Delaying Wake-up Attacks + New Way to Stuff Wake-ups

[HoneyBee]

I use delayed wake ups all the time. Flash's LK and LC can work really well against different characters that try to oki him if he delays them.

 

[Eldriken]

I use delayed wake ups all the time. Flash's LK and LC can work really well against different characters that try to oki him if he delays them.

Eff you and your character's wake ups. =(

I have to do TWO different kind of setups to avoid them in the corner via reversals. >_>

 

[Vagrant]

If the meaty you're using has enough active frames on it. The delay, in theory, shouldn't make a difference right?

 

[Laos_boy]

Mb f3

 

[JTB123]

Delayed wake up WC and MB cleaver are godlike, I use them all the time. If people aren't using this in their game then they definitely should be.

 

[ryublaze]

Why are you beggging not to be blown up lol

cuz it seems like that's what people like to do around here. was afraid i might be posting "day 1 meta". idc about all the drama on TYM, i just want to talk about the game.

If the meaty you're using has enough active frames on it. The delay, in theory, shouldn't make a difference right?

idk i was trying moves like hawkgirl's standing 3 to stuff wake-ups (which is really good @Espio ) but i could still find a way out. again might just be me mistiming it...

btw i made an edit to the OP. i think some people were misinterpreting what i was trying to show in this thread

 

[ryublaze]

I just got back from testing this with @Slips @MajinBerserker and @KHAOTIC_SWIFT. Turns out I was right (not to sound like an ass). Catwoman and Raven CAN wake-up out of certain knockdown "vortexes" if they change the timing of their wake-up attacks. There might be a possibility that a specific timing can stuff both a regular and delayed wake-up, such as being a just-frame but it would still be too inconsistent to actually vortex them. We think it's character specific and depends on the move you use to stuff the wake-up. Fast multi-hitting moves like Doomsday's Earthshaker will stuff them regardless if they're delayed or not. If you still don't believe me then idk what to say, just go to the lab yourself and thoroughly test it with all possible stuffings and wake-up timings.

So Catwoman/Raven getting vortexed for free in certain match-ups = bill ??? I've been saying this for months...not like anyone's going to listen to me since I'm a nobody...

I also found that the meaty stuffing tech works on Aquaman and Zod too (updated OP with videos). No more delayed wake-up b.s. for them.

@Espio @RunwayMafia @Ecodus @GGA Saucy Jack @Laos_boy @Drizzle @Red Reaper @Doombawkz @EMPEROR_SunFire

 

[Doombawkz]

I just got back from testing this with @Slips @MajinBerserker and @KHAOTIC_SWIFT. Turns out I was right (not to sound like an ass). Catwoman and Raven CAN wake-up out of certain knockdown "vortexes" if they change the timing of their wake-up attacks. There might be a possibility that a specific timing can stuff both a regular and delayed wake-up, such as being a just-frame but it would still be too inconsistent to actually vortex them. We think it's character specific and depends on the move you use to stuff the wake-up. Fast multi-hitting moves like Doomsday's Earthshaker will stuff them regardless if they're delayed or not. If you still don't believe me then idk what to say, just go to the lab yourself and thoroughly test it with all possible stuffings and wake-up timings.

So Catwoman/Raven getting vortexed for free in certain match-ups = bill ??? I've been saying this for months...not like anyone's going to listen to me since I'm a nobody...

I also found that the meaty stuffing tech works on Aquaman and Zod too (updated OP with videos). No more delayed wake-up b.s. for them.

@Espio @RunwayMafia @Ecodus @GGA Saucy Jack @Laos_boy @Drizzle @Red Reaper @Doombawkz

Good job I guess? I mean I pretty much said you were right, I just have my reservations about catwoman and raven having it against certain moves.
Not that it matters for Bane really since we can eat invuln with ghost cancels.

 

[NoobHunter420]

came in thinking this was an old thread from week 1.
this shouldn't be news for 99% of tym users.
am a complete scrub and I knew this

 

[Red Reaper]

I just got back from testing this with @Slips @MajinBerserker and @KHAOTIC_SWIFT. Turns out I was right (not to sound like an ass). Catwoman and Raven CAN wake-up out of certain knockdown "vortexes" if they change the timing of their wake-up attacks. There might be a possibility that a specific timing can stuff both a regular and delayed wake-up, such as being a just-frame but it would still be too inconsistent to actually vortex them. We think it's character specific and depends on the move you use to stuff the wake-up. Fast multi-hitting moves like Doomsday's Earthshaker will stuff them regardless if they're delayed or not. If you still don't believe me then idk what to say, just go to the lab yourself and thoroughly test it with all possible stuffings and wake-up timings.

So Catwoman/Raven getting vortexed for free in certain match-ups = bill ??? I've been saying this for months...not like anyone's going to listen to me since I'm a nobody...

I also found that the meaty stuffing tech works on Aquaman and Zod too (updated OP with videos). No more delayed wake-up b.s. for them.

@Espio @RunwayMafia @Ecodus @GGA Saucy Jack @Laos_boy @Drizzle @Red Reaper @Doombawkz @EMPEROR_SunFire

Yeah... You are 100% korrect. I was never really vocal about this because Aquaman doesn't need anymore help. lol. (I mentioned it very few times, like here.)

 

[ryublaze]

came in thinking this was an old thread from week 1.
this shouldn't be news for 99% of tym users.
am a complete scrub and I knew this

u knew that characters like catwoman/raven can get out of vortexes by just changing their wake-up timings when the majority of the community have been saying these characters "can't get up"? u knew that certain characters can stuff wake-ups by timing a meaty so that not even characters like AM/Zod can wake-up? right... idk if this is a troll

 

[ryublaze]

Yeah... You are 100% korrect. I was never really vocal about this because Aquaman doesn't need anymore help. lol. (I mentioned it very few times, like here.)

that's y i tagged u and @Doombawkz lol. the people who actually tested this in the lab themselves already knew this was true. just wanted to make sure it was known in the community

 

[Ecodus]

I just got back from testing this with @Slips @MajinBerserker and @KHAOTIC_SWIFT. Turns out I was right (not to sound like an ass). Catwoman and Raven CAN wake-up out of certain knockdown "vortexes" if they change the timing of their wake-up attacks. There might be a possibility that a specific timing can stuff both a regular and delayed wake-up, such as being a just-frame but it would still be too inconsistent to actually vortex them. We think it's character specific and depends on the move you use to stuff the wake-up. Fast multi-hitting moves like Doomsday's Earthshaker will stuff them regardless if they're delayed or not. If you still don't believe me then idk what to say, just go to the lab yourself and thoroughly test it with all possible stuffings and wake-up timings.

So Catwoman/Raven getting vortexed for free in certain match-ups = bill ??? I've been saying this for months...not like anyone's going to listen to me since I'm a nobody...

I also found that the meaty stuffing tech works on Aquaman and Zod too (updated OP with videos). No more delayed wake-up b.s. for them.

@Espio @RunwayMafia @Ecodus @GGA Saucy Jack @Laos_boy @Drizzle @Red Reaper @Doombawkz @EMPEROR_SunFire

Except for your meaty KD set up means CW still gets vortexed for free.

 

[Drizzle]

Except for your meaty KD set up means CW still gets vortexed for free.

Not really. It depends on the character as not all of them have fast two-hitting strings that are also used for 50/50s, and it seems to be corner-only for most. Also I don't know that there's any character with a fast multi-hitting low and overhead, so your delayed wake-up could still work if they try to use something else.

 

[Rip Torn]

you can find timings that completely beat both options if you spend another minute in training mode usually.

Yep, and you can also end combos with d2's or strings that force a certain wakeup timing. For example, ending a combo with Batgirl's 11u2d1 forces a fast wakeup with good timing for b2 to stuff their wakeup (unless they techroll midscreen). Most characters can force these timings by exploring the different knockdowns of each string/special ender.

 

[ryublaze]

Except for your meaty KD set up means CW still gets vortexed for free.

only in the corner it's extremely difficult for Deathstroke to do this midscreen because he has to dash up twice and time a d1 xx sword spin early enough so that they can't delay wake-up. and Wonder Woman can't do this midscreen at all. but say flash does his overhead or wonder woman does her b2, u could still wake-up out of those since they're not fast multi-hitting. the only character that can truly vortex her on knockdown in the corner is Deathstroke since he can cancel both his low/overhead into 7 frame sword spin.

EDIT: Actually, in regards to Wonder Woman, she can do this midscreen off of her d3. and she can still vortex catwoman/raven if she does instant air demigoddess (16 frames) instead of b2. Her standing 3 which is her low is 14 frames so in theory she should still be able to vortex these characters without having to worry about wake-ups.

 

[Ninequads93]

Sinestro can do this w/ 1b2 and 1b2 bounce cancel is an option select that will hit Raven wakeup everytime don't know if it's worth it but just throwing it out there.

 

[Slips]

Yea me and @RedRaptor10 tried to get a recording where Catwoman had no options but to block to get out and we could not.

I guess this matchup is 5-5 after all. Damn, can I get some props?

 

[Doombawkz]

God its nice to main Bane and not have to worry about Wake-up options most of the time.
Seems like a pain in the ass to actually have to think and time things.

 

[16 Bit]

Yea me and @RedRaptor10 tried to get a recording where Catwoman had no options but to block to get out and we could not.

I guess this matchup is 5-5 after all. Damn, can I get some props?

 

[BillStickers]

Note for online players who are thinking of going offline: When I played online I got really used to the timing of my wakeups in order to blow up knockdown pressure, not realizing they were actually delayed wakeups (lag makes it hard to distinguish). When I went offline, it was such a bummer to keep getting hit by stuff I thought I could wake up out of lol. So, just remember to practice your timings offline before a tournament.

 

[16 Bit]

It's not as easy as delay or not delay, like there's this binary system where you're picking from two different timings. It's very viable to have a timing that'll cover multiple timings for multiple wakeups. Like against Raven because my timing on f+1 will be different the timing the Raven player needs to use changes too. I can get a timing that blows up all but extremely delayed Lift but the next time only early push will work. It's not as if Raven getting bodied on KD is a bill, she can just use delayed wakeup and it's fine. These changes in timing are so subtle I doubt it's possible to have a real meta behind it.

 

[Big Pampering]

this is good stuff and interesting, I wonder if wakeups will play as big a role in mk x as it does in injustice.

 

[BillStickers]

It's not as easy as delay or not delay, like there's this binary system where you're picking from two different timings. It's very viable to have a timing that'll cover multiple timings for multiple wakeups. Like against Raven because my timing on f+1 will be different the timing the Raven player needs to use changes too. I can get a timing that blows up all but extremely delayed Lift but the next time only early push will work. It's not as if Raven getting bodied on KD is a bill, she can just use delayed wakeup and it's fine. These changes in timing are so subtle I doubt it's possible to have a real meta behind it.

IMO a lot of the knockdown meta in Injustice is kind of based on intuition and matchup experience anyway since every character knocks down with different distances and frame advantages, then there's all these other variables like hitboxes, gravity scaling, and active frame durations. I think there *is* a meta behind it, but it's so nuanced that it's hard to explain effectively on paper; you just sort of have to figure it out.

 

[STRYKIE]

MASSIVE blowup for players who don't know about this. Seriously we have so many that spew matchup numbers and tier lists who don't understand the mechanics of the game.

Not sure if he plays Injustice but @Seven (the Ermac player from the west coast) immediately sprang into my head reading this lol.