Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

[9.95]

It seems like an unnecessary gimmick. It will work on people early who don't know it's a high, but once everyone knows, it would be pointless. If the first hit was a low, then the last hit was a high, then I would understand and it would make more sense. But I think giving one combo string a low and an overhead is overkill on a character like Scorpion who doesn't need it. So I think he should get the knee starter back of HK, HP, HP, U+LP, and/or HK, HP, U+LP. This makes more sense and would be more useful.

With that buff, he doesn't need much more, Scorpion is already a solid character. So, giving him the ability jump after a spear would be fine. I don't think he needs a forward teleport, tbh. I think the move is good in MKT but I don't think it's necessary in TE when taking all the changes into consideration as well as the buffs I just mentioned.

You just still want HS to be top tier, lol.

That's why the overhead doesn't matter. May as well put it in if all it will be is a gimmick and MAYBE good for one forced mistake. That could be the difference between a win and a loss for him.

I also don't think any strings should have lows and overheads in the same combo.

Once the FTP is in, he will be better, but as of now all his "buffs" were really only lateral movement. He's still the same useless character compared to HS.

 

[9.95]

Sonya, Kano, Sindel, and Stryker then? Maybe Sektor too, probably not though

Sonya only needs a life lead and then she can contain with her sweep and cr.lk.

Kano's knives can contain, plus he controls the air with his air throw.

Sindel you can't jump at and she can now vary the height of her flight.

Stryker needs SOMETHING. The grenades on hit and block lead to nothing but pushback and he needs to be mid screen or closer to threaten the riot gun. That's why I suggested the roll.

 

[Juggs]

You just still want HS to be top tier, lol.

I think no matter what it would be hard for HSmoke to not be top tier. The character plays the game well and has virtually no weaknesses, that's why he's my main. In Vanilla he's God Tier, in TE he is not. I have no fealty to him, however. And every time HSmoke is brought up I say he doesn't need any buffs or anything else, he could realistically be nerfed in fact. I don't know what I said in what you quoted that had to do with HSmoke though.

That's why the overhead doesn't matter. May as well put it in if all it will be is a gimmick and MAYBE good for one forced mistake. That could be the difference between a win and a loss for him.

I also don't think any strings should have lows and overheads in the same combo.

It's not really a buff then, it's just a gimmick. Why put it in if you agree that it probably won't help much? Would it not be better to give him the knee starter instead?

I don't get the line of reasoning that seems to always be used against me that I'm biased because I "main" certain characters. I use every character. I want every character to be able to compete within reason. Scorpion is not a character I believe should be focused on right now as he's already a good character. Even with that in mind I say the buffs mentioned of the knee starter and jumping after a spear are within that reason but not entirely necessary. Even though I say I don't feel they're entirely necessary, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be implemented or ultimately are not necessary, it's just my opinion.

 

[Shock]

Remember that one of the main goals in mind is to get new people to play the games, which means that newer concepts, like overheads which can be applied in the exact same way as sweeps for example, might be more attractive. Players, no matter how fast their reaction time, will still get nabbed by a sweep from time to time even though it's completely reaction blockable. For now, until overheads are actually implemented, I think we can hold off discussion on them. Most likely overheads will be applied to a jumping starter attacks at most in terms of a universal overhead. Otherwise, they will be applied where beneficial. Remember that blocking in MK is pretty precise on a manual level since there's no proximity blocking it makes quick changes in blocking it a little less effective in general. I'm not sure what making someone stand up during blocking will do exactly since what you do after depends on the character's options. I'm sure we'll figure out how to implement it to make it feel like it's supposed to be there. One of the biggest complaints I hear from top level players of any game that I try to get into UMK3 is that there's no reason to ever block high.

 

[9.95]

I don't get the line of reasoning that seems to always be used against me that I'm biased because I "main" certain characters.

Because:

Seriously...I was breaking your balls and kidding lol.

 

[Juggs]

Because:

Seriously...I was breaking your balls and kidding lol.

I know, but almost every single person has said that at this point, lol. I guess that's the joke.

 

[DWednesday]

I know, but almost every single person has said that at this point, lol. I guess that's the joke.

I've never said that, however, I am a scrub

 

[Juggs]

One of the biggest complaints I hear from top level players of any game that I try to get into UMK3 is that there's no reason to ever block high.

Universal overheads such as a JK and JP are definitely something that should happen. I also think along with this, if you jump and do an attack, there should be recovery when you land. Just like in almost every other fighter, a jump attack has recovery frames when landing and isn't instant recovery. Sometimes you will see someone try to aaSweep and it works, but it's blockable. This is known as trip guard in other fighters. This would really improve the game and not make it such a jump fest. Empty jumps would actually be useful as well. Of course, I'm not talking about super long recovery, just enough to where it can be punished with a sweep, HK, and quick specials. This wouldn't severely nerf jumps to where they're worthless, but it would help with the risk/reward jumps currently lack. I mean, anti airing is still a thing, but they are mostly inconsistent and you're not risking too much for the reward. Even a HK isn't 100% reliable as it sometimes gets stuffed.

 

[dubson]

@9.95 just informed me that Scorpions Axe now hits mid… IDK why someone didn't just tell me that before, lmao.

Disregard all the concern about hitting out of a knee.. That's all I wanted for him was to be able to get decent/comparable damage out of mid!!!

Still would be nice for mix-up purposes… as the 4 hit kick combo isn't really going to be used now? And is so weak?

 

[dubson]

I know, but almost every single person has said that at this point, lol. I guess that's the joke.

You have always been excellent with H Smoke, and Ermac. Those were your 2 boys back in the day, grey n red.

I've been waiting for you to get back in on this.

 

[dubson]

It seems like an unnecessary gimmick. It will work on people early who don't know it's a high, but once everyone knows, it would be pointless. If the first hit was a low, then the last hit was a high, then I would understand and it would make more sense. But I think giving one combo string a low and an overhead is overkill on a character like Scorpion who doesn't need it. So I think he should get the knee starter back of HK, HP, HP, U+LP, and/or HK, HP, U+LP. This makes more sense and would be more useful.

With that buff, he doesn't need much more, Scorpion is already a solid character. So, giving him the ability jump after a spear would be fine. I don't think he needs a forward teleport, tbh. I think the move is good in MKT but I don't think it's necessary in TE when taking all the changes into consideration as well as the buffs I just mentioned.

I have to agree. I think he should get it out of the Knee. Its just better than an elbow/axe/mid, his mixup game is out of his kick combos (in VUMK3). you can end it on 2,3,4 and teleport outta there and mix them up. getting it out of the knee would be so great for him. and his mixup game. it's gotta feel really weird and unlike Scorpion hitting it out of Axe opposed to a knee. It does make him different from Ermac and H Smoke in that way but I don't think its right for him. I think its ok to make him like them there…

I will say that H Smoke having Invisibility is very…. interesting…. to say the least…. I kind of think just Reptile and Robo should have that… just with a timer

i agree, just give his teleport speed back, make his damage comparable to h smoke (and fair), with his new combo out of a knee and test out of that opposed to the axe imo. or both or whatever you feel is fair. thats literally like all he needs…. also give his old teleport damage on block back. i really don't think they should be able to jump around after spears but we will see… probably especially with his VUMK3 teleport speed.

he still has air throw correct?

overheads i do think should be added in the game but like Shock said I think for good reason should be on the latter side of priority/developing

Universal overheads such as a JK and JP are definitely something that should happen. I also think along with this, if you jump and do an attack, there should be recovery when you land. Just like in almost every other fighter, a jump attack has recovery frames when landing and isn't instant recovery. Sometimes you will see someone try to aaSweep and it works, but it's blockable. This is known as trip guard in other fighters. This would really improve the game and not make it such a jump fest. Empty jumps would actually be useful as well. Of course, I'm not talking about super long recovery, just enough to where it can be punished with a sweep, HK, and quick specials. This wouldn't severely nerf jumps to where they're worthless, but it would help with the risk/reward jumps currently lack. I mean, anti airing is still a thing, but they are mostly inconsistent and you're not risking too much for the reward. Even a HK isn't 100% reliable as it sometimes gets stuffed.

I like how everything is now but i have to admit I also like the idea of implementing overheads

im not yet sure about jumps though. just because it changes the whole anti air game with normals, uppercuts, etc… that might be too much… but i think adding standing overheads first strategically and carefully to certain characters would be very nice

 

[Konqrr]

Scorpion's Elbow (Axe) hitbox will be adjusted to fix the issue with it connecting when it shouldn't when he doesn't have FA. It also will likely not stay a mid. Kabal's Elbow was a mid in UMK3 and is now a high... @dubson

Also I just tested a version where you can jump after a spear hits... Scorpion and HSmoke are ok but Smoke is fucking retarded XD He gets easy 46% from a naked harpoon anywhere by just doing a SUJK into the 5-hit, but gets close to 70% in the corner... it's so dumb haha

 

[dubson]

Scorpion's Elbow (Axe) hitbox will be adjusted to fix the issue with it connecting when it shouldn't when he doesn't have FA. It also will likely not stay a mid. Kabal's Elbow was a mid in UMK3 and is now a high... @dubson

Also I just tested a version where you can jump after a spear hits... Scorpion and HSmoke are ok but Smoke is fucking retarded XD He gets easy 46% from a naked harpoon anywhere by just doing a SUJK into the 5-hit, but gets close to 70% in the corner... it's so dumb haha

For me with Kabal… I always mix up my pressure between Knee and Elbow anyway because his offensive pressure is so insane and they both lead to a pop-up into good damage and on the advantage, so that hitting mid plus his elbow does seem like much, especially for what it lead into…

but Scorp needs decent damage out of mid somehow...

 

[Konqrr]

For me with Kabal… I always mix up my pressure between Knee and Elbow anyway because his offensive pressure is so insane and they both lead to a pop-up into good damage and on the advantage, so that hitting mid plus his elbow does seem like much, especially for what it lead into…

but Scorp needs decent damage out of mid somehow...

The problem lies in always using HP,HP,U+LP as the go-to move always and forever. Why ever use anything else when you can fish for the launcher every time? Yes you don't get full combo damage with knees, but 23-24% is not worthless. I mean Kabal now gets 21% with his old combo from a spin which can be turned into around 32% with some effort and his new tools.

Scorpion is not about landing that one hit and getting 40% every time he touches you. He is all about hit and run, always has been since MK1. He is not a bad character at all. Block an unsafe move? You get the launcher or spear into full combo.

High level UMK3/TE is not about hitting your opponent letting go of block during pressure, it's about creating opportunities to get damage and opening up your opponent with superior footsies and spacing. Scorpion has very good mobility and is a very good character. Once he gets his FTP, he will be gdlk.

 

[dubson]

The problem lies in always using HP,HP,U+LP as the go-to move always and forever. Why ever use anything else when you can fish for the launcher every time? Yes you don't get full combo damage with knees, but 23-24% is not worthless. I mean Kabal now gets 21% with his old combo from a spin which can be turned into around 32% with some effort and his new tools.

Scorpion is not about landing that one hit and getting 40% every time he touches you. He is all about hit and run, always has been since MK1. He is not a bad character at all. Block an unsafe move? You get the launcher or spear into full combo.

High level UMK3/TE is not about hitting your opponent letting go of block during pressure, it's about creating opportunities to get damage and opening up your opponent with superior footsies and spacing. Scorpion has very good mobility and is a very good character. Once he gets his FTP, he will be gdlk.

Great post and perspective. I like the variety. Every character in every game has bread n butters though. I think H Smoke and Ermac having that heavy damage advantage out of mid and Scorpion not will always really hurt him but we will see. 24% is not worthless but its a part time job compared to H Smoke and Ermac's damage out of mid.

24% is kind of worthless compared to H Smoke and Ermacs damage out of mid... and thats what Scorpion needs to compete on at least their level. I would never pick him, with 24% out of mid there is no reason when there is H Smoke and Ermac? As well as their pop-up/corner damage potential? IDK if it is still in, but that 43% corner combo (On REO's video) with Scorp that ended with the air throw was nice though.

Why not just give him his old teleport speed opposed to the FTP? His FTP has never been a move until that happened and imo for good reason, like you said he has always been hit and run and that move completely changes his dynamics lol...

 

[Konqrr]

Great post and perspective. I like the variety. Every character in every game has bread n butters though. I think H Smoke and Ermac having that potential out of mid and Scorpion won't will always really hurt him but we will see. 24% is not worthless but its a part time job compared to H Smoke and Ermac's damage out of mid.

Why not just give him his old teleport speed opposed to the FTP? His FTP has never been a move until that happened and imo for good reason, like you said he has always been hit and run and that move completely changes his dynamics lol...

He's getting both the old disable timer and FTP, I posted this earlier ^_^

 

[dubson]

He's getting both the old disable timer and FTP, I posted this earlier ^_^

Oh wow….. that is very kool

keep us posted on how you feel about this asap please…

 

[Shock]

Kabal has cool ass shit now, like a lot of people will do a JK, spin, then aaHPHP, JK AFB for 35%, but you can do JK, Spin, aaHPHP, Ground Saw, aaHPHP, JK, AFB for 46% on some characters, modify it accordingly for a little less. Be smart with his combo hit counts, off a spin followed by a JPS, don't always do the 5 hit combo, aaHP, JK, AFB, do spin, JPS, 3 hit pop up, ground saw, juggle for a little more damage. Abuse that saw, it's SO good now. Off a stray aaGround Saw, try for spin, aaHPHP, and another Ground Saw. I wanna see some hype combos with this character. It feels so right.

 

[dubson]

Kabal has cool ass shit now, like a lot of people will do a JK, spin, then aaHPHP, JK AFB for 35%, but you can do JK, Spin, aaHPHP, Ground Saw, aaHPHP, JK, AFB for 46% on some characters, modify it accordingly for a little less. Be smart with his combo hit counts, off a spin followed by a JPS, don't always do the 5 hit combo, aaHP, JK, AFB, do spin, JPS, 3 hit pop up, ground saw, juggle for a little more damage. Abuse that saw, it's SO good now. Off a stray aaGround Saw, try for spin, aaHPHP, and another Ground Saw. I wanna see some hype combos with this character. It feels so right.

Hell yeah, that sounds sick as hell.

Kant wait to get my hands on this game…

@9.95 is gonna help me get a computer/set-up going

 

[CL-SubZero]

Maybe Classic Sub-Zero can have his slide like the super slide in Mythologies.
Slide the opponent of his feet and then turns around so you can go for a freeze or ground freeze.

and all I want for Christmas is h.smoke's invisibility pose changes. Please give him back his own pose or reptile's invisibility pose.​

 

[DWednesday]

I will say that H Smoke having Invisibility is very…. interesting…. to say the least…. I kind of think just Reptile and Robo should have that… just with a timer

I just don't agree with this logic- "If two invisibility characters have it, no one else should". That's not right... it's not that black and white.
(I'm just messing bro )

and all I want for Christmas is h.smoke's invisibility pose changes. Please give him back his own pose or reptile's invisibility pose.

But the current pose is so good... (Not even sarcasm)

...but Smoke is fucking retarded XD He gets easy 46% from a naked harpoon anywhere by just doing a SUJK into the 5-hit, but gets close to 70% in the corner... it's so dumb haha

What was the 70ish combo? Spear, TPU, JK, HP, Spear, SUJK, 5-hit, crLK?

 

[tehdrewsus]

How about his spear throw animation, without the spear, into invisibility? If you look closely it's almost like he's giving the finger to his opponent.

No facetiousness at all in this post. 110% serious about making that his invisibility animation.

 

[RiBBz22]

How about his spear throw animation, without the spear, into invisibility? If you look closely it's almost like he's giving the finger to his opponent.

No facetiousness at all in this post. 110% serious about making that his invisibility animation.

Probably would be too good because you could basically use it as a bait, IE fake spear invis into spear if your opponent takes the bait.

 

[tehdrewsus]

Probably would be too good because you could basically use it as a bait, IE fake spear invis into spear if your opponent takes the bait.

Very true. And it's not like he needs it. LOL

Could do that for reptile

 

[dreemernj]

Probably would be too good because you could basically use it as a bait, IE fake spear invis into spear if your opponent takes the bait.

Aww, now I kind of want there to be fake out moves like SFA. Ryu's fake fireball, Ken's fake roll, Sagat's fake knee. They were fun.

Now I want Sheeva to have a fake fireball.