Batman FINAL Matchup Chart

[Slips]

As for the Flash/Catwoman thing, those type of matchups are the exception rather than the rule. There is a reason that "playing the game" is spammed by some; it is a rare thing to see in Injustice. Most of Sinestro's matchups do not flow like those types of matchups. I'd also argue that MK had polarizing MUs because some characters (Kabal, Cyrax) were straight up broken. The fluidity movement and the engine of MK9 better allowed people to overcome bad matchups.

I disagree with this. There is a strong correlation with mobility and tiers in MK9 with the exception of Cyrax.

Kabal, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Smoke, Sonya, Freddy and Cage either have great mobility because of their special moves (Kabal, Kung Lao, Smoke and Freddy) or they have some of the best footspeed in the game (Cage, Sonya, Kenshi).

I agree it is masked more in MK9 because blocking means you stand still as opposed to Injustice where blocking also doubles as walking back, but the problem you have with Injustice definitely is there in MK9 as well. There's a reason why it took Cyrax years to finally win a major despite how broke he is.

 

[Peckapowa]

@FOREVER KING
What makes you think MMH is a possibly 7-3? I've always felt MMH had a pretty big advantage. But 7-3? Hmmmm..

MMH positives

• Can't get counterzoned, bats have a terrible start up.
• OH tele can be abused more when compared to other MUs. However.. getting in batman's face in the first place isn't a good idea.
• Fullscreen frame traps, close orbs, and precise pillar placement can build meter and keep me at a comfortable distance.
• Trait 3, However it can't be tossed out freely vs batman compared to most of the cast.
• Can counter MB b3 with b3 on reaction.
• Batman has a pretty bad post-OH tele game, even with bats in some situations. I can react to b3, or jump back if you use trait, etc.

Batman positives

• Trait is huge for countering trait 3, along with catching me tossing out an orb. It can also lock me down forcing me into turtling.
• B3 has incredible range, making it a great tool to counter trait 3. When martian is without trait your trait and b3 are even better at mid-distance, but I'm not delusional and I realize MMH has incredible cooldown on it.
• Batman has multiple safe jump set ups on MMH, stopping my wake up force push. Which many lack the ability to do so.

-I didn't involve things like Batman's vortex or Martian's set ups in this because I wanted to use MU specific knowledge to make these points. So I only used tools that are MU based. I'm sure I can think of more, but these stick out the most. I'd just like to see your look on the MU possibly being 7-3, because it isn't unrealistic. I still say 6-4 though

A big problem for batman is his wake up game against mmh knockdown game and mmhs aerial mobility but I've never felt it to be quite 7-3...

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I disagree with this. There is a strong correlation with mobility and tiers in MK9 with the exception of Cyrax.

Kabal, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Smoke, Sonya, Freddy and Cage either have great mobility because of their special moves (Kabal, Kung Lao, Smoke and Freddy) or they have some of the best footspeed in the game (Cage, Sonya, Kenshi).

I agree it is masked more in MK9 because blocking means you stand still as opposed to Injustice where blocking also doubles as walking back, but the problem you have with Injustice definitely is there in MK9 as well. There's a reason why it took Cyrax years to finally win a major despite how broke he is.

Masked or not, there are few things in MK9 that feel as stifiling and pointless as fighting some matchups in Injustice. True, the MK9 low tiers were useless, but i think a majority of the characters in Injustice have matchups that are absolutely impossible.

 

[Slips]

Masked or not, there are few things in MK9 that feel as stifiling and pointless as fighting some matchups in Injustice. True, the MK9 low tiers were useless, but i think a majority of the characters in Injustice have matchups that are absolutely impossible.

As a Scorpion player I completely disagree with this 100% lol. Scorpion vs. anyone in the top 10 in MK9 is an absolute nightmare who knows how to exploit his weaknesses. And Scorpion isn't even bottom 5 in the cast of MK9.

 

[ForeverKing]

Masked or not, there are few things in MK9 that feel as stifiling and pointless as fighting some matchups in Injustice. True, the MK9 low tiers were useless, but i think a majority of the characters in Injustice have matchups that are absolutely impossible.

I definitely feel like the low tiers in Injustice have a better chance against the high tiers in injustice compared to the chance the low tiers in MK9 have vs the high tiers in MK9. Injustice is more balanced by far.

There are for more 9-1's, 8-2's, and 7-3's in MK9 then Injustice. Injustice has wayyyyyyyy more 5-5's then MK9, by a long shot

 

[haketh]

I definitely feel like the low tiers in Injustice have a better chance against the high tiers in injustice compared to the chance the low tiers in MK9 have vs the high tiers in MK9. Injustice is more balanced by far.

There are for more 9-1's, 8-2's, and 7-3's in MK9 then Injustice. Injustice has wayyyyyyyy more 5-5's then MK9, by a long shot

I'd much rather be playing Ares, Cyborg, Scorpion, or Joker against Top 10 then play Baraka, Jade, Stryker, or Kano against Top 10

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

As a Scorpion player I completely disagree with this 100% lol. Scorpion vs. anyone in the top 10 in MK9 is an absolute nightmare who knows how to exploit his weaknesses. And Scorpion isn't even bottom 5 in the cast of MK9.

Well yea, scorpion sucks lol. The shitters in MK9 are worse than in injustice. But I also think that most characters in Injustice outside of the top 5 are irrelevant. I literally can't remember the last time a character outside of top 5 has won a big tournament. Sure, a character like Hawkgirl has a better chance of placing than a character like her in MK9 but she still has to get a good path. In both games, the shitters are ultimately irrelevant anyways. They have almost no chance of winning.

 

[Phosferrax]

Batman has block pressure, but a lack of good mixups to open up his opponent. Of course nobody can block forever, but I'd far rather try to defend against his reactable mixups than defend against Sinestro's jumping mixup game.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Batman has block pressure, but a lack of good mixups to open up his opponent. Of course nobody can block forever, but I'd far rather try to defend against his reactable mixups than defend against Sinestro's jumping mixup game.

Batman does have a 50/50 mixup off of grapple, not to mention his oki dirt. Batman's jump normals and jump arc are far superior to sinestro's, so if he is letting sinestro jump around like a maniac, he is doing something wrong.

 

[haketh]

Well yea, scorpion sucks lol. The shitters in MK9 are worse than in injustice. But I also think that most characters in Injustice outside of the top 5 are irrelevant. I literally can't remember the last time a character outside of top 5 has won a big tournament. Sure, a character like Hawkgirl has a better chance of placing than a character like her in MK9 but she still has to get a good path. In both games, the shitters are ultimately irrelevant anyways. They have almost no chance of winning.

Sounds like fighting games

 

[Phosferrax]

Batman does have a 50/50 mixup off of grapple, not to mention his oki dirt. Batman's jump normals and jump arc are far superior to sinestro's, so if he is letting sinestro jump around like a maniac, he is doing something wrong.

I'm speaking specifically about their options on block. Plus, Batman needs meter for his 50/50 which instantly makes it worse than Sinestro's. That plus he needs to have already hit you in order to set it up, but Sinestro gets it from jumping at him. His only way of reliably anti-airing Sinestro is with pre-emptive jump attacks, which inherently carry more risks than Sinestro's d2 at neutral range. Sinestro simply has to land a blocked j3 and he gets a good mixup from that, and it's easier for Sinestro to jump in at Batman than vice versa.

 

[Slips]

Well yea, scorpion sucks lol. The shitters in MK9 are worse than in injustice. But I also think that most characters in Injustice outside of the top 5 are irrelevant. I literally can't remember the last time a character outside of top 5 has won a big tournament. Sure, a character like Hawkgirl has a better chance of placing than a character like her in MK9 but she still has to get a good path. In both games, the shitters are ultimately irrelevant anyways. They have almost no chance of winning.

Yes and a part of the reason those characters suck is because their mobility sucks. True a lot of it is because they suck in general, but even if they had all the tools in the end they lose because their dash isn't good enough. Liu Kang, Sektor and Mileena are examples of characters having all the tools you need to be good but in the end just lose because their mobility is so limited and they have to take risks to get in. Just like Injustice.

Your point about characters being irrelevant outside of top 5 applies to most fighting games. Top players using top tier characters tend to win and it surprises nobody. That's why people get more hyped seeing people like Blind Ducky get top 8 with Raven than Jupiter winning the whole thing. That's not just an MK9/Injustice problem. That's just fighting games.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I'm speaking specifically about their options on block. Plus, Batman needs meter for his 50/50 which instantly makes it worse than Sinestro's. That plus he needs to have already hit you in order to set it up, but Sinestro gets it from jumping at him. His only way of reliably anti-airing Sinestro is with pre-emptive jump attacks, which inherently carry more risks than Sinestro's d2 at neutral range. Sinestro simply has to land a blocked j3 and he gets a good mixup from that, and it's easier for Sinestro to jump in at Batman than vice versa.

Sinestro actually gets no mixup off of most of his jump 3s. The only thing he can get off of a DEEP as possible jp3 is a d1 check or d2. This is both because of the frames and the spacing. Most people don't take advantage of this. His preemptive jump attacks carry the same risk as sinestro's d2. D2 is very punishable.

 

[Phosferrax]

Sinestro actually gets no mixup off of most of his jump 3s. The only thing he can get off of a DEEP as possible jp3 is a d1 check or d2. This is both because of the frames and the spacing. Most people don't take advantage of this. His preemptive jump attacks carry the same risk as sinestro's d2. D2 is very punishable.

Being able to backdash does not equate to not getting a mixup, although I will lab this to make sure I'm not chatting shit. And they do not carry the same risk, as Batman must do it on a read, whereas Sinestro can d2 on reaction to a jump. I'm taking about reliably anti-airing a jump in attempt. Sinestro's d2 is simply far superior as an anti-air than a pre-emptive jump attack when you weigh them up.

 

[ForeverKing]

Batman does have a 50/50 mixup off of grapple, not to mention his oki dirt. Batman's jump normals and jump arc are far superior to sinestro's, so if he is letting sinestro jump around like a maniac, he is doing something wrong.

You always mention Batman's vortex off of grapple, but you don't acknowledge how he actually has to hit you first to start the vortex. So opponent's with really good defense that can react to slow overheads, how do you get them into that vortex?

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Being able to backdash does not equate to not getting a mixup, although I will lab this to make sure I'm not chatting shit. And they do not carry the same risk, as Batman must do it on a read, whereas Sinestro can d2 on reaction to a jump. I'm taking about reliably anti-airing a jump in attempt. Sinestro's d2 is simply far superior as an anti-air than a pre-emptive jump attack when you weigh them up.

Batman should not be jumping in at mid range. Smart Batmen mostly jump when they are already in your face, which is impossible to react to. Even at farther ranges, I have to know that the jump is coming in order to stop it and even then it sometimes trades.

Yes and a part of the reason those characters suck is because their mobility sucks. True a lot of it is because they suck in general, but even if they had all the tools in the end they lose because their dash isn't good enough. Liu Kang, Sektor and Mileena are examples of characters having all the tools you need to be good but in the end just lose because their mobility is so limited and they have to take risks to get in. Just like Injustice.

Your point about characters being irrelevant outside of top 5 applies to most fighting games. Top players using top tier characters tend to win and it surprises nobody. That's why people get more hyped seeing people like Blind Ducky get top 8 with Raven than Jupiter winning the whole thing. That's not just an MK9/Injustice problem. That's just fighting games.

I disagree about the mobility thing. Even if someone like Liu Kang had Cage's mobility, he would probably still lose 7-3 to Kenshi. Also, let's take Shang as an example. He has average to below average mobility and he is able to do relatively well against Kabal and Kenshi. I think that Kang and Sektor lose to the characters that they lose to simply because they lack adequate strings and specials to combat those characters.Hell, Sektor has the best forward dash in the game and a teleport and he still gets bodied by Kabal and Kenshi. Even when a character's mobility is just average in MK9, it still is usually enough to keep a character in the fight.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

You always mention Batman's vortex off of grapple, but you don't acknowledge how he actually has to hit you first to start the vortex. So opponent's with really good defense that can react to slow overheads, how do you get them into that vortex?

By either playing defensively and punishing a move (like all of Sinestro's zoning) or by jumping around like a maniac ONCE you are in their face. Sinestro has to take a risk to try and preempt Batman's jumps at close range.

 

[ForeverKing]

By either playing defensively and punishing a move (like all of Sinestro's zoning) or by jumping around like a maniac ONCE you are in their face. Sinestro has to take a risk to try and preempt Batman's jumps at close range.

I agree with punishing moves, but what does jumping around like a maniac achieve Batman when the opponent just blocks? What I'm going to do J2 into a string into trait cancel, then use the frame advantage of the trait cancel to do another string..... then at that point the only way to keep pressure going is with MB batarangs. If you block all that then I don't have meter. Now what?

If Batman's opponent's defense is on point, literally the only way to start combos is by punishes

 

[Peckapowa]

Batman should not be jumping in at mid range. Smart Batmen mostly jump when they are already in your face, which is impossible to react to. Even at farther ranges, I have to know that the jump is coming in order to stop it and even then it sometimes trades.


I disagree about the mobility thing. Even if someone like Liu Kang had Cage's mobility, he would probably still lose 7-3 to Kenshi. Also, let's take Shang as an example. He has average to below average mobility and he is able to do relatively well against Kabal and Kenshi. I think that Kang and Sektor lose to the characters that they lose to simply because they lack adequate strings and specials to combat those characters.Hell, Sektor has the best forward dash in the game and a teleport and he still gets bodied by Kabal and Kenshi. Even when a character's mobility is just average in MK9, it still is usually enough to keep a character in the fight.

The only reason sektor gets bodied by kabal is because buzz saw makes tp whiff. He might beat kabal if not for that, literally you beat sektor by buzz saw spamming. Both characters have excellent strings, and liu kang only loses to kabal because his hitbox gets destroyed by kabals pressure, and probably kabals armor. Strings don't matter vs kenshi because kenshi wrecks strings. But tbh sektor can really take adv of kenshis hitbox, it's just oh slashes wreck his counterzoning, and kenshi has the armor adv.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I agree with punishing moves, but what does jumping around like a maniac achieve Batman when the opponent just blocks? What I'm going to do J2 into a string into trait cancel, then use the frame advantage of the trait cancel to do another string..... then at that point the only way to keep pressure going is with MB batarangs. If you block all that then I don't have meter. Now what?

If Batman's opponent's defense is on point, literally the only way to start combos is by punishes

No, you are going to just jump 2 and jump 3. Even Batman players can't always tell if they will cross up or not lol. And again, all of this rush down stuff is barely relevant in the Sinestro matchup because Batman does not have to rush him down.

 

[ForeverKing]

No, you are going to just jump 2 and jump 3. Even Batman players can't always tell if they will cross up or not lol. And again, all of this rush down stuff is barely relevant in the Sinestro matchup because Batman does not have to rush him down.

If you're so close to a character that they can't anti air Batman, then you know the J2 is going to cross over.

But I still disagree heavily in Batman doesn't need to rush Sinestro down. Batman can't beat Sinestro in the zoning war, he needs to rush down

 

[Peckapowa]

Yes and a part of the reason those characters suck is because their mobility sucks. True a lot of it is because they suck in general, but even if they had all the tools in the end they lose because their dash isn't good enough. Liu Kang, Sektor and Mileena are examples of characters having all the tools you need to be good but in the end just lose because their mobility is so limited and they have to take risks to get in. Just like Injustice.

Your point about characters being irrelevant outside of top 5 applies to most fighting games. Top players using top tier characters tend to win and it surprises nobody. That's why people get more hyped seeing people like Blind Ducky get top 8 with Raven than Jupiter winning the whole thing. That's not just an MK9/Injustice problem. That's just fighting games.

I actually think liu is underrated, he's in the same breath as cage. Cage gets wrecked by top 5 also but both have extremely good footsie and poke games

 

[Slips]

Batman should not be jumping in at mid range. Smart Batmen mostly jump when they are already in your face, which is impossible to react to. Even at farther ranges, I have to know that the jump is coming in order to stop it and even then it sometimes trades.


I disagree about the mobility thing. Even if someone like Liu Kang had Cage's mobility, he would probably still lose 7-3 to Kenshi. Also, let's take Shang as an example. He has average to below average mobility and he is able to do relatively well against Kabal and Kenshi. I think that Kang and Sektor lose to the characters that they lose to simply because they lack adequate strings and specials to combat those characters.Hell, Sektor has the best forward dash in the game and a teleport and he still gets bodied by Kabal and Kenshi. Even when a character's mobility is just average in MK9, it still is usually enough to keep a character in the fight.

Part of the reason Kenshi is so broke is because he has the best back walk in the game, which falls under the 'mobility' category in my book. Walking back, which is one of the harder things to deal with for a lot of characters in Injustice, is one of the main reasons Kenshi is so broke in MK9. If you can stop him from walking back so hard, which Shang can do because of up skull, then yay you can actually fight Kenshi and he has to play the game. If you cannot, he rapes you.

Kitana is another prime example. She has practically no mix-up ability but she does half life and you can never touch her because her back walk speed is out of control. It's the main reason someone as broke as Cyrax might lose to a character that arguably isn't even top 10.

Sektor used to have one of the best dashes in the game but it's pretty tame now. You are right that some of these characters simply don't have as good of tools and it's just balance in general, but I think 50% of it is also because they can't touch characters with higher mobility as well.

 

[Slips]

I actually think liu is underrated, he's in the same breath as cage. Cage gets wrecked by top 5 also but both have extremely good footsie and poke games

Cage is undoubtedly top 8. Liu might barely crack top 10 but that's a hard pressed argument with Jax, Kitana and Reptile pushing for the 10th spot as well. He's not bad don't get me wrong, but if he had a dash like Cage's and Sonya's then he'd be top 10 easy imo.

 

[Crusty]

Not trying to start anything but I honestly think the matchup with GA is 5-5 (possibly 6-4 Arrow) in the corner, but that is just me. He's very easy to pressure on knockdown.