Question How is Nightwing bad in the current meta?

[HeroesNZ]

I never said they were predictable or didn't understand their options (what is it with everyone saying that I said something I didn't say?)
How is me getting 7% chip and you getting free pressure/18 more frames to do something before me in my favour?
That's true, I do have mb shield bash and it too is plus and it gives me the opportunity to delay it. Difference is, I don't build enough meter after four of them for a 5th one and I don't do 7% chip each time lol
Well I never said I knew NW better, of course I don't, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that NW has a hell of a lot of plus frames to work with and options you guys don't seem to take notice of when talking about him for some reason. If you actually talked about the flaws in his options then maybe I'd be like "fine, fair enough" but all you're doing is saying "oh he has no options though" or "his options suck" or something along the lines of that. Do you see where I'm having trouble believing you guys? I'm going on facts here, based on the in-game frame data, and from having spent a little time in practice with him myself. That's all

We've all talked about the flaws... 112 is backdashable and the first hit is high. Escrima D1 is +3 but any follow up can be 6f D1 poked or backdashed. D12 is +5 but any follow up can be backdashed or poked unless you D12 from point blank, in which F2 which is 10f can't be poked out of. B112 is +2 but he doesn't get anything from it. MB Flipkick is +1 but any follow up can be backdashed. MB Wingding is hella plus but he doesn't get anything from it.

I can't be arsed to point out the flaws in staff again.

Which is why you don't always do b2~flipkick... *facepalms* are you forgetting about the fact your own character can cancel into specials other than flipkick? It's called mixing it up.

This is a typical thing a non-Nightwing main would say. B2 xx Flipkick is the only special worth cancelling into, unless you wanna do B2 xx Escrima Fury. Anything else has a huge gap that can be poked out of and full combo punished.

You keep going on and on about Staff Spin, so I'll break it down for you. Yes, you get 5 spins for 4 bars. Will you ever get to use this in a match? Probably not. Nightwing uses a ton of meter for zoning and rushdown so chances are you will not have 4 bars at the same time your opponent has 0. Yes, it does good chip damage, but it leaves you at -6 which is very bad especially in certain MUs. Yes, you can MB it to be +18. Is this good for more pressure? Yes. Are you going to gain anything from this pressure versus a good opponent? No. Why? Because there is no mixup after it unless you're in the corner where the constant plus frames are super hard to deal with.

Now WoWo on the other hand, gets 50/50s, interactable OTGs, more OTGs, and 40+ meterless damage. Knowing this, do you still insist that Nightwing's frame-traps are better than WoWo's? I'm not downplaying Nightwing by any means, I'm just telling it how it is. Nightwing is an awesome character with great frame-traps, but his frame-traps lead to a lot less than WoWo's.

 

[Shaazzyam]

We've all talked about the flaws... 112 is backdashable and the first hit is high. Escrima D1 is +3 but any follow up can be 6f D1 poked or backdashed. D12 is +5 but any follow up can be backdashed or poked unless you D12 from point blank, in which F2 which is 10f can't be poked out of. B112 is +2 but he doesn't get anything from it. MB Flipkick is +1 but any follow up can be backdashed. MB Wingding is hella plus but he doesn't get anything from it.

I can't be arsed to point out the flaws in staff again.

This is a typical thing a non-Nightwing main would say. B2 xx Flipkick is the only special worth cancelling into, unless you wanna do B2 xx Escrima Fury. Anything else has a huge gap that can be poked out of and full combo punished.

You keep going on and on about Staff Spin, so I'll break it down for you. Yes, you get 5 spins for 4 bars. Will you ever get to use this in a match? Probably not. Nightwing uses a ton of meter for zoning and rushdown so chances are you will not have 4 bars at the same time your opponent has 0. Yes, it does good chip damage, but it leaves you at -6 which is very bad especially in certain MUs. Yes, you can MB it to be +18. Is this good for more pressure? Yes. Are you going to gain anything from this pressure versus a good opponent? No. Why? Because there is no mixup after it unless you're in the corner where the constant plus frames are super hard to deal with.

Now WoWo on the other hand, gets 50/50s, interactable OTGs, more OTGs, and 40+ meterless damage. Knowing this, do you still insist that Nightwing's frame-traps are better than WoWo's? I'm not downplaying Nightwing by any means, I'm just telling it how it is. Nightwing is an awesome character with great frame-traps, but his frame-traps lead to a lot less than WoWo's.

A solid explaination on why NW isn't as great as people think. Yes...very good, Chibi.


Now we should move on to teaching people how to deal with Flying G and then call it a day.

 

[Youphemism]

We've all talked about the flaws... 112 is backdashable and the first hit is high. Escrima D1 is +3 but any follow up can be 6f D1 poked or backdashed. D12 is +5 but any follow up can be backdashed or poked unless you D12 from point blank, in which F2 which is 10f can't be poked out of. B112 is +2 but he doesn't get anything from it. MB Flipkick is +1 but any follow up can be backdashed. MB Wingding is hella plus but he doesn't get anything from it.

I can't be arsed to point out the flaws in staff again.

This is a typical thing a non-Nightwing main would say. B2 xx Flipkick is the only special worth cancelling into, unless you wanna do B2 xx Escrima Fury. Anything else has a huge gap that can be poked out of and full combo punished.

You keep going on and on about Staff Spin, so I'll break it down for you. Yes, you get 5 spins for 4 bars. Will you ever get to use this in a match? Probably not. Nightwing uses a ton of meter for zoning and rushdown so chances are you will not have 4 bars at the same time your opponent has 0. Yes, it does good chip damage, but it leaves you at -6 which is very bad especially in certain MUs. Yes, you can MB it to be +18. Is this good for more pressure? Yes. Are you going to gain anything from this pressure versus a good opponent? No. Why? Because there is no mixup after it unless you're in the corner where the constant plus frames are super hard to deal with.

Now WoWo on the other hand, gets 50/50s, interactable OTGs, more OTGs, and 40+ meterless damage.

Well firstly, thanks.
112, the first hit is a high but is there really reason to block low against Escrima NW besides his reactable ground spark?
Is Nightwings j3 not 7 frames? Could you not do d1 j3~wingdings (MB) to counter pokes or catch backdashes?
^ Same with d12? Could it not also be trait cancelled into something to keep frame advantage since it's +5?
^^ same with b112? Lol
Again, could you not catch backdashes with j3/wingdings/j3~wingdings?

That's my point, you make it sound like b2~flipkick is his only viable option, and so everyone's going to expect that (or as you say b2~df2) and counter it however they can. I could just as easily call you out if you said "Batgirl's braindead, all you need to do is vortex" and say that's something a non-BG man says. The answer is that you don't just do that, you have other options you can use, even if they are - on block. Mixing it up all the time is crucial and sometimes taking a risk is what you need to do to mess with your opponent by, in the case of Nightwing, say cancelling b2 into a different special or not cancelling the b2 at all.

All in all, staff spin is pretty good is all I'm saying.

WoWo only gets a combo off of b2 if the opponent is right next to her though, and it isn't exactly the easiest thing to get that link consistently.
Nightwing must have a 50/50 of some sort because Saucy Jack included it as part of his blocking the 50/50 challenge thing.
Every character if not most characters have some sort of interactable OTG...
Her divebomb does OTG yes but it only leads to a combo if you MB it and you're near the corner.
Yeah, 40% meterless damage is great. You should try it sometime

Lastly, these aren't meant to be some sort of proclamation of the almightiness of Nightwang, I'm just saying he has a bit more than you give him credit for. My above suggetions are just suggestions, if they aren't doable I'd like to know why of course

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Well firstly, thanks.
112, the first hit is a high but is there really reason to block low against Escrima NW besides his reactable ground spark?
Is Nightwings j3 not 7 frames? Could you not do d1 j3~wingdings (MB) to counter pokes or catch backdashes?
^ Same with d12? Could it not also be trait cancelled into something to keep frame advantage since it's +5?
^^ same with b112? Lol
Again, could you not catch backdashes with j3/wingdings/j3~wingdings?

That's my point, you make it sound like b2~flipkick is his only viable option, and so everyone's going to expect that (or as you say b2~df2) and counter it however they can. I could just as easily call you out if you said "Batgirl's braindead, all you need to do is vortex" and say that's something a non-BG man says. The answer is that you don't just do that, you have other options you can use, even if they are - on block. Mixing it up all the time is crucial and sometimes taking a risk is what you need to do to mess with your opponent by, in the case of Nightwing, say cancelling b2 into a different special or not cancelling the b2 at all.

All in all, staff spin is pretty good is all I'm saying.

WoWo only gets a combo off of b2 if the opponent is right next to her though, and it isn't exactly the easiest thing to get that link consistently.
Nightwing must have a 50/50 of some sort because Saucy Jack included it as part of his blocking the 50/50 challenge thing.
Every character if not most characters have some sort of interactable OTG...
Her divebomb does OTG yes but it only leads to a combo if you MB it and you're near the corner.
Yeah, 40% meterless damage is great. You should try it sometime

Lastly, these aren't meant to be some sort of proclamation of the almightiness of Nightwang, I'm just saying he has a bit more than you give him credit for. My above suggetions are just suggestions, if they aren't doable I'd like to know why of course

1. d1 into j3 wingdings is only good if u know your opponent likes to counter poke, it'd be much safer just to do d1 d12 for the frame trap though. instant air j3 is punishable on block, as well as wingdings (if not MBd) so YES, he can do it, but there are better options to cover it.

2. d12 trait cancels are only safe into staff spin, ground pound can be beat out with most d1/d2's in the game. Also b112 isn't cancelable, only b1 and b11 are, which hold no significant cancel advantage to either.

3. yes it is possible to catch MOST characters backdashes with wingdings or j3 after pressure, j3 being the better option though, as wingdings are punishable from closer ranges and easier to anti air (long start up and active frames makes dashing under very possible) j3 just simply has a better hitbox for jumping in.

4. b2 into flip kick is NOT his only option, but everything else off of b2 is punishable, even mashing d2 can catch b2 flip kick most times. although, b2 is his furthest reaching normal in escrima, so it's good to use. me personally, i normally dont cancel my b2s into flip kick, i dont see it being worth it everytime. you are correct though, training your opponent to always block b2 flip kick will open up the door to other mix ups, but if they are any good at reacting, it's highly likely Nightwing will be poked out of b2 pressure.

anyway. As you know WoWo gets a free lasso grab after b2 from ALL ranges, which results into a hard knockdown and BETTER okizeme game than NW has. NW has no TRUE 50/50, Saucy Jack believes after MB staff Spin stand 2 or ground pound is a high/low mix up, when it is VERY easy to fuzzy guard the stand 2 overhead. Her divebomb doesnt have to lead to a combo, because on hit it leads to a 50/50 and on block its slightly positive (and you HAVE to respect WoWos frames).

what makes WoWo better than Nightwing? Well heres a few things.

1. Better mobility with airdash and IADG, she has a SLIGHTLY easier time with zoning than Nightwing.

2. Better high/low game back up by good frames. Most frame traps by WoWo can be backdashed, yes, but on read the backdash can be punished by b2 and it's active frames. Nightwing's b2 isn't active enough to catch most backdashes, nor does it have the range of WoWo's b2. Basically, if Nightwing had his own frames, but the high/low of WoWo, he would be better.

3. Better meterless damage leading into a stronger okizeme game. 40% meterless off of a low, 30% meterless situational off of an overhead (regardless, leads into a hard knockdown meterless), 35%ish from a successful wakeup attack. OTGs INTO 50/50s (one can argue supermans OTG itself is a 50/50, WoWo gets one AFTER she picks them up, on hit and mostly on block as well)

4. Can keep a lifelead better (shield stance against zoners to prevent chip) as well as stock pile meter to ALWAYS come out on top in the wager situations.

5. Gets up to 40% unclashable damage from any of her lows and overheads into super.

Without downplaying Nightwing, I can STRONGLY say that WoWo is simply a stronger character. she converts off of literally EVERYTHING into a hard knockdown mix up, as well as using meterless damage and stockpiling meter to prevent clashing.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Well firstly, thanks.
112, the first hit is a high but is there really reason to block low against Escrima NW besides his reactable ground spark?
Is Nightwings j3 not 7 frames? Could you not do d1 j3~wingdings (MB) to counter pokes or catch backdashes?
^ Same with d12? Could it not also be trait cancelled into something to keep frame advantage since it's +5?
^^ same with b112? Lol
Again, could you not catch backdashes with j3/wingdings/j3~wingdings?

That's my point, you make it sound like b2~flipkick is his only viable option, and so everyone's going to expect that (or as you say b2~df2) and counter it however they can. I could just as easily call you out if you said "Batgirl's braindead, all you need to do is vortex" and say that's something a non-BG man says. The answer is that you don't just do that, you have other options you can use, even if they are - on block. Mixing it up all the time is crucial and sometimes taking a risk is what you need to do to mess with your opponent by, in the case of Nightwing, say cancelling b2 into a different special or not cancelling the b2 at all.

All in all, staff spin is pretty good is all I'm saying.

WoWo only gets a combo off of b2 if the opponent is right next to her though, and it isn't exactly the easiest thing to get that link consistently.
Nightwing must have a 50/50 of some sort because Saucy Jack included it as part of his blocking the 50/50 challenge thing.
Every character if not most characters have some sort of interactable OTG...
Her divebomb does OTG yes but it only leads to a combo if you MB it and you're near the corner.
Yeah, 40% meterless damage is great. You should try it sometime

Lastly, these aren't meant to be some sort of proclamation of the almightiness of Nightwang, I'm just saying he has a bit more than you give him credit for. My above suggetions are just suggestions, if they aren't doable I'd like to know why of course

i applaud your efforts to show NW players their options. Your getting the same treatment I got when I first came here. Don't feel bad. Most people in the NW forums take everything the wrong way first.

I for one agree with you and think NW has great options off of his pressure. if I get in I'm going to do damage because everything is plus or will push you to the corner. Let me just say...YOUR RIGHT and all other NW players calling you out are just upset your saying their character is better than they think he is.

With the whole WW thing. Their pressure is just different. Her presure is one dimensional and revolves around instant air dashes out of + frames to keep things going when the opponent guesses right. NW is more about blockstrings, chip damage and footsies. In staff NW has = if not better footsies than WW.

NW players need to acknowledge his strengths and play to those more. Instead what I read is only saying everyone else is wrong and pointing out the negatives. reminds me of when I mained Grundy and thought NW could make waves.

Some forums never change.

 

[Youphemism]

1. d1 into j3 wingdings is only good if u know your opponent likes to counter poke, it'd be much safer just to do d1 d12 for the frame trap though. instant air j3 is punishable on block, as well as wingdings (if not MBd) so YES, he can do it, but there are better options to cover it.

2. d12 trait cancels are only safe into staff spin, ground pound can be beat out with most d1/d2's in the game. Also b112 isn't cancelable, only b1 and b11 are, which hold no significant cancel advantage to either.

3. yes it is possible to catch MOST characters backdashes with wingdings or j3 after pressure, j3 being the better option though, as wingdings are punishable from closer ranges and easier to anti air (long start up and active frames makes dashing under very possible) j3 just simply has a better hitbox for jumping in.

4. b2 into flip kick is NOT his only option, but everything else off of b2 is punishable, even mashing d2 can catch b2 flip kick most times. although, b2 is his furthest reaching normal in escrima, so it's good to use. me personally, i normally dont cancel my b2s into flip kick, i dont see it being worth it everytime. you are correct though, training your opponent to always block b2 flip kick will open up the door to other mix ups, but if they are any good at reacting, it's highly likely Nightwing will be poked out of b2 pressure.

anyway. As you know WoWo gets a free lasso grab after b2 from ALL ranges, which results into a hard knockdown and BETTER okizeme game than NW has. NW has no TRUE 50/50, Saucy Jack believes after MB staff Spin stand 2 or ground pound is a high/low mix up, when it is VERY easy to fuzzy guard the stand 2 overhead. Her divebomb doesnt have to lead to a combo, because on hit it leads to a 50/50 and on block its slightly positive (and you HAVE to respect WoWos frames).

what makes WoWo better than Nightwing? Well heres a few things.

1. Better mobility with airdash and IADG, she has a SLIGHTLY easier time with zoning than Nightwing.

2. Better high/low game back up by good frames. Most frame traps by WoWo can be backdashed, yes, but on read the backdash can be punished by b2 and it's active frames. Nightwing's b2 isn't active enough to catch most backdashes, nor does it have the range of WoWo's b2. Basically, if Nightwing had his own frames, but the high/low of WoWo, he would be better.

3. Better meterless damage leading into a stronger okizeme game. 40% meterless off of a low, 30% meterless situational off of an overhead (regardless, leads into a hard knockdown meterless), 35%ish from a successful wakeup attack. OTGs INTO 50/50s (one can argue supermans OTG itself is a 50/50, WoWo gets one AFTER she picks them up, on hit and mostly on block as well)

4. Can keep a lifelead better (shield stance against zoners to prevent chip) as well as stock pile meter to ALWAYS come out on top in the wager situations.

5. Gets up to 40% unclashable damage from any of her lows and overheads into super.

Without downplaying Nightwing, I can STRONGLY say that WoWo is simply a stronger character. she converts off of literally EVERYTHING into a hard knockdown mix up, as well as using meterless damage and stockpiling meter to prevent clashing.

1. 3. 4. Noted

2. Cool. For the b112 I meant could you not just do j3/wingdings/j3~wingdings after it? Lol

I would've said block high and react to the ground pound, since it has about 21 frames of startup...but yes on hit Wonder Woman CAN convert into lasso grab, but on block b2 is -5 and lasso grab is duckable :/

I KNOW Wonder Woman is better than Nightwing, I never said she wasn't and I main her so I understand why she's better, I was just discussing the frame data and tools/options of each character

 

[MortySeinfeld]

IMO, he's better in the current metagame than he was at release when Black Adam and Superman were rampant.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

1. 3. 4. Noted

2. Cool. For the b112 I meant could you not just do j3/wingdings/j3~wingdings after it? Lol

I would've said block high and react to the ground pound, since it has about 21 frames of startup...but yes on hit Wonder Woman CAN convert into lasso grab, but on block b2 is -5 and lasso grab is duckable :/

I KNOW Wonder Woman is better than Nightwing, I never said she wasn't and I main her so I understand why she's better, I was just discussing the frame data and tools/options of each character

b112 pushes too far back, it'd have to be a deep j3, which is possible, but it'll get AA'd by characters who have viable options. only thing you can really get from b113 is d12, and it has to be spaced correctly.

 

[BigMilk]

I never said they were predictable or didn't understand their options (what is it with everyone saying that I said something I didn't say?)
How is me getting 7% chip and you getting free pressure/18 more frames to do something before me in my favour?
That's true, I do have mb shield bash and it too is plus and it gives me the opportunity to delay it. Difference is, I don't build enough meter after four of them for a 5th one and I don't do 7% chip each time lol
Well I never said I knew NW better, of course I don't, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that NW has a hell of a lot of plus frames to work with and options you guys don't seem to take notice of when talking about him for some reason. If you actually talked about the flaws in his options then maybe I'd be like "fine, fair enough" but all you're doing is saying "oh he has no options though" or "his options suck" or something along the lines of that. Do you see where I'm having trouble believing you guys? I'm going on facts here, based on the in-game frame data, and from having spent a little time in practice with him myself. That's all

I understand you didn't say it directly but that's basically what you mean by what you are saying. I said if you pushblock its in your favor. By doing so you put us back in neutral and negate our ability to build meter. People have learned to deal with this even before the patch. Everyone has been trying to explain to you the flaws the while time and you respond like they don't know what they are talking about, like, just don't do it everytime lol or something of that nature. I also read plenty of posts stating that NW cancel advantage is bad making several of his options unsafe. You absolutely can not get away with it against someone who knows the matchup. But I will make things even clearer for you. Every string he has that can be cancelled into any special other than staffspin or flipkick can be interrupted except 33.

 

[Sajam]

NW plus frames aren't what help him in most situations. His strengths come in MUs where he can control neutral with his buttons/projectiles, and in the MUs where he can't do that he struggles.

Very rarely does NW's plus frames lead to more damage then he gets through playing neutral with defensive buttons or zoning.

 

[BigMilk]

@Youphemism @AK L0rdoftheFLY I don't think anyone(maybe a few) was upset at the fact he tried to show us options. What really happened was he compared them to WoWo options. Those that he stated, we simply told him what we get from them but he didn't believe us. The truth is, and there ready isn't any way around it, WoWo is better when it comes to options off of advantage frames, and has better mixups in general. This doesn't mean NW options are bad, just stating they are worse than hers.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Cycle these 3 if you want 112 to be part of your game.

• d1, 112 - Best option
• d1, 113 - Threat to counter of best option
• d12 - Check interrupts

 

[AssassiN]

i applaud your efforts to show NW players their options. Your getting the same treatment I got when I first came here. Don't feel bad. Most people in the NW forums take everything the wrong way first.

I for one agree with you and think NW has great options off of his pressure. if I get in I'm going to do damage because everything is plus or will push you to the corner. Let me just say...YOUR RIGHT and all other NW players calling you out are just upset your saying their character is better than they think he is.

With the whole WW thing. Their pressure is just different. Her presure is one dimensional and revolves around instant air dashes out of + frames to keep things going when the opponent guesses right. NW is more about blockstrings, chip damage and footsies. In staff NW has = if not better footsies than WW.

NW players need to acknowledge his strengths and play to those more. Instead what I read is only saying everyone else is wrong and pointing out the negatives. reminds me of when I mained Grundy and thought NW could make waves.

Some forums never change.

Not upset because he is saying that is pressure is better than we think it is, hell I wish it was.
It's because he is merely posting ideas he has without going into training mode, ideas we had a long time ago. Also saying that NW's frametraps are better than WoWo's did it.

If normals in Injustice did as much chip as in MK9 then his + frames would have helped him out a lot more.
But someone sitting on a lifelead doesn't need to take risk against NW, he just needs to wait it out and watch NW deplete his meter or until NW doesn't have any options anymore because of pushback.

 

[Braindead]

Do you see where I'm having trouble believing you guys? I'm going on facts here, based on the in-game frame data, and from having spent a little time in practice with him myself. That's all

Your problem there is that in-game frame data doesn't show you pushback.
If the frame data says a move is -8 but it pushes you out of d1 range would you call that unsafe?

That's what happens with NW most of the time, you look at the frame-data and you're like this guy has block-infinites! But in truth, nah.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Because he loses to me

 

[Braindead]

Because he loses to me

Scumbag Superman player.

Don't try to sell us that you are a big fan of him with all those shirts and hats when you go on stream, we all know you only picked him up because he was OP pre-patch.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not upset because he is saying that is pressure is better than we think it is, hell I wish it was.
It's because he is merely posting ideas he has without going into training mode, ideas we had a long time ago. Also saying that NW's frametraps are better than WoWo's did it.

If normals in Injustice did as much chip as in MK9 then his + frames would have helped him out a lot more.
But someone sitting on a lifelead doesn't need to take risk against NW, he just needs to wait it out and watch NW deplete his meter or until NW doesn't have any options anymore because of pushback.

Sounds exactly like the shit I heard back when I first came here.

Just saying

 

[Braindead]

Let's all be serious here.
NW has frame traps and could pull off some mixups and do some setups.
But what do we all really do when we play?

It's all J3 Wing Dings. It's the complete meta.

 

[HeroesNZ]

@Youphemism Wonder Woman has better frame-traps than Nightwing. That is a fact and there is no way you're gonna convince anyone otherwise. Nightwing has more frame-traps, but Wonder Woman's lead to more. What you're saying is what we've all thought about doing when the game first dropped, but over the past year we've realised aren't worth it from being poked out/punished for it countless times. Nobody in here is downplaying Nightwing or upplaying Wonder Woman, we're just telling you what works and what doesn't from experience after thousands of matches and countless hours in the lab. It might sound like we're just shitting on Nightwing but we're really not.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

@Youphemism Wonder Woman has better frame-traps than Nightwing. That is a fact and there is no way you're gonna convince anyone otherwise. Nightwing has more frame-traps, but Wonder Woman's lead to more. What you're saying is what we've all thought about doing when the game first dropped, but over the past year we've realised aren't worth it from being poked out/punished for it countless times. Nobody in here is downplaying Nightwing or upplaying Wonder Woman, we're just telling you what works and what doesn't from experience after thousands of matches and countless hours in the lab. It might sound like we're just shitting on Nightwing but we're really not.

It's like deja vu

 

[HeroesNZ]

It's like deja vu

You mean you also claimed WoWo has better frame-traps than Nightwing?

 

[Sajam]

You mean you also claimed WoWo has better frame-traps than Nightwing?

No he claimed staff footsies were super strong and then won using j3 wing dings.

I think claiming NW has better frame traps then WoWo without ever looking at the options they both get after is still a little bit more strange.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No he claimed staff footsies were super strong and then won using j3 wing dings.

I think claiming NW has better frame traps then WoWo without ever looking at the options they both get after is still a little bit more strange.

NAILED IT.

I'm not saying NW has better frame traps. I'm saying the attitude in which many people are arguing is a shade of when i came here.

At one point the argument was "NW has good frame traps" "no he doesn't you don't main him and have no experience"

This is more what I am referring to.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Btw @Sajam where can j find KI top 8 from ufgt

 

[Sajam]

Btw @Sajam where can j find KI top 8 from ufgt

It's pretty ridiculous btw