Match-up Discussion WhiteBoi's Doomsday MU Chart

[RM Truth]

I believe if she goes for a Wing Evade wake up and you reverse it, she does it behind you which gets her out of the corner for free.

Hmm. You could make a sick read and air grab her back into the corner? That would be tight to see.

 

[cR_whiteboi]

Good to know.

Think you will be up for some Doomsday mirrors at CEO? Not a MM or anything, just some casuals. I'd like to see how I stack up. I'm pretty sure I'll get blown up, but I'd still like to give it a shot.

For sure man. Just hit me up during the weekend

 

[Eldriken]

Hmm. You could make a sick read and air grab her back into the corner? That would be tight to see.

I don't know if there's enough time, in all honesty. I'll have to set her to Wing Evade wake up in practice mode and test it out.

I don't think you can reverse her wake up Mace Charge either.

 

[RM Truth]

I don't know if there's enough time, in all honesty. I'll have to set her to Wing Evade wake up in practice mode and test it out.

I don't think you can reverse her wake up Mace Charge either.

Wing Evade by itself is pretty slow. I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

 

[Error404]

DD vs KF is very far from 5-5
its 4-6 at best , and by far his worst MU

 

[Eldriken]

Wing Evade by itself is pretty slow. I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

Gonna load up Injustice on my PC now and see what I can come up with.

 

[RiBBz22]

MylesWright said before nobody wants to travel and compete with mediocre Killer Frost to only get mediocre or bad results from tournament placing.

No Killer Frost players at UFGT and MLG Anaheim? Probably none at this CEO and EVO?

Maybe he is right no Killer Frost players are willing to spend money for a flight ticket, book a hotel and compete with top players to prove themselves.

But but but.... she has Slide, Vortex 50/50, MBParry?

Slide is -4 blocked and baited with jump back or MB B3, Vortex requires meter management and it's not as easy to open up turtling players, Parry can be baited punished, grab and nj on read.

By the looks of those, Doomsday is capable of doing that with reads, option to bait and mess with her wake ups, use interactables depending on stage, play his corner game. When Killer Frost loses a massive life lead with time running out, she can be lamed out hardcore then she takes huge risks to get in such as sliding and air dashing. Ice Daggers that can be ducked and an unsafe Iceberg won't do her any good against an extremely patient player, any character really in general. Yes, she has an answer for all of Doomsday options but he also has counter attacks on her options as well. He has to play differently, tone down his momentum, play less risky and more safe when approaching this particular character but that doesn't mean "Killer Frost wins that match up free" she has advantage but Doomsday can work around his game plan.

The point is all this argumentative theory fighting over the Internet is not doing any good for the character Killer Frost. She is probably just a mid-tier and fair character.

WhiteBoi has it 5-5 so now it's up to the Killer Frost players to show up and prove yourselves at the upcoming tournaments he will be also attending.

Again, silly logic IMO. I could lose 100-0 against Whiteboi or beat him 100-0 and I would still think nothing different of the MU unless I discovered something new about the character(s) during it. Tournament results don't really play much of a factor at all in the way I feel and think about MU's. I am not a prisoner of the moment, and give credit to the players more than their characters.

 

[Eldriken]

Wing Evade by itself is pretty slow. I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

Doesn't work. Wing Evade doesn't go high enough in the air for Air Snatch to work. Doomsday autocorrects himself to face her when using it, it just doesn't do anything.

 

[RM Truth]

Doesn't work. Wing Evade doesn't go high enough in the air for Air Snatch to work. Doomsday autocorrects himself to face her when using it, it just doesn't do anything.

Oh well. I think I'm going to be playing more Doomsday at GBS for awhile.

 

[Eldriken]

Oh well. I think I'm going to be playing more Doomsday at GBS for awhile.

But @Tm_whiteboi is right. A slightly delayed d2 blows up a Mace Charge wake up and f2/d2 blow up a Wing Evade wake up.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I agree with Whiteboi. DD most likely has an advantage against HG. It's not a runaway or anything, it's not free, but I believe DD does indeed have the advantage.

Like many of DDs MUs, get her to the corner and it's a pack up. Also, there are countless ways to decimate her wakeups as doomsday, not just d2. That is the EZ part of the MU and why he has the advantage.

 

[RTM2004]

Again, silly logic IMO. I could lose 100-0 against Whiteboi or beat him 100-0 and I would still think nothing different of the MU unless I discovered something new about the character(s) during it. Tournament results don't really play much of a factor at all in the way I feel and think about MU's. I am not a prisoner of the moment, and give credit to the players more than their characters.

Why aren't you out there in the tournament scene representing close to extinction Killer Frost?

Killer Frost vs Doomsday on paper or should I say in textbook is nothing of actual gameplay in the real setting. College textbook material vs Applying knowledge in the real world.

Just because Killer Frost has a Slide, Vortex 50/50, MB Parry, great F3, good D2 solid tools is not the same being applied to actual high level play. In a real match she lacks footsies given short range normals which is why she is forced to slide and air dash or walk despite it being slow even worse her forward dash long recovery. She lacks air control and no access to interactable use compared to power characters unless she is on certain stages. Her wake ups can be baited, her blocked slide will put in her the post-slide guessing game sometimes will be in her favor, her vortex 50/50 requires meter management she may need it for wagering clash or if her opponent clashed after she burnt nearly all her meter. Life lead in majority of her match ups is important and she can struggle hard time getting it back on defensive turtles, she can be lamed out hardcore by characters like Cyborg, Martian Manhunter, Bane, Zod, Hawkgirl, Harley Quinn, Raven, Aquaman, Black Adam, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Solomon Grundy. In this case, if Doomsday had the massive life lead he can lame her out and basically let Killer Frost hang herself as he stops her types of offense. All these factors is not the same as theory crafting on paper textbook definition: Killer Frost beats Doomsday 7-3, it just doesn't work that way.

Killer Frost vs Doomsday
Textbook definition: 7-3
Real World Experience: 5-5 or 6-4 (Although it has not happened yet)

 

[cR_whiteboi]

Why aren't you out there in the tournament scene representing close to extinction Killer Frost?

Killer Frost vs Doomsday on paper or should I say in textbook is nothing of actual gameplay in the real setting. College textbook material vs Applying knowledge in the real world.

Just because Killer Frost has a Slide, Vortex 50/50, MB Parry, great F3, good D2 solid tools is not the same being applied to actual high level play. In a real match she lacks footsies given short range normals which is why she is forced to slide and air dash or walk despite it being slow even worse her forward dash long recovery. She lacks air control and no access to interactable use compared to power characters unless she is on certain stages. Her wake ups can be baited, her blocked slide will put in her the post-slide guessing game sometimes will be in her favor, her vortex 50/50 requires meter management she may need it for wagering clash or if her opponent clashed after she burnt nearly all her meter. Life lead in majority of her match ups is important and she can struggle hard time getting it back on defensive turtles, she can be lamed out hardcore by characters like Cyborg, Martian Manhunter, Bane, Zod, Hawkgirl, Harley Quinn, Raven, Aquaman, Black Adam, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Solomon Grundy. In this case, if Doomsday had the massive life lead he can lame her out and basically let Killer Frost hang herself as he stops her types of offense. All these factors is not the same as theory crafting on paper textbook definition: Killer Frost beats Doomsday 7-3, it just doesn't work that way.

Killer Frost vs Doomsday
Textbook definition: 7-3
Real World Experience: 5-5 or 6-4 (Although it has not happened yet)

I've never seen you post before, but I like you

 

[@MylesWright_]

Lol at Killer Frost forums stating she wins 7-3

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

I agree with all of whitboi's numbers cuz hes the best DD....hold dat

He won't see me in Martian/Hawkgirl money matches though. Hold that. @Tm_whiteboi

 

[cR_whiteboi]

He won't see me in Martian/Hawkgirl money matches though. Hold that.

Brah I got all those dollar bills. Remember our ufgt mm? Secretly my GL is good

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Brah I got all those dollar bills. Remember our ufgt mm? Secretly my GL is good

Yo GL/Hawkgirl is so hard though. I should work on my Lobo for EVO.

 

[WannabePlayer]

@Tm_whiteboi, could you explain the reasoning behind Doomsday-Ares being a 6-4?

 

[Rickyraws]

Guys pls.The chart is solid and thoughtful. Everyone needs to....


.....

....

....

Well.......Chill

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

@Tm_whiteboi, could you explain the reasoning behind Doomsday-Ares being a 6-4?

What normals does Ares have to deal with DD once he's in? Even if he blocks a d1 ES I can just stick out another d1 ES for free cause all of his normals are ass. He probably has the worst wake up teleport in the game so it's super easy to punish him for trying it, and his zoning tools are garbage because I can MB venom through them from pretty much any point on the screen and punish. Sure you hit for 50% but it's not more than any other character I have to deal with. Ares doesn't scare me in the slightest. I might have put 7-3.

 

[cR_whiteboi]

@Tm_whiteboi, could you explain the reasoning behind Doomsday-Ares being a 6-4?

I was gonna reply in the morning, but basically what brad said.

 

[Eldriken]

@Tm_whiteboi Thanks to your lovely tips, I made about 3-4 Hawkgirl players rage quit yesterday 'cause they couldn't do anything after I knocked them down mid screen or in the corner.

 

[Rickyraws]

@Tm_whiteboi I'm a pretty wealthy man, so don't be shy. How much money will it take to get a team battle going that consists of you and @Srryimwhte vs EX Black man and @Blackula ?

 

[Qwark28]

What normals does Ares have to deal with DD once he's in? Even if he blocks a d1 ES I can just stick out another d1 ES for free cause all of his normals are ass. He probably has the worst wake up teleport in the game so it's super easy to punish him for trying it, and his zoning tools are garbage because I can MB venom through them from pretty much any point on the screen and punish. Sure you hit for 50% but it's not more than any other character I have to deal with. Ares doesn't scare me in the slightest. I might have put 7-3.

While all these are true, you won't punish his MB teleport ever. Shit recovers before he's on screen.

 

[Phosferrax]

Her wake ups can be baited, her blocked slide will put in her the post-slide guessing game sometimes will be in her favor, her vortex 50/50 requires meter management she may need it for wagering clash or if her opponent clashed after she burnt nearly all her meter.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you said, this is just stating the obvious and not helping the argument at all. Her wake-ups can be baited? Great, so can everyones it doesn't mean anything, and the thing about the slide is ridiculous. How have some people managed to turn her slide which is such an unbelievably good move into something that is mediocre, or by some KF's opinions bad for KF.