Who is the biggest upplayer for each character?

[Johnny Based Cage]

His jump ins are better than hers(in this mu). His AA is godlike and he makes her play an additional layer of guessing even if he fails to AA and blocks.

No, he uses barge and d+2 to scare her from doing jump back 2. Once she's conditioned to play the footsies game he can approach.

No one is saying it's completely hopeless. But it's very, very difficult.

Doesn't her jb2 significantly out-range his d2 and isn't Barge the most reactable move in the game? What does Bane do outside of jump range to approach without getting whiff-punished or at least checked on approach?

 

[16 Bit]

Doesn't her jb2 significantly out-range his d2 and isn't Barge the most reactable move in the game? What does Bane do outside of jump range to approach without getting whiff-punished or at least checked on approach?

You use d+2 when she's at low negative frames and close-ish range. He'll knock her out of the air as she is jumping away. For example, after a blocked Cat Claws. You can use dash up d+2 on a read from her f+1 range.

I told you. He walks. Then at f+1 range he has an armored command grab that reaches. She has to take action at this range. He doesn't.

 

[Red Reaper]

See that's how beat them. But what do you do once he gets the life lead, that doesn't work anymore. And that's when the struggle begins

It's simple!

You just pop trait and rawr....


....oh wait level 3. NVM...

 

[Sajam]

I think my least favorite thing about discussing MUs in Injustice while I played was the fixation on the MU number. I sat there trying to explain the Grundy MU and people cared more about the fact that my number wasn't right. Like I have offline experience playing Tyrant in like 1000 games, since him and I would sit at super playing 100 games an hour and discussing the MU. Who cares what the MU number is, it's more important to discuss the actual MU and how it plays out.

It's pretty clear that Bane shits on Catwoman, whether it's really fucked up or super extra fucked up doesn't matter. What matters is that at a high level you will never consistently win bad MUs unless there is a huge difference between the level of skill between the players, an incredible lack of MU knowledge, or you play like an absolute god in a MU that is hard but not impossible.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I think my least favorite thing about discussing MUs in Injustice while I played was the fixation on the MU number. I sat there trying to explain the Grundy MU and people cared more about the fact that my number wasn't right. Like I have offline experience playing Tyrant in like 1000 games, since him and I would sit at super playing 100 games an hour and discussing the MU. Who cares what the MU number is, it's more important to discuss the actual MU and how it plays out.

It's pretty clear that Bane shits on Catwoman, whether it's really fucked up or super extra fucked up doesn't matter. What matters is that at a high level you will never consistently win bad MUs unless there is a huge difference between the level of skill between the players, an incredible lack of MU knowledge, or you play like an absolute god in a MU that is hard but not impossible.

Tyrant also got blown up by NW at a major but BDK did work at the clan tournament against a Nightwing recently. Someone obviously isn't playing the matchup right but it helps the scene grow to try and tackle matchups like that rather than just write them off bc so and so said they're almost unwinnable.

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Tyrant also got blown up by NW at a major but BDK did work at the clan tournament against a Nightwing recently. Someone obviously isn't playing the matchup right but it helps the scene grow to try and tackle matchups like that rather than just write them off bc so and so said they're almost unwinnable.

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

We give up on people who want to discuss insanity by taking an online player word vs a 3x Evo placer and a player w 29+ top 8s

GTFO here

Hence illuminati is born

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Tyrant also got blown up by NW at a major but BDK did work at the clan tournament against a Nightwing recently. Someone obviously isn't playing the matchup right but it helps the scene grow to try and tackle matchups like that rather than just write them off bc so and so said they're almost unwinnable.

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

Also the only cage vs kitana ever in mk9 history Wassssssssssssss Gga dizzy vs Gga BIT

Ill take their words any day in that MU
Awful example for argument

 

[Sajam]

Tyrant also got blown up by NW at a major but BDK did work at the clan tournament against a Nightwing recently. Someone obviously isn't playing the matchup right but it helps the scene grow to try and tackle matchups like that rather than just write them off bc so and so said they're almost unwinnable.

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

What NW blew up Tyrant? The only NW I know of that beat him in tournament was me lol.

And Murk said he didn't know the Grundy matchup, so I posted a massive post giving him information. It doesn't sound like the MU is being passed off at all. Murk lost in a MU he felt like he didn't know, so I tried to help him learn it. Sounds like the community is moving forward in a much more positive note than the shit storm in this thread.

 

[rev0lver]

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

I agree, but 16bit hasn't given up. He's played the match out a million times. They've probably played this matchup more than most people have played any matchup. Those two are constantly trying to elevate the meta of it and have tried out every piece of tech that they can, but with everything that happens Bane ends up on top. I think at a point we just have to accept something.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Tyrant also got blown up by NW at a major but BDK did work at the clan tournament against a Nightwing recently. Someone obviously isn't playing the matchup right but it helps the scene grow to try and tackle matchups like that rather than just write them off bc so and so said they're almost unwinnable.

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Also the only cage vs kitana ever in mk9 history Wassssssssssssss Gga dizzy vs Gga BIT

Ill take their words any day in that MU
Awful example for argument

Except long before Dizzy started doing work against 16 Bit, 16 Bit and co. were calling Foxy a fucking fool for even suggesting Cage stood a chance.

Awful attempt at a blow-up.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

We give up on people who want to discuss insanity by taking an online player word vs a 3x Evo placer and a player w 29+ top 8s

GTFO here

Hence illuminati is born

At least when we discuss insanity as opposed to you Evo/top 8 placers doing it, it doesn't result in what's left of Scorpion lol. #Illuminati

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Except long before Dizzy started doing work against 16 Bit, 16 Bit and co. were calling Foxy a fucking fool for even suggesting Cage stood a chance.

Awful attempt at a blow-up.

Inb4 head trauma

But before head injury we knew where that was headed

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Inb4 head trauma

But before head injury we knew where that was headed

Yes blowing him up for that incident is relevant to him declaring The Cage - Kitana matchup was better than 2-8 long before anybody else wanted to buy it. Go listen to like the 3rd KTP, champ. It's embarrassing how hard some top players try to shut people down only to end up wrong in the end.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Yes blowing him up for that incident is relevant to him declaring The Cage - Kitana matchup was better than 2-8 long before anybody else wanted to buy it. Go listen to like the 3rd KTP, champ. It's embarrassing how hard some top players try to shut people down only to end up wrong in the end.

Uh no

I'll pass

It's funny how some people take unproven players words over 3x Evo placers(not me)

 

[juicepouch]

Can I count the Grundy community as a whole for HG up players?


I just want the fighting to end

This is a serious question and I want a serious answer. What the fuck am I supposed to do to stop HG from fucking flying around like a dick? @anygrundy/hgmainswhohaveanyideas

any time I play a HG that just flies around i feel like I can't do anything, MB Swamp hands needs an air variant lol

 

[Fromundaman]

*Looks around*

Oh... I may be in the wrong thread. I thought this was an upplayer's thread...


On the new topic:

I think my least favorite thing about discussing MUs in Injustice while I played was the fixation on the MU number. I sat there trying to explain the Grundy MU and people cared more about the fact that my number wasn't right. Like I have offline experience playing Tyrant in like 1000 games, since him and I would sit at super playing 100 games an hour and discussing the MU. Who cares what the MU number is, it's more important to discuss the actual MU and how it plays out.

It's pretty clear that Bane shits on Catwoman, whether it's really fucked up or super extra fucked up doesn't matter. What matters is that at a high level you will never consistently win bad MUs unless there is a huge difference between the level of skill between the players, an incredible lack of MU knowledge, or you play like an absolute god in a MU that is hard but not impossible.

Holy shit yes this!

This right here has gotten me to stop discussing MUs entirely since people spend more time arguing numbers than sharing anything of value that I can use in the matchup.

 

[juicepouch]

I think my least favorite thing about discussing MUs in Injustice while I played was the fixation on the MU number. I sat there trying to explain the Grundy MU and people cared more about the fact that my number wasn't right. Like I have offline experience playing Tyrant in like 1000 games, since him and I would sit at super playing 100 games an hour and discussing the MU. Who cares what the MU number is, it's more important to discuss the actual MU and how it plays out.

It's pretty clear that Bane shits on Catwoman, whether it's really fucked up or super extra fucked up doesn't matter. What matters is that at a high level you will never consistently win bad MUs unless there is a huge difference between the level of skill between the players, an incredible lack of MU knowledge, or you play like an absolute god in a MU that is hard but not impossible.

good post.

 

[16 Bit]

Tyrant also got blown up by NW at a major but BDK did work at the clan tournament against a Nightwing recently. Someone obviously isn't playing the matchup right but it helps the scene grow to try and tackle matchups like that rather than just write them off bc so and so said they're almost unwinnable.

If we all just gave up on matchups like that because top players declared them garbage would we ever have seen Cage get in on Kitana?

Who's giving up? I try my best, read everything I can, and ask for help in these MU constantly. What am I supposed to do when the opposing talking points are basically "do what you're doing, but better, because you're a bad player"?

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Who's giving up? I try my best, read everything I can, and ask for help in these MU constantly. What am I supposed to do when the opposing talking points are basically "do what you're doing, but better, because you're a bad player"?

You're the top Bane up-player according to this thread though, and that's a major accomplishment when you have delusional children running around declaring him essentially the next MMH.

All joking aside though I don't even disagree with you that Catwoman loses that bad. I just think people who do vehemently disagree deserve the time of day, even if they're less proven. I've never played you and I'm under no delusions that you wouldn't probably kick my ass, but until then the only Catwoman I've played who gave my Bane any semblance of trouble was Ra Helios, and some of his points about how she outranges him in the neutral do make sense to me. At least I think it's possible he's not entirely full of shit.

He's an (unproven) great player but to this community he's a walking joke because he disagrees with a proven great player and I don't think that's cool. And when I see Murk taking the same stance and getting shitted on for it too even though he's a better Nightwing than any of those I've played who HAVE placed, it just doesn't sit well. At least you're pretty respectful about it, though.

Truth be told, I don't even care who's right. Every character I play bodies Catwoman pretty free lol.

 

[Doombawkz]

You're the top Bane up-player according to this thread though, and that's a major accomplishment when you have delusional children running around declaring him essentially the next MMH.

All joking aside though I don't even disagree with you that Catwoman loses that bad. I just think people who do vehemently disagree deserve the time of day, even if they're less proven. I've never played you and I'm under no delusions that you wouldn't probably kick my ass, but until then the only Catwoman I've played who gave my Bane any semblance of trouble was Ra Helios, and some of his points about how she outranges him in the neutral do make sense to me. At least I think it's possible he's not entirely full of shit.

He's an (unproven) great player but to this community he's a walking joke because he disagrees with a proven great player and I don't think that's cool. And when I see Murk taking the same stance and getting shitted on for it too even though he's a better Nightwing than any of those I've played who HAVE placed, it just doesn't sit well. At least you're pretty respectful about it, though.

Truth be told, I don't even care who's right. Every character I play bodies Catwoman pretty free lol.

Yeah well what do you know? You don't even have as many seeding point as I do.
Who even are you?


The reason people talk down to him isn't because he disagrees with bit, its because his view on the MU is very slanted.
He ignores very vital parts of the MU, claiming rebuttals that simply aren't applicable in the actual match.
That's about it. Do his points make sense? Sure, but saying something and actually doing it consistently is apples and oranges.
Trust experience, not assumptions.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Yeah well what do you know? You don't even have as many seeding point as I do.
Who even are you?


The reason people talk down to him isn't because he disagrees with bit, its because his view on the MU is very slanted.
He ignores very vital parts of the MU, claiming rebuttals that simply aren't applicable in the actual match.
That's about it. Do his points make sense? Sure, but saying something and actually doing it consistently is apples and oranges.
Trust experience, not assumptions.

What I've heard from the other side makes even less sense though. Dash-up d2 and walking forward into command grab range (and popping trait already prior) don't sound like they'd beat proper scouting from a Catwoman who outranges all of that with jb2, b3, mbb3 if necessary, and can whiff punish with f1 or whatever her overhead is. It's always what can Catwoman do from jump range, not what does Bane have to do from there. She hits pretty hard too and can check Bane at range.

And again, "easier said than done" makes sense to me. I'm not saying it's as easy as just jb2'ing on reaction without fail. I'm just saying I was told Bane can d2 in close off of negative frames or walk forward while she walks back. Neither of those seem like viable neutral strategies for Bane any more so than what Ra is saying are sound strategies for Catwoman.

 

[16 Bit]

I don't know how I can explain it to make more sense. If she is walking back then his walk forward is so fast he gains ground on her quickly. This means he doesn't have to commit to a jump or a dash to gain the ground. If she is jumping back to avoid the neutral game then it loses to him barging. So if he needs to approach he just walks forward. Very soon she will have to take a risk to keep him out.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I don't know how I can explain it to make more sense. If she is walking back then his walk forward is so fast he gains ground on her quickly. This means he doesn't have to commit to a jump or a dash to gain the ground. If she is jumping back to avoid the neutral game then it loses to him barging. So if he needs to approach he just walks forward. Very soon she will have to take a risk to keep him out.

What do those who disagree with you not get? Maybe there should be a podcast made that strictly explains footsies, because if people don't see how he destroys her in the footsies game, which makes it hard for to do anything from the jump........ smh. Catwoman vs bane in footsies is like cyrax vs jade, the footsie games are hella lopsided.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

If she is jumping back to avoid the neutral game then it loses to him barging.

So you're telling me that I can Barge on reaction to your jump back and it will catch you out of that same jump? Jb2, empty jump, whatever? Reactionary Barge will beat it?

Also, does this evade chart still apply?

Bane
Specials

• Body press(L)- Full combo punishable
• Raging charge(H)- Full combo punishable
• Double Punch(H)- Full combo punishable
• Venom uppercut(H)- Full combo punishable

Just asking because I don't ever really see footsies command grabs baited and punished with it. Among many other things.

And MIT, nobody is saying Bane doesn't out-footsies Catwoman. I'm just playing devil's advocate for Ra Helios' one claim that well-timed jb2's do a lot to keep him in check because it hasn't really been countered yet, unless you count being told that a move with 32 frames of start-up that's full combo punishable on whiff, evade, or mbb3 is beating a jump back on reaction.