs, others do as well. Also keep the buffs and nerfs around the same lvl for characters as well.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

don't patch until at least 6 months plz. a lot of stuff thats seemingly broken in the beginning is just because nobodys figured it out yet. remember when people couldn't deal with wesker anchor in marvel? who the fuck plays wesker these days?

 

[Slips]

That actually is not my concept of balance haha, I was just stating a point. Also ppl said mk9 was like that where there were only a few characters who got top 8, yet liu kang, shang, sub, jax, and etc. Showed up in top 8s. I agree the patches helped injustice overall but it is messed up when a character like scorpion gets killed and a top tier like MMH gets a buff haha.
Let me say this: Superman getting nerfed was a good thing. My issue is that some get nerfed (like DS) and others pretty much stay the same (like MMH).

You are bringing up very specific examples that we all can agree on and ignoring the grand scheme of how patches helped the game. Yes, Scorp got raped. (That wasn't NRSs' fault though if we're being real) Yes, DS MAYBE got over-nerfed (That's very arguable imo) and yes MMH shouldn't have gotten a buff.

The point is MOST of the patch ideas turn out good. Not all, but most of them. It's easy to nit pick and point out examples of how it hurt certain characters, but it overall helps the entire game.

Saying you think patches are bad is like the President saying Congress making new bills and laws are bad because sometimes they don't work out. Most problems don't fix themselves like you are saying. Most of the time it gets worse. Superman and Black Adam would've continued to dominate most of the cast and the game would've died.

NRS I feel does a good job getting the problems fixed. Sure maybe through the course of fixing 10 problems 2 new ones arise. But at least there is progression and it all works toward making the game better.

 

[haketh]

NRS I feel does a good job getting the problems fixed. Sure maybe through the course of fixing 10 problems 2 new ones arise. But at least there is progression and it all works toward making the game better.

I would say they're merely okay at it compared to all the other devs honestly.

 

[Slips]

I would say they're merely okay at it compared to all the other devs honestly.

Examples?

 

[haketh]

Examples?

ASW
Capcom
Namco
SNK

Then again they all have the advantage of being at this for alot longer than NRS.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Then again they all have the advantage of being at this for alot longer than NRS.

Practice makes perfect definitely applies. NRS has made what, 2 FGs in the past 10 years that they actually attempted to balance? You can tell they are getting better at it, even if they are behind some other Devs.

 

[Slips]

ASW
Capcom
Namco
SNK

Then again they all have the advantage of being at this for alot longer than NRS.

Namco hasn't put out a good Tekken game since T5: DR. MvC3 has balance issues as bad Injustce...if not MK9 levels. Street Fighter IV is not well-balanced either. I don't know much about SNK games but with all those characters I definitely see the same ones over and over so I am not seeing how other devs really do that much better.

Lets also take into account all of those devs have the benefit of playtesting their games at arcades in Japan and fine-tune their games as much as they can before they even touch US soil. Guily Gear Xrd has had like 8 playtests before their next patch is released. A luxury NRS doesn't have.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

You are bringing up very specific examples that we all can agree on and ignoring the grand scheme of how patches helped the game. Yes, Scorp got raped. (That wasn't NRSs' fault though if we're being real) Yes, DS MAYBE got over-nerfed (That's very arguable imo) and yes MMH shouldn't have gotten a buff.

The point is MOST of the patch ideas turn out good. Not all, but most of them. It's easy to nit pick and point out examples of how it hurt certain characters, but it overall helps the entire game.

Saying you think patches are bad is like the President saying Congress making new bills and laws are bad because sometimes they don't work out. Most problems don't fix themselves like you are saying. Most of the time it gets worse. Superman and Black Adam would've continued to dominate most of the cast and the game would've died.

NRS I feel does a good job getting the problems fixed. Sure maybe through the course of fixing 10 problems 2 new ones arise. But at least there is progression and it all works toward making the game better.

I nvr said they were bad at making patches, I said some changes just don't add up. I am not ignoring the grand scheme either, u are just assuming that . Most changes are good? That I am not super sure about. I think a good amount of the changes work out, but there are some that just grind my gears (like the dash nerf in mk9 haha). I agree with ya that the patches helped in multiple ways but they messed up in a few ways that did not help the game out as a competitive fighter (nerfing sub or buffing bane a whole bunch didn't necessarily make ppl happy haha).

 

[Sutter Pain]

Not really worried about the patches in the first year, it is what it is . Its the patches that come after the 1 plus year mark I hope we will get.

 

[Slips]

I nvr said they were bad at making patches, I said some changes just don't add up. I am not ignoring the grand scheme either, u are just assuming that . Most changes are good? That I am not super sure about. I think a good amount of the changes work out, but there are some that just grind my gears (like the dash nerf in mk9 haha). I agree with ya that the patches helped in multiple ways but they messed up in a few ways that did not help the game out as a competitive fighter (nerfing sub or buffing bane a whole bunch didn't necessarily make ppl happy haha).

What are you saying then? You initially said all the obvious things like infinites and glitches should be patched. Then you said people would've found ways around Superman. Then you said Superman wasn't 'fine' and he needed to be changed. Now you say the changes NRS makes don't add up. I'm totally lost on where you stand now.

Regardless, I challenge you to actually go back, look at the patch notes and add up the ones that were bad vs. the ones that were good. I'm gonna throw out a number and say 90% of them were good.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

What are you saying then? You initially said all the obvious things like infinites and glitches should be patched. Then you said people would've found ways around Superman. Then you said Superman wasn't 'fine' and he needed to be changed. Now you say the changes NRS makes don't add up. I'm totally lost on where you stand now.

Regardless, I challenge you to actually go back, look at the patch notes and add up the ones that were bad vs. the ones that were good. I'm gonna throw out a number and say 90% of them were good.

Maybe I dnt know what I am saying right now lmao, probably because of college and a lack of sleep. Also I will get to that, and come back with my decision when I get a chance. Challenge accepted

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I agree with @Slips there is no reason to not patch because of some arbitrary time-frame limit on patches. If something is broken, it needs to be fixed. Superman should have been addressed more thoroughly in the first patch and because he wasn't, Injustice STILL has the FGC rep of being dominated by Superman a year and a half after he was patched. EVO 2013 undeniably hurt the scene, and I think it was largely due to this "wait and see" mentality.

 

[haketh]

Namco hasn't put out a good Tekken game since T5: DR. MvC3 has balance issues as bad Injustce...if not MK9 levels. Street Fighter IV is not well-balanced either. I don't know much about SNK games but with all those characters I definitely see the same ones over and over so I am not seeing how other devs really do that much better.

I disagree with all of that except Marvel mainly & I'm also referring to the EXVS series when it comes to Namco. But different strokes yadda yadda

 

[Slips]

I disagree with all of that except Marvel mainly & I'm also referring to the EXVS series when it comes to Namco. But different strokes yadda yadda

Ok. I can't force you to argue if that's what you simply choose to believe.

 

[HeroesNZ]

As much as we chastise them, NRS are improving in terms of balancing. Injustice was a step in the right direction and I'm sure they've learnt from their mistakes.

Trust in NRS.

Hopefully this time around Scorpion will be able to escape from mediocrity.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I agree with @Slips there is no reason to not patch because of some arbitrary time-frame limit on patches. If something is broken, it needs to be fixed. Superman should have been addressed more thoroughly in the first patch and because he wasn't, Injustice STILL has the FGC rep of being dominated by Superman a year and a half after he was patched. EVO 2013 undeniably hurt the scene, and I think it was largely due to this "wait and see" mentality.

I'm surprised there was a wait and see mentality for superman lol. While ppl were getting so worked up over "low guns" and "scorpion breaking the rules of the game" they should have been focusing on superman as well. It took till after evo for ppl to go crazy about superman, but he was always a very strong character so that is weird that two characters that weren't even as good him got nerfed before he did...... smh. Either way, I know MKX is going to have some early patches (some for infinites and what not and of course nerfs and buffs for characters and prolly some universal change) and like I have already stated, people going to whine no matter what happens tbh lol. I'm prepared for the inevitable "mob hunt" on characters that will happen and the threads that will be made and then the cycle will continue with injustice 2.
Edit: I remember when ed boon came up to me at evo 2013 and said did superman need nerfs, I'm just like "Hell Yeah!" haha
Evo 2014 came along and he was thrilled i beat theo with deathstroke lol.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yall mentioned Superman all thread, but there were so many other characters/reasons for early patching. It's not the time a patch comes, it's the fact that patching stops completely within the first year or not long after DLC. There should be a patch within the 1st month to adjust balance, then one every 3 months for the next 18 months.

Like really, do you really want 6+ months of this not being patched?

• Water of Life Character Power now lasts 2 seconds (down from 2.5) and has an 8 second cool down (increased from 7 seconds)
• Increased the ability to punish a Trident Scoop (Down, Back, 1) from Aquaman when the defender blocks.
• Normalized the amount of damage Aquaman inflicts on an opponent while they are blocking his Trident Rush (Down, Forward + 1)