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Johnny Cage matchup chart

Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
R.E.O. said:
No, he didn't play like Broly. There's a night and day difference between Broly's Sindel and other Sindels just by visuals. I've never played or seen a Sindel that can do d+4~levi and b+1~levi so fluid and consistent like Broly can. Heck, can any of them even do it in practice mode 10 out of 10? I would be amazed at that feat alone, let alone in actual tournament matches. Broly's insane movement with her also reeks of the by product to what you ascend to when you ONLY invest time into a character as a pure main after too many hours of experience.

Mr. Mileena was definitely the best Sindel in the US scene, however. It's just he was more of a Kitana main and Sindel wasn't his dedicated sole focus so that's why their skill on the characters are far apart. I do remember him making that "mini Kabal" comment which is kind of funny if you think about it.
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I agree, all of us Sindel mains here don't have the execution to do B1 and D4 levi cancels often. Watching Oscar's Sindel is beautiful lol.
It's almost like watching a whole new fighter, the first time I saw his videos I was very impressed
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Mr. Mileena said:
I agree, all of us Sindel mains here don't have the execution to do B1 and D4 levi cancels often. Watching Oscar's Sindel is beautiful lol.
It's almost like watching a whole new fighter, the first time I saw his videos I was very impressed
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watch his jade
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Master
Who the hell is this Broly guy and did he go to the ETC McFly school of execution? That was unreal. Honestly, I think this is the most I've ever been impressed out of watching a set of casuals, just on execution alone. I only saw the first few games against Gross so I can't comment on his fundamentals or anything, but as far as taking a character to its limit and exploring some previously unexplored potential, this is awesome.
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Master
OK I watched some more. If Broly actually worked on his counterpoking he'd be insane. The online influence is clear since he was trying to jump out of frame traps and press buttons after being hit with a D4. He also jumps around way too much. If he works on improving these aspects and manages to combine them with that ridiculous Sindel pressure and execution he'd be amazing.
 
The_REAL_xVAPORx

The_REAL_xVAPORx

smoke reset bot
Kakashi said:
check it out:

These videos do not demonstrate that Oscar would win, but at least you can see the level.


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the guy definitely has a solid grasp of sindel, the downfall here is the cage player doesnt. this is what moderately high level players look like when they are trying to learn / re-learn a MU on the fly. he froze up because he didnt understand the levi cancels. a top cage player would not be kept in that pressure for that long. i'll give him props for execution though, idk why but cancels turn me on O_O
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
coolwhip said:
OK I watched some more. If Broly actually worked on his counterpoking he'd be insane. The online influence is clear since he was trying to jump out of frame traps and press buttons after being hit with a D4. He also jumps around way too much. If he works on improving these aspects and manages to combine them with that ridiculous Sindel pressure and execution he'd be amazing.
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same could be said about how Gross was playing as well. I counted at least 4 times where he ate the cartwheel because he didn't block proper.

It is clear in both videos. Broly has execution coming out of his ears, but he also has an unfamiliar matchup going in his favor.

But still..... he makes her look viable, and that is enough.
 
Kakashi

Kakashi

Noob
Peckapowa said:
You see i was hesitant to call it a 7-3 because i felt sindel is a underrated slash unexplored... now you show me videos of an alien from outerspace doing just frame down 4 levi cancels and i am willing to reconsider my positions and apologize for saying i would wax his ass. This is somewhat how i envisioned her looking at her frames and nomrals in training mode at the highest level... but that cage isn't as good as mine, not nearly as good.

Most of these numbers i was operating under the premise of i think these characters weren't fully tapped... which i why i put reptile and smoke as 5-5s

Reptile at the highest level is a space control god, and at the highest level cage becomes much more limited... Still sindel has serious issues dealing with cage pressure, and personally i am very good at zoning and dealing with it. I am a neutral game guy. I also know sindel's frame data... I like my chances vs any sindel
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As I explained in the videos that they did not prove anything, but if you can observe the level of Oscar Broly. I maintain my position that Sindel would win and I'm willing to prove it to anyone. Too bad I'm too far away.

I know this may sound pretentious but just saying what I think.

There are many things I would like to say to make you understand me but as my main language is Spanish, is very difficult. :(
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Tom Brady said:
Cage vs SZ is not 5-5.. Its a slight adv for SZ
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I can see it (only because i am trying to downplay cage), but i didn't give it a 4-6... Always though cage punishes too hard (when you consider his pressure) and the matchup was all turtling and working whoever has the lifelead to the corner. Then again, i always felt throwing a fireball with cage on the right read has been worth it, but maybe too risky.

what do @GGA Dizzy @curbolicious @a foxy grampa think about the matchup?? I know foxy and curbo are perennial upplayers.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Champion
Peckapowa said:
I can see it (only because i am trying to downplay cage), but i didn't give it a 4-6... Always though cage punishes too hard (when you consider his pressure) and the matchup was all turtling and working whoever has the lifelead to the corner. Then again, i always felt throwing a fireball with cage on the right read has been worth it, but maybe too risky.

what do @GGA Dizzy @curbolicious @a foxy grampa think about the matchup?? I know foxy and curbo are perennial upplayers.
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Throwing a fireball is a terrible idea. EX or normal, its easy to slide under on reaction.

It is a lame life lead match, both have the ability to make a comeback though . Cage with is pressure when he gets in and Sub-Zero if he gets Cage in the corner, especially if the Cage player has no meter.

Its a slight adv SZ. I'd say more of a 5.5-4.5 adv for Sub.


Now.. if we are going by how the mu would look today then its 10-0 Cage lol. I haven't been in shape to beat anyone in over a year and I don't know of any SZ player who plays enough to fight this mu at high level today.
 
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cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
long time pecka my old buddy , but i think your slightly off in few mus here . i dont think any cage in the world knows the smoke, kl, skarlett mu like me. eddy wang is right 5-5 skarlett cage . kl cage 5-5 .maybe just maybe 4.5 . 5.5 cage favor. smoke vs jc is pretty bad for smoke 6-4 maybe but i think 6.5 , 3.5 . no decent johnny cage should lose to smoke unless obviously gets lucky sb then resets till dead . you know how well i know that mu lol. also jc vs jc is player dependant . its not 55 . the importance of p1 is pretty important in this mu . not enough to make it 6 4 though but deffo not even! , sonya i would agree either way pecka . 6 - 4 or 6.5 sonya advantage maybe . there are a few others you got wrong . lemme know if you want me to elaborate on any. oh and sub vs cage is 6-4 cage advantage. no doubt about that
 
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D

Death

Warrior
I like this list a lot. I do think at the highest level Cage and Sub is even. I do think Cage beats KL 6-4. I hate playing good Cages with Lao. Loses to Sonya 4-6. Kabal and Freddy are 3-7 and 2-8 vs Kenshi. I'm starting to think Cage beats Kitana slightly.
 
xHolmesyx

xHolmesyx

Noob
Soul Bound X said:
Tbh. The only people I think who actually know what "Bird Lao" is, is foxy and people who have played him. Until I see a cage player go up against foxy's lao and make it look 6-4 , it'll always be atleast 5-5 to me. Unless that happens or a foxy grampa himself says he thinks its 6-4 then its 5-5 to me
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Lao vs cage is 5.5 Cage favour I think. Bird lao is a very simple concept and from my experience of using lao and watching people play Foxys lao, most people don't deal with Bird lao properly and get punished for doing silly things such as trying to uppercut and neutral jump punch which both get punished easily.
 
xHolmesyx

xHolmesyx

Noob
Sub zero vs cage is at least 5.5 - 4.5 cage adv I personally think 6-4. Any cage that thinks it's 5-5 or sub zero advantage is not playing the match up properly in my opinion.

I think Sonya vs cage is 6-4 sonya and 6.5 sonya if sonya is player 1. Sonya being player 1 makes a big difference in that match up.

Cage beats Jax at least 6.5, I think 7-3. Cage outfootsies Jax very well. D4 is a very good tool in this match up and the fact that it avoids the ground pound is ridiculous. Jax can not touch cage with f4 into anything... Or he gets punished badly. When cage gets in it's pretty much game over. One thing which is absolutely ridiculous in this match up is the fact that any time cage reads ex overhead whilst he's pressuring Jax, he can dash through it and full combo punish it with b3. I believe cage is one of the only characters who can do this.
 
coolwhip

coolwhip

Master
xHolmesyx said:
Sub zero vs cage is at least 5.5 - 4.5 cage adv I personally think 6-4. Any cage that thinks it's 5-5 or sub zero advantage is not playing the match up properly in my opinion.

I think Sonya vs cage is 6-4 sonya and 6.5 sonya if sonya is player 1. Sonya being player 1 makes a big difference in that match up.

Cage beats Jax at least 6.5, I think 7-3. Cage outfootsies Jax very well. D4 is a very good tool in this match up and the fact that it avoids the ground pound is ridiculous. Jax can not touch cage with f4 into anything... Or he gets punished badly. When cage gets in it's pretty much game over. One thing which is absolutely ridiculous in this match up is the fact that any time cage reads ex overhead whilst he's pressuring Jax, he can dash through it and full combo punish it with b3. I believe cage is one of the only characters who can do this.
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Kung Lao's F3 avoids Jax's ex overhead too, you can cancel it into spin by reversing inputs (because after the F3 Kung Lao will be in the opposite direction) and you'll spin Jax while he's in recovery.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Death said:
I like this list a lot. I do think at the highest level Cage and Sub is even. I do think Cage beats KL 6-4. I hate playing good Cages with Lao. Loses to Sonya 4-6. Kabal and Freddy are 3-7 and 2-8 vs Kenshi. I'm starting to think Cage beats Kitana slightly.
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I dont think he beats her because her damage is really high up there.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Baraka: 6-4

Cyber Sub: 6-4

Cyrax: 4-6

Ermac: 6-4

Jax: 7-3

Jade: 7-3

Freddy Krueger : 3-7

Cage: 5-5

Kabal: 3-7

Kano: 8-2

Kenshi: 3-7

Kitana: 5-5

Kratos: 5-5

Kung Lao: 5-5

Liu Kang: 6-4

Mileena: 7-3

Nightwolf: 7-3

Noob: 7-3

Quan Chi: 7-3

Raiden: 6-4

Reptile: 6-4

Rain: 6-4

Scorpion: 6-4

Sektor: 6-4

Shang: 5-5

Sheeva: 7-3

Sindel: 7-3

Skarlet: 4-6

Smoke: 5-5

Sonya: 4-6

Stryker: 8-2

Sub-Zero: 5-5

Cage is fucked up
 
Soul Bound X

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
xHolmesyx said:
Lao vs cage is 5.5 Cage favour I think. Bird lao is a very simple concept and from my experience of using lao and watching people play Foxys lao, most people don't deal with Bird lao properly and get punished for doing silly things such as trying to uppercut and neutral jump punch which both get punished easily.
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It is a simple concept and those silly things you mentioned at the end are not the greatest ideas to do against bird lao like you said, but when you bring bird lao up, most people on this site will recommend doing those silly things . "Just uppercut" and they'll direct you to a video of dizzy uppercutting forever king who doesn't even play lao like foxy. So yeah it is a simple concept, but people still don't grasp it when you explain it to them. And 5.5 cages favor, yeah that sounds about right I guess.
 
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