ryublaze
Noob
Ok before you read any further i don't want to sell any bills here...just want to open this thread for discussion. This has been a topic i've been discussing with many people for a while now, and half of them seem to agree and the other half seem to disagree. IMO this is important because most players do not delay their wake-up attacks and it could be game changing in certain match-ups. Please don't blow me up, let's discuss.
@Espio @MajinBerserker @RunwayMafia @Ecodus @GGA Saucy Jack @Laos_boy @Drizzle @Red Reaper @Doombawkz
First, just to show what a delayed wake-up attack looks like:
You can clearly see that I'm timing the b1u2 to stuff the wake-up attack, but then I delay the wake-up to beat out the b1u2 (Notice that I'm doing this on CATWOMAN who is believed to be unable to wake-up). Try this yourself in training mode, set the AI to record them trying to stuff your wake-up then keep changing the timing of your wake-up until you find a way out. You might have to wait until the last few frames where you can input your wake-up attack (this is a fully delayed wake-up). If your delayed wake-up attack is getting stuffed, then just do an early wake-up and you'll get out. The only exception to this that I've found is Doomsday's Earthshaker which will stuff wake-ups regardless of them being delayed or not because of how fast the 2nd hit comes out.
If you keep varying the timing of your wake-up then you're making your opponent have to guess the timing to stuff it. You put yourself into a high risk/high reward situation rather than a high risk/no reward situation because if you guess right on the wake-up timing you get a full combo rather than just blocking high/low. This is the reason why I'm able to get up with Doomsday's MB Venom whenever I play @Drizzle / Loiigagger or how I'm able to wake-up with Flash's Lightning Kick and get 50% off a wake-up.
I'm not sure how else I can prove this, some people still don't believe in delaying wake-ups WITH CATWOMAN/RAVEN. I just think more people need to go into the lab and hammer it out themselves. I'd rather believe what I've found in the lab myself rather than listening to what the majority of players say.
*****EDIT*****
It looks like people are misinterpreting this thread. I'm not saying people don't know what delayed wake-ups are; I'm saying that I don't see many people do them, and from my testing I have always thought that characters like catwoman/raven can get out of vortexes by changing their wake-up timings (that is what I was trying to show in the above video, notice CATWOMAN in the video hurr durr). HOWEVER, there is the argument that you can time your attack so that it stuffs BOTH the regular and delayed wake-up attacks. That is what I'm trying to debate/find out. So take what you will from this thread, I personally find this information useful.
*****DOUBLE EDIT*****
So I managed to test this with Slips and we can confirm that catwoman/raven can indeed wake-up out of certain knockdown "vortexes" if timed right. There might be a possibility that a specific timing can stuff both a regular and delayed wake-up, such as being a just-frame but it would still be too inconsistent to actually vortex them. We think it's character specific, like Scorpion can vortex her on knockdown but Deathstroke can't (however if Deathstroke does the meaty stuffing tech below he actually can vortex her in the corner).
---
Ok well if you are noticing that they are delaying their wake-up attack, I actually found a counter to this. Here is a new way to stuff wake-up attacks which also completely avoids delayed wake-ups:
What you do is find a fast multi-hitting move and time it so that it hits as a meaty (so that it hits on the first available frame(s) that they can block the move). Since it's a meaty they can't delay their wake-up otherwise they'll just get hit. What happens is that the 1st hit will go through the invincibility frames of the wake-up, then the 2nd hit will stuff it as soon as the invincibility frames wear off. This works against all characters with easily stuffable wake-ups (such as Catwoman, Raven, Flash and Doomsday). EDIT: Also found that this works on Aquaman and Zod too (harder to do on these characters since their moves come out faster, but if timed right they can't get up).
If this is old then please forgive me. I actually just found this out a few days ago, apparently all my mains can do this lol.
Some more examples of meaty stuffing:
Beating Aquaman's Wake-ups
Deathstroke can also do b22 xx Sword Spin, but on Aquaman he has to do b2 xx Sword Spin because it comes out faster.
Beating Zod's Wake-ups
Flash d1d2
Wonder Woman 33
Unfortunately Doomsday can MB the Venom right away to beat it. 
Catwoman f11
Doomsday can do this too with Earthshaker but I didn't make a video because he can stuff them normally anyways. Other characters like MMH might be able to do this as well. Usually it works with moves where the 2nd hit has a startup of around 12 frames or less.
EDIT: By the way, this could also be useful for playing mindgames because it forces your opponent to do an early wake-up attack. If they are waiting to do a delayed wake-up attack then they're going to get hit by the meaty. The window to input a wake-up attack is smaller too so they might mess up or be too late to input their wake-up.
@Espio @MajinBerserker @RunwayMafia @Ecodus @GGA Saucy Jack @Laos_boy @Drizzle @Red Reaper @Doombawkz
First, just to show what a delayed wake-up attack looks like:
If you keep varying the timing of your wake-up then you're making your opponent have to guess the timing to stuff it. You put yourself into a high risk/high reward situation rather than a high risk/no reward situation because if you guess right on the wake-up timing you get a full combo rather than just blocking high/low. This is the reason why I'm able to get up with Doomsday's MB Venom whenever I play @Drizzle / Loiigagger or how I'm able to wake-up with Flash's Lightning Kick and get 50% off a wake-up.
I'm not sure how else I can prove this, some people still don't believe in delaying wake-ups WITH CATWOMAN/RAVEN. I just think more people need to go into the lab and hammer it out themselves. I'd rather believe what I've found in the lab myself rather than listening to what the majority of players say.
*****EDIT*****
It looks like people are misinterpreting this thread. I'm not saying people don't know what delayed wake-ups are; I'm saying that I don't see many people do them, and from my testing I have always thought that characters like catwoman/raven can get out of vortexes by changing their wake-up timings (that is what I was trying to show in the above video, notice CATWOMAN in the video hurr durr). HOWEVER, there is the argument that you can time your attack so that it stuffs BOTH the regular and delayed wake-up attacks. That is what I'm trying to debate/find out. So take what you will from this thread, I personally find this information useful.
*****DOUBLE EDIT*****
So I managed to test this with Slips and we can confirm that catwoman/raven can indeed wake-up out of certain knockdown "vortexes" if timed right. There might be a possibility that a specific timing can stuff both a regular and delayed wake-up, such as being a just-frame but it would still be too inconsistent to actually vortex them. We think it's character specific, like Scorpion can vortex her on knockdown but Deathstroke can't (however if Deathstroke does the meaty stuffing tech below he actually can vortex her in the corner).
---
Ok well if you are noticing that they are delaying their wake-up attack, I actually found a counter to this. Here is a new way to stuff wake-up attacks which also completely avoids delayed wake-ups:
If this is old then please forgive me. I actually just found this out a few days ago, apparently all my mains can do this lol.
Some more examples of meaty stuffing:
Beating Aquaman's Wake-ups
Beating Zod's Wake-ups
Flash d1d2
Wonder Woman 33
Catwoman f11
Doomsday can do this too with Earthshaker but I didn't make a video because he can stuff them normally anyways. Other characters like MMH might be able to do this as well. Usually it works with moves where the 2nd hit has a startup of around 12 frames or less.
EDIT: By the way, this could also be useful for playing mindgames because it forces your opponent to do an early wake-up attack. If they are waiting to do a delayed wake-up attack then they're going to get hit by the meaty. The window to input a wake-up attack is smaller too so they might mess up or be too late to input their wake-up.
Last edited:
